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UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/15/2010 9:14:09 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
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Status: offline 		US deficit for the year ended Sept 30th was US$1.294Tril, compared to 2009s US$1.416Tril...making the official projection for 2010 deficit of US$1.17Tril looking, if anything....pessimistic, as the US economy grows faster than previously projected.


In the UK the official projection for financial year 2010/11 is ~£150Bil, down from 2009/10s £159.8Bil, but as this was made (in June) before the spending review, and as the UKs economy has also grown faster than projected, somewhere less than £140Bil is seeming more likely.

Unemployment is also falling in both nations.

This general theme is repeated in most nations.

tl;dr - Good news. Doom mongers are wrong :)





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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/15/2010 9:24:24 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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Status: offline 		Cute Lady ... nice dog ...

But they must be giving you projections ... cause the projections ... don't match reality.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/15/2010 11:08:28 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		I'm sorry if you don't like those facts, perhaps if you wish real hard the world will change to suit your opinions.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/15/2010 11:19:31 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Yeah Woody,  welcome to the recovery-less recovery.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 4:02:20 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		That surprises me.  Please provide a link.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 5:05:03 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201010151414dowjonesdjonline000537&title=us-government-budget-deficit-in-fiscal-year-2010-shrinks-by-122-billion

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 9:13:18 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo
Cute Lady ... nice dog ...

Which is which?

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 10:20:13 AM   
DCWoody


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

That surprises me.  Please provide a link.


Which part?

Bear in mind the 'less than £140Bil' is my own number, although it is based on the actual figures for the year so far, which are smaller each month than the £150Bil projection projected.

I would have thought everything else would be fairly well spread around the news networks...

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 4:30:19 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Cute Lady ... nice dog ...

But they must be giving you projections ... cause the projections ... don't match reality.

These projections have more truth to them than anything the right has to contribute. Trust me...we are a whole lot better off now than we were in 1983 when it was 'morning in America again' under Ronnie boy. (unemploy. 10.8%)

Give us your 'reality' if you have something we are to take as more accurate.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 4:47:47 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Yeah Woody,  welcome to the recovery-less recovery.

You've struck me as a poster that understands that jobs have nothing whatever to do with recovery of the economy. You and everybody needs to understand that when profits are up, capital returns are up, profits and bonuses on wall street are flowing again...THAT is all that is necessary for capitalism to be a success.

Capitalism does not create jobs...it eliminates or exports jobs to the most skilled slaves. Capitalism doesn't need jobs, society needs jobs. Either you pay them a profit out-of-pocket or borrow the money or you can...go to jail or just die. As far as the capitalist is concerned...fuck you and your jobs.

Recall kinkroids, slaves had jobs...didn't do them much good ?

I suppose that the great capitalist proletariat must still get poorer and as the press and consultants reveal their cowardice in not telling us the real story. That private debt is going down $100's of millions per day. Until the US workforce is done with this debt...there is no economy for them.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/16/2010 4:57:28 PM >

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 5:30:10 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201010151414dowjonesdjonline000537&title=us-government-budget-deficit-in-fiscal-year-2010-shrinks-by-122-billion


Thanks for the link.  The article is dead wrong IMO, though.

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- The U.S. federal government budget deficit shrank in fiscal 2010, but the big gap was only $122 billion lower than the record high set a year ago.  Sounds simple.  The deficit shrank by $122 billion.
The U.S. spent $1.294 trillion more than it collected in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, the Treasury Department said Friday. Huh?  If it spent more than it collected, how did the deficit shrink?
The deficit amounted to 8.9% of gross domestic product. That's down from fiscal 2009, when the deficit of $1.416 trillion was 10.0% of GDP.  Now it's becoming clear. The RATE OF INCREASE of the deficit shrank.  The author defined the deficit as the difference between spending and revenues for the year.  But the deficit was augmented by $122 billion - it did not DECREASE to $122 billion.
------------
This is elementary calculus, in which the quantity (the deficit) is being confused with its derivative - the rate of change of the deficit.


So tell me - isn't the deficit defined as the difference between what we have and what we owe?  Did the nasdaq site actually make a basic blunder?



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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 6:54:08 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		DarkSteven....No, that's not what deficit means. The deficit is the difference between government revenues (ie taxation(mostly, some other sources)) and government spending. It's essentially the govt had to borrow (from government bonds, or other nations)....so the amount the national debt increased by.

Although it's worth noting that national debt is only really relevent in terms of GDP, not in nominal terms...so a deficit of less than GDP growth will actually reduce the national debt. A surplus (the govt getting more money in than it spends out) is best for paying off the debt of course...
I'll try to find a graph...ah hell, can't find a decent up to date one. Google it. Long and short of it is you're dead wrong (no offense).


< Message edited by DCWoody -- 10/16/2010 7:06:27 PM >

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 8:01:29 PM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		Yeah. Great news. Dims should score gains Nov 2.
If they could buy enough gas to get to the polls.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 8:42:54 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		"Yeah. Great news."

Yes. Yes it is.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 9:14:13 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

DarkSteven....No, that's not what deficit means. The deficit is the difference between government revenues (ie taxation(mostly, some other sources)) and government spending. It's essentially the govt had to borrow (from government bonds, or other nations)....so the amount the national debt increased by.

Although it's worth noting that national debt is only really relevent in terms of GDP, not in nominal terms...so a deficit of less than GDP growth will actually reduce the national debt. A surplus (the govt getting more money in than it spends out) is best for paying off the debt of course...
I'll try to find a graph...ah hell, can't find a decent up to date one. Google it. Long and short of it is you're dead wrong (no offense).



Ah,  I confused the deficit with the national debt.  The deficit is the derivative of the national debt.  Thanks for the explanation.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 9:26:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

DarkSteven....No, that's not what deficit means. The deficit is the difference between government revenues (ie taxation(mostly, some other sources)) and government spending. It's essentially the govt had to borrow (from government bonds, or other nations)....so the amount the national debt increased by.

Although it's worth noting that national debt is only really relevent in terms of GDP, not in nominal terms...so a deficit of less than GDP growth will actually reduce the national debt. A surplus (the govt getting more money in than it spends out) is best for paying off the debt of course...
I'll try to find a graph...ah hell, can't find a decent up to date one. Google it. Long and short of it is you're dead wrong (no offense).



Ah,  I confused the deficit with the national debt.  The deficit is the derivative of the national debt.  Thanks for the explanation.

No, the debt is the total amount owed. The deficit is the difference between the amount budgeted to be spent, and the actual amount spent. The deficit is not a derivative in the f(x)- delta x/ f(x) sense.


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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 9:35:16 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		"the deficit is the difference between the amount budgeted to be spent, and the actual amount spent."
No, the deficit is the difference between actual revenue and actual spending.

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 9:47:42 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"the deficit is the difference between the amount budgeted to be spent, and the actual amount spent."
No, the deficit is the difference between actual revenue and actual spending.



That's the impression I got as well.  If I read the article correctly, the deficit is the difference between actual spending and actual revenue, as you stated.  It is in fact be the derivative of the debt.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 9:57:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"the deficit is the difference between the amount budgeted to be spent, and the actual amount spent."
No, the deficit is the difference between actual revenue and actual spending.

You are right; I was wrong. I blame it on the Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: UK & US Deficits falling. - 10/16/2010 10:00:43 PM   
DCWoody


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Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		"It is in fact be the derivative of the debt." No idea what that means, but I think you're getting me now :)

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