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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/16/2010 5:56:09 PM   
jujubeeMB


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My Dom can attest to the fact that I will pretty much say whatever I want to say whenever I want to say it. I wouldn't be compatible with someone who didn't let me say everything I wanted to say, especially when the dynamic wasn't in full force. I honestly find those who won't hear a person out to be kind of insecure - is your opinion so weak that you can't even hear mine? Sure, maybe the decision will ultimately come down to my what my Dom wants to do, but he'd better let me express all that I have to express first. Or else he'd better be prepared to do something about the seething, rebellious attitude he's just created.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/16/2010 5:57:56 PM   
anniezz338


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Joined: 8/17/2010
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Be quiet about what? Chatty? Complaining? Relationship discussions? Being told to be quiet about unimportant and important things are very different.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/16/2010 6:10:25 PM   
WolfyMontgomery


Posts: 234
Joined: 9/28/2010
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LOL Animus!

Apparently I've mislaid mine too... and so has Master, since apparently according to some of the "True" Masters out there he doesn't train me right. >_> Bahahaha!


_____________________________

~Eleven

-A Wolf of a Different Color

Fear me and my Gleaming Metal Chompers of DOOM!
..........that means my braces. >_>

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/16/2010 6:11:46 PM   
trueshadow


Posts: 388
Joined: 1/1/2005
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Personally, I favor allowing a slave to speak his mind.  However, if she tells me to shut up, I'm going to do it if I am her slave. 

Of course, if something is dangerous (and it happens, though maybe not on 'vanilla night'), I am going to speak up.  I value my own self and my safety.

But that doesn't appear to be the case for you.

I suppose the situation is 'vanilla nights'.  I guess that makes you a part-time sub/slave.

You both need to get some agreement on the ground rules of your relationship.  If you were both vanilla (and maybe you are on 'vanilla nights'), I'd expect a woman to voice her opinion as well as a man would.  I'd say you are what might be termed a 'bedroom submissive', meaning that you play your roles only in regards to sex.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/16/2010 6:12:49 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Isn't there some sort of United Nations Charter of BDSM, wherein is specifically sets out the binding rules and bylaws of the International Brotherhood of Mastery?

I'm pretty sure there is; else why would people always ask "Can a sub do this or that", or "Shouldn't a Master do so and so", or even, "What is a True Slave?"

My copy seems to have been mislaid somewhere.



There is a joke in there about Miss Lay .... I just know there is.

To the OP:
Your relationship is yours.  Do you need to be able to speak?  What is it for you?  For me, I've become really clear about this.  Don't shush me.  Seriously.  Ever.  If I am speaking, during a serious time it's because it's something important.  To me (TO ME) it smacks of shaming me.  Perhaps it is one of my buttons?  Meh.  I'll just say I'm quirky and call it a day.

I remember watching a couple once.  He was the speaker at an event, and he relied on her to help him remember things if he forgot them.  They would be sitting next to each other, and she had this amazing way of very unobtrusively whispering key words to him if he forgot something.  It was always while the audience was laughing or moving chairs or something like that.  If there was no distraction, she'd write the word on a piece of paper and he'd glance down and see it.  She knew when it was ok to talk and when it wasn't.

That would be my style in a relationship where I trusted the man.  He wouldn't need to shush me.  I would read the energy / understand what was going on and respect it.  I would want only to be with a man who would know he can trust me and that he could trust my judgment in that respect. 

Best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/17/2010 7:52:30 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50






It does not affect a D/s dynamic - that's always available anytime I need it to be. And I've got nothing but memories of frustration and exasperation from two former subs whose default answer to everytime I sought input was "whatever you want/think"! Arrggghhhh!!!!!


Focus.



I have to tell you Focus that I've been known to do this. And it is always when he's in a bad mood and I can't figure out a way to say anything that he won't be upset about. If he's too upset to listen calmly, then I'm not offering myself up as a sacrificial goat to take his anger out on. I don't know if this may be relevant, but I thought I would offer up some food for thought.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/17/2010 2:50:03 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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What advice do you need exactly?

If I disagree, I disagree.....there's no *rights* attached to that.

Whether you decide to open your mouth when you've been told to be quiet is entirely up to you and him......... and the consequences of not knowing what's going on in your relationship are also up to you and him.

agirl

(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/17/2010 3:47:52 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

Be quiet about what? Chatty? Complaining? Relationship discussions? Being told to be quiet about unimportant and important things are very different.

annie, this said it was in response to me. Is that what you meant? If so, it would mean being quiet about disagreements after whatever it is has been discussed & His decision has been made.

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to anniezz338)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/17/2010 6:33:03 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Isn't there some sort of United Nations Charter of BDSM, wherein is specifically sets out the binding rules and bylaws of the International Brotherhood of Mastery?

I'm pretty sure there is; else why would people always ask "Can a sub do this or that", or "Shouldn't a Master do so and so", or even, "What is a True Slave?"

My copy seems to have been mislaid somewhere.



There is a joke in there about Miss Lay .... I just know there is.

To the OP:
Your relationship is yours.  Do you need to be able to speak?  What is it for you?  For me, I've become really clear about this.  Don't shush me.  Seriously.  Ever.  If I am speaking, during a serious time it's because it's something important.  To me (TO ME) it smacks of shaming me.  Perhaps it is one of my buttons?  Meh.  I'll just say I'm quirky and call it a day.

I remember watching a couple once.  He was the speaker at an event, and he relied on her to help him remember things if he forgot them.  They would be sitting next to each other, and she had this amazing way of very unobtrusively whispering key words to him if he forgot something.  It was always while the audience was laughing or moving chairs or something like that.  If there was no distraction, she'd write the word on a piece of paper and he'd glance down and see it.  She knew when it was ok to talk and when it wasn't.

That would be my style in a relationship where I trusted the man.  He wouldn't need to shush me.  I would read the energy / understand what was going on and respect it.  I would want only to be with a man who would know he can trust me and that he could trust my judgment in that respect. 

Best,
sunshine


That is the best explanation I think I have seen regarding this sunshine. I work for my Man in his company as his outside sales rep and in public relations, so obviously he puts a great deal of trust in my speaking ability as well as my common sense. I won't be shushed, and if he really needs to say something, he will just say to me "Ann, I need to speak to you, please don't interrupt and just listen." Of course I will, however, I can and do say the same to him. He actually prefers that I do the talking in sales meetings and with clients because I am more skilled at the art of negotiating than he is, but even in our home life, we have a pretty free and easy exchange. Of course, he won't tolerate disrespect and out of hand mouthiness, but I try to curb that anyway, even in anger. I am 44 years old not a child and I won't be told to not speak. We are not as structured though or as protocol oriented as some couples, but for us it works.

I think it comes down to what kind of woman does your man want. Mine wants me to be verbal, to express my opinions and even engage in debates and differing opinions with him. Respect is the key word, not being treated like a child.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/18/2010 2:32:27 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


It does not affect a D/s dynamic - that's always available anytime I need it to be. And I've got nothing but memories of frustration and exasperation from two former subs whose default answer to everytime I sought input was "whatever you want/think"! Arrggghhhh!!!!!



I have to tell you Focus that I've been known to do this. And it is always when he's in a bad mood and I can't figure out a way to say anything that he won't be upset about. If he's too upset to listen calmly, then I'm not offering myself up as a sacrificial goat to take his anger out on. I don't know if this may be relevant, but I thought I would offer up some food for thought.


That's fair enough.... Occasionally "walking on egg shells" because there's a grouch in the room is a looooong way from normal, habitual behaviour.

When I ask the girl what she thinks about something in particular, I really do wanna know what *she thinks*. I want input and that I'm really not just creating phony opportunities for her to stroke my precious ego.

Focus.


_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/18/2010 4:19:40 AM   
katsdf69


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i would like to Thank everyone for your kindness to reply to my question,, my Sir has read all of them, and we had a talk and it seems to be helping !! kat

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/18/2010 6:20:34 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: katsdf69

i would like to Thank everyone for your kindness to reply to my question,, my Sir has read all of them, and we had a talk and it seems to be helping !! kat


Yay!!!!


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/18/2010 7:33:14 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline
Greetings

Why are you asking us on this forum? There is not a BDSM Bible we all have to adhere to, a universal guidebook on how all kinky relationships should be, such a thing just do not exist. Every relationship is different and we here on this forum have no idea how you and your Dom like to do things. You have to ask your Dom if normal rules apply on vanilla night or not, he is the only one that that answer that for you, not us.

I wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/19/2010 7:25:24 AM   
shadesograye


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Joined: 2/9/2009
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i understand completely and applaud all the responses. 
     (1)  you and your Sir need to talk it all out - come to agreements on all aspects of Y/your relationship.
     (2)  there has to be vent time.  be it with a trigger phrase - such as "may i speak freely?"  or a "vanilla night".  all subs/slaves need to have the opportunity to express themselves without fear of adverse repercussions.
     (3)  that said, once you have expressed your opinion - your Sir has the final word.  if He listens to what you have to say - then He is making an informed decision.  depending on the arrangement/agreement/terms of your collar - you will have to abide by His decisions.
     (4)  and if Y/you still have issues with all that - then perhaps Y/you need to further clarify the relationship or move on.

(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/19/2010 9:13:35 AM   
littleone35


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Master allows me to speak. Actually we have a lively conversations when we disagree on something and both try to explain to the other why we take that stand on a particular matter. It can get very interesting. If Master has had enough and neither us is willing to back down on our stand and he wants me to shut up that is all he has to say. I will still have my own view point but the coneversation is over. We may re vidst it at a later time, but for the monent it is over he tells me to shut up i shut up.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to shadesograye)
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RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/19/2010 11:42:58 AM   
HisEvelyn


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Joined: 1/21/2010
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I'm another of the ones who is freely able to speak whenever I want, on all topics. Master enjoys my opinions and my spirit. However, if we have a disagreement and he says "Quiet" or "Shush"? I shut up real quick until he allows me to speak again. I also trust him deeply, and know that he is not shaming me or simply power-tripping when he does this. It's usually because I'm getting over-emotional to the point of repeating myself and not making sense, or because he needs a moment of quiet to better organize his thoughts.

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/19/2010 11:26:50 PM   
behavingbadly


Posts: 46
Joined: 8/15/2010
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i think (although i'm new to the lifestyle) you're allowed to have limits, and you're allowed to disagree per say but they always have the final say.

(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/20/2010 5:38:00 PM   
yessirmark


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/20/2010
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well, u seem like lots of fun

(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/22/2010 5:06:41 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline
You have every right to disagree. You may also want to think about how, or even if, you voice it.

If I disagree with my Master I will tell him that I respectfully disagree and ask permission to make my point. He knows that I will not do that unless I feel it is of some importance, and unless he is very busy will allow me to. If we still disagree his word goes.

Personally, I am happy with that. I am given the chance to share my point of view as long as it is in a non-complaining way. Because I follow his rules we have never once had an argument. There may be times when I still feel that he is wrong but I know better than to think that any two people will agree 100% on everything.

I know of some who simply cannot let something drop and will beat it into the ground - or until they earn a punishment.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Can i speak or not ??? - 10/22/2010 7:50:57 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: katsdf69

Hi, everyone !!! I want to know , if as a sub, on a vanilla night, do i have the right to disagree with my Dom ? He says, after i am collared, i have to be quiet if He tells me to, Need your advice ?? kat


If he doesn't allow you the opportunity to disagree and discuss, he's placing a huge strain on the relationship by leaving you only one option - leaving - when he does something you're unhappy with.

(in reply to katsdf69)
Profile   Post #: 40
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