Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/18/2010 5:59:53 PM)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aPeLiub0jnQE


"Republicans Voting Against Stimulus Then Asked Obama for Money"

"Alabama Republicans Jo Bonner and Robert Aderholt took to the U.S. House floor in July, denouncing the Obama administration’s stimulus plan for failing to boost employment. “Where are the jobs?” each of them asked.

Over the next three months, Bonner and Aderholt tried at least five times to steer stimulus-funded transportation grants to Alabama on grounds that the projects would help create thousands of jobs.

They joined more than 100 congressional Republicans and several Democrats who, after voting against the stimulus bill, wrote Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood seeking money from $1.5 billion the plan set aside for local road, bridge, rail and transit grants. The $862 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act passed last year with no Republican votes in the House and three in the Senate."

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/10/18-2

http://www.wusf.usf.edu/news/2010/10/18/gop_congressmen_criticize_stimulus_ask_for_money

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20019903-503544.html


Small government my ass.

More like stimulating hypocrasy......



Fellow -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/18/2010 6:45:20 PM)

The original Obama stimulus was a sham. It was not designed to create jobs (except some in China perhaps). Asking for a real stimulus can not be viewed as a sin.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/18/2010 9:50:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

The original Obama stimulus was a sham. It was not designed to create jobs (except some in China perhaps). Asking for a real stimulus can not be viewed as a sin.



We still have a bunch of people working on roads, bridges , water lines and a treatment plant in this county and not ONE of them is wearing a silly little conical hat.



Moonhead -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 6:23:15 AM)

Was it Johnson who was in the habit of threatening to remove public assets (airbases and the like) from the patches of Senators who refused to do as they were asked?



Aylee -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 6:52:16 AM)

Umm. . . let me get this correct. . .

Congress people have asked for money AFTER the bill went through.

Which means that the money was gonna be spent "whatever."  And so congress-people are asking for money for their preferred projects.

This seems fairly normal.

So. . . I am just asking. . . if your congress-person votes against tax-cuts, but they pass anyway, should you be still taxed at the "before" rate?  How do you feel about that?



tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:02:05 AM)

Thats not how i read the OP.

To me, its saying these men are demeaning the stimulus because it hasnt created any jobs, in their opinion. Yet, they want some of that stimulus money to create jobs in their state.

See the hypocrisy?

If the stimulus isnt creating jobs, then why ask for the money?

For example, the following is from the commondream link in the OP.

Rep. Pete Sessions, the firebrand conservative from Dallas, Texas, has relentlessly assailed the Democratic-passed stimulus law as a wasteful "trillion dollar spending spree" that was "more about stimulating the government and rewarding political allies than growing the economy and creating jobs."

But that didn't stop the Republican lawmaker from reaching his hand out behind the scenes to seek stimulus money for the suburb of Carrollton after the camera lights went dark and the GOP campaign against the 2009 stimulus law quieted down.

The affluent city's rail project is "shovel-ready," Sessions wrote Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood in February, urging his cabinet agency to give "full and fair consideration" to the city's request for $81 million in stimulus money, according to a copy of the letter obtained by the Center for Public Integrity. Ironically, his letter suggested the project would create jobs, undercutting the very public argument he has made against the stimulus.

"Carrollton's project will create jobs, stimulate the economy, improve regional mobility and reduce pollution," the lawmaker wrote.

There is no doubt others will see this differently.



Aylee -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:10:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Thats not how i read the OP.

To me, its saying these men are demeaning the stimulus because it hasnt created any jobs, in their opinion. Yet, they want some of that stimulus money to create jobs in their state.

See the hypocrisy?

If the stimulus isnt creating jobs, then why ask for the money?



But it passed.  So of course they want some money for their state or project. 

This seems rather normal to me.

I will ask again. . .

if your congress-person votes against tax-cuts, but they pass anyway, should you be still taxed at the "before" rate?  How do you feel about that?




tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:13:18 AM)

It passed... and they continue to bitch that what passed isnt capable of creating jobs. Yet there they are, behind the scenes, wanting a share of the pie they insist wont create jobs.



Aylee -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:20:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It passed... and they continue to bitch that what passed isnt capable of creating jobs. Yet there they are, behind the scenes, wanting a share of the pie they insist wont create jobs.


Behind the scenes?

You are kidding, right?

No, it won't create jobs.  The whole "shovel-ready" thing won't.

What exactly are you surprised about?

What are you so shocked about?  Whether or not this money should be given out is different from 'this money is going to be given out' and I want a part of that.

There are two separate issues.

Or I could be nuts and be the only person that sees it that way.  I hope not, because I think that means I need to run for office.



rulemylife -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:33:45 AM)

Nevermind, forgot what thread I was on.[:D]



flcouple2009 -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:38:57 AM)

Sure you could see it that way

OR

We vote against something we insist won't create any jobs or help the infrastructure, but once it passes we want a piece of the pie to help create jobs and infrastructure in our home districts.

In other words we are lining up for the benefits we insisted wouldn't be created.

Unless I missed something in advances with robots and droids please explain how building bridges, paving roads, or building the terminals some of the Republicans wanted the money for does not require workers? 

Do we have a new name for what these people do instead of a job?



Aylee -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:47:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Take a look at Owner's thread,  Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money 



Once the reality is what it is, why not make the best of it? 

Unfortunately I do not think that talking more slowly and yelling more loudly is going to help.

Once something is done, people try to make the best of it.  In this case, congress-people try and get money for their states.



rulemylife -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:51:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Umm. . . let me get this correct. . .

Congress people have asked for money AFTER the bill went through.

Which means that the money was gonna be spent "whatever."  And so congress-people are asking for money for their preferred projects.


And you don't find that hypocritical?

[sm=rofl.gif]

So if I'm a politician who is against the legalization of marijuana and then it is legalized it is not hypocritical of me to hand out free weed at my next campaign rally because it is going to be smoked by someone anyway?

quote:


So. . . I am just asking. . . if your congress-person votes against tax-cuts, but they pass anyway, should you be still taxed at the "before" rate?  How do you feel about that?


What does that have to do with the hypocrisy of legislators taking advantage of what they fought against?



rulemylife -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:59:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Once the reality is what it is, why not make the best of it? 

Unfortunately I do not think that talking more slowly and yelling more loudly is going to help.

Once something is done, people try to make the best of it.  In this case, congress-people try and get money for their states.


Sorry, just don't see it.

Basically you are saying that the politicians who were supposedly taking a principled stand against legislation they opposed are now free to cast their principles aside after the legislation passes.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 9:11:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

The original Obama stimulus was a sham. It was not designed to create jobs (except some in China perhaps). Asking for a real stimulus can not be viewed as a sin.


That's why it should have been stipulated that all stimulus money be spent on creating jobs in the US only and that those jobs created must stay in the US permanently. Just like the bailout money for the auto industry should've only been given if manufacturing jobs were returned to the US permanently. Also, universal health care, not universal health insurance would stimulate the economy. Universal health care doesn't depend on companies paying insurance premiums, which many are outsourcing to avoid.



housesub4you -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 5:11:03 PM)

To me the sham is where the members of the GOP who voted against the stim, and still preach how it has failed, take CREDIT for the programs it created and the jobs it created, the projects it created, never once saying Oh yea by the way I voted against the very thing i am taking credit for 



tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 5:25:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It passed... and they continue to bitch that what passed isnt capable of creating jobs. Yet there they are, behind the scenes, wanting a share of the pie they insist wont create jobs.


Behind the scenes?

You are kidding, right?



Nope, not kidding at all. I dont see them publically stating they want the money until it comes out in news reports.

quote:



No, it won't create jobs.  The whole "shovel-ready" thing won't.

What exactly are you surprised about?





cling to that belief, it might help you, eventually.


quote:



What are you so shocked about?  Whether or not this money should be given out is different from 'this money is going to be given out' and I want a part of that.



Please, stop trying to read my emotions. I feel no shock, especially by something posted on a thread.

And who is shocked, beyond yourself? Its politics as usual. However, its extremely hypocritical to ask for something that you find irreprehensible

quote:



There are two separate issues.

Or I could be nuts and be the only person that sees it that way.  I hope not, because I think that means I need to run for office.


These are not two seperate issues, but it doesnt surprise me you would see it that way. And, yes, your recent postings would indicate you would be welcomed with open arms for a run at any office... bet Palin would endorse you. [;)]



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 6:57:45 PM)

In a favorible lending environment, short-term jobs help create long-term employment. When people are hired for short or medium-term periods, they require additional supporting jobs to service them. More restaurants, more construction, more sales personnel, more insurance agents, and so on.

This is a basic concept that knuckledraggers can't seem to grasp. With regards to the Stimulus package,
"In congressional testimony given in July 2008, Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody's Economy.com, provided estimates of the one year multiplier effect for several fiscal policy options. The multipliers showed that increased government spending would have more of a multiplier effect than tax cuts. The most effective policy, a temporary increase in food stamps, had an estimated multiplier of 1.73. Making the Bush tax cuts permanent, had the second lowest multiplier, 0.23. A payroll tax holiday had the largest multiplier for tax cuts, 1.29. Refundable lump-sum tax rebates, the policy used in the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, had the second largest multiplier for a tax cut, 1.26.[3]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spending_multiplier

Germany's recent stimulus package has worked very well.



Fellow -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 7:57:42 PM)

quote:

We still have a bunch of people working on roads, bridges , water lines and a treatment plant in this county and not ONE of them is wearing a silly little conical hat.

The direct infrastructure spending out of 787B program was 46B or less than 6%. The rest were tax cuts, education spending, all kinds of subsidies, health care etc... that did not produce jobs (and it was trivial, expected, and known to everybody who designed and voted for the legislation). The program was designed based on false understanding of the current economic crisis. They did not understand the economy structure aspects of the crisis. It seems, the basic idea was, if you throw money into the system, it recovers by  itself.
I would argue (agreed with  defiantbadgirl ) it is difficult to design any stimulus without addressing the trade deficit and outsourcing problem. If you just give people money to spend on consumer products it would stimulate directly Chinese economy.
It is clear, the unemployment would be much less if 460B would have been directed to infrastructure building instead of 46B. Obviously the US Congress does not know what they are doing and there is no adequate leadership from the president.



tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans against stimulus,...ask for stimulus money (10/19/2010 8:00:19 PM)

LOL

Your post made me laugh, honestly. What job prepares anyone to be President, with the exception of those who were Vice President to begin with?



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