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Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 6:27:59 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Walking thru Walmart today I noticed Vince Flynn has a new "Mitch Rapp" book out.Now for those not familiar Rapp is sort of on the right ,ideologically speaking(Kiefer Sutherland's Jack Baur is a good comparison)...the Constitution and it's limits are routinely shredded in his single minded drive to get the job done and protect America from the evil doers.
It seems,if the judgement of my fellow posters can be believed that I am considered a "liberal"...yet my reading taste(fictionally speaking) lean towards the right.Clancy's Jack Ryan ,Flynns Rapp...hell I even read Newt's alternative history books(I for one would appreciate if he stuck to writing,for both ideological and entertainment value...lol).
So my question is this...Do you folks cross lines too ? Or do you mostly seek out those charecters that tend to reinforce your own political beliefs?

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 6:57:09 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		Personally, I do.  I think anyone who limits themself to party only and not issues at hand handicaps themselves logically. 

(that doesn't mean to say that others don't label me.  But me, personally...I don't consider myself labeled because I never know when I'll agree with someone's POV or cause.)


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 6:58:31 AM   
DCWoody


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Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		I'd think anyone who paid attention to fictional characters politics as to whether or not to read them was a bit odd to be honest. Thinking through fictional characters and trying to put them into politics.....it doesn't really work. But then the divide between left & right isn't so all consuming over here.

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 6:58:38 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		Politics never enter my mind when buying reading material...I've no idea the political stance of the authors...I never evaluate a book according to what I think their political stance is.

I would rather shoot myself in the head then read any obvious politically motivated book.

Butch

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 6:59:49 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ill spare you the sarcasm on fictional world. LOL.

I been watching more movies lately.   The last 5 I watched have been very weak on the plot.  I would rather enjoy a message board.   

I seen a few good ones... but for the time- message boards rock.    I dont think I sway in any direction.  But as you know I agree with Alex on some things.    Predictive programming is into movies and TV.   So easy to see agenda.  Think product placement-  but for ideas.

I enjoy Weeds.  One obviously expects weed to come up.  But in one episode,  Andys Grandmother, had a "right to die"- so after some weak back and forth- they pulled the power to the house which fed the breathing machine.   She kept on breathing- and then the main character killed her with a pillow.   "Shane get mommy a pillow".   (her kid)
Granny was also Jewish.     This brought up a terrible rumor I heard... A buddy of my late friend- he  said- did the same thing.   Even if I had tried to go to the law- I had nothing to offer, other then a nasty rumor.  So I let is alone.

So the predictive programming message is that old frail people are not worth living.  One could wonder why a jew was killed on the show...    (or not)     

Hollywood I once thought was creative...   but garbage in- garbage out.

I resent that.  


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 7:00:40 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		Ok...I think I may have misunderstood your question, Mike LOL.

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 7:47:08 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Ok...I think I may have misunderstood your question, Mike LOL.


I don't think you did.

Everyone else did, but I'll leave it to Mike to clarify.

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 8:13:08 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Perhaps I wasn't clear enough....it isn't really a question of "limiting" one's self to only that fiction which supports/reinforces one's own outlook but more a case of(this would be me) actually being drawn to,and enjoying that which in real life is distasteful to me...politically speaking.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 8:20:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		I'll read about anything. Fiction, Nonfiction, Right Wing, Left wing. It's called getting a well rounded base to make decisions from.

Those who only listen to views or read things that confirm their narrow minded view of the world are, in my opinion, crashingly ignorant. Even worse, they are ignorant by choice.

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 8:30:49 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll read about anything. Fiction, Nonfiction, Right Wing, Left wing. It's called getting a well rounded base to make decisions from.

Those who only listen to views or read things that confirm their narrow minded view of the world are, in my opinion, crashingly ignorant. Even worse, they are ignorant by choice.
I too will read anything,as a matter of fact I like to switch one for one between fiction/non fiction just to keep things balanced.I don't gravitate to one type to confirm anything....as a amatter of fact a cursory look at my fictional reading habits indicate that I do just the oppisite.The main protaganists in many of the  fictional books I read happen to be right wing knuckle draggers who would not hesitate to blow someones knee cap off to get the answers that they need....meanwhile here on planet reality I abhor the Cheney's of our political landscape and find the use of waterboarding abhorant.
I find this curious.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 8:55:16 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Not so much politics that I have noticed, I tend to read fiction that shows the darker side of the human condition, what people are capable of, bad and good, definitely leaning to wards the macabre evil sadistic ugly stuff. but politics doesnt bring me a red flag, never noticed it before and I know I have read plenty of it, its just part of the story or background of character..someones politics are usually not what I give a damn about.



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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:00:04 AM   
slvemike4u


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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		That sounds like a typical Dommes take on the subject (not suggesting for a moment that you are typical...just that Dommes have a dark side...lol)

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:13:26 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		There are plenty of right leaning authors whose work I admire. Does the fact that Yeats was a nazi vitiate his role as the best poet of the twentieth century? Are Tarr or At The Mountains of Madness unreadable because Lewis and Lovecraft were facist sympathisers?

A good piece of fiction has enough power to pull you in and hold your attention, regardless of your ideology. Dirty Harry is a perfect example of this. The problem starts when a writer (or director, or whatever) sees ideological arguments as more important than telling a story, a a piece of fiction as nothing more than a framework for philosophical arguments. You might put up with that if you're sympathetic to the philosophy at work, but if you're not, it's very obtrusive and can cause problems. At it's very best this approach tends to produce the dull, argumentative novels of the late Wells, Huxley or Heinlein, and from there it's a short step down to utter drivel, like the shite that the Ayn Rands and Jerry Pournelles of this world squeeze, and even that isn't as bad as this approach can get: have a look online for a pdf of The Turner Diaries, if you can avoid paying for it. Even a lot of white supremacists find that one unreadable...

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:13:39 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Hmmm I also like the dark side...but only if it has a happy ending...Hell I have enough problems being depressed. I don't need a book that adds to it.

Mike I don't think I misunderstood your question. I believe there is a basic difference in us... I don't look for a political bent in all things... If I don't look I don't see it...I don't have that filter in my brain...I'd never make a politician...too honest...

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:17:36 AM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Well right now I am reading a biography of Hitler...so yeah I guess I cross lines big time

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:21:04 AM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

There are plenty of right leaning authors whose work I admire. Does the fact that Yeats was a nazi vitiate his role as the best poet of the twentieth century? Are Tarr or At The Mountains of Madness unreadable because Lewis and Lovecraft were facist sympathisers?

A good piece of fiction has enough power to pull you in and hold your attention, regardless of your ideology. Dirty Harry is a perfect example of this. The problem starts when a writer (or director, or whatever) sees ideological arguments as more important than telling a story, a a piece of fiction as nothing more than a framework for philosophical arguments. You might put up with that if you're sympathetic to the philosophy at work, but if you're not, it's very obtrusive and can cause problems. At it's very best this approach tends to produce the dull, argumentative novels of the late Wells, Huxley or Heinlein, and from there it's a short step down to utter drivel, like the shite that the Ayn Rands and Jerry Pournelles of this world squeeze, and even that isn't as bad as this approach can get: have a look online for a pdf of The Turner Diaries, if you can avoid paying for it. Even a lot of white supremacists find that one unreadable...
This just about nails it....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:22:51 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Well right now I am reading a biography of Hitler...so yeah I guess I cross lines big time


Really...so which political party do you associate him with?

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:26:54 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hmmm I also like the dark side...but only if it has a happy ending...Hell I have enough problems being depressed. I don't need a book that adds to it.

Mike I don't think I misunderstood your question. I believe there is a basic difference in us... I don't look for a political bent in all things... If I don't look I don't see it...I don't have that filter in my brain...I'd never make a politician...too honest...

Butch
Hell Butch there are probably many basic differences between us( not necessarily a bad thing)but I do think you misunderstand my question....I don't look for a political bent when choosing what it is I like.....all I'm commenting on,and curious about,is the fact that there does seem to be that bent....and it just so happens it is contrary to my own set of values.
As I said I find that mildly curious...and was curious whether others see the same thing in there own choices.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 9:40:45 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Definitely. I've already mentioned Lovecraft and Yeats, and there are even better examples of fiction I really enjoy that's ideologically a bit dodgy. Judge Dredd is one of my favourite comics characters, and he's always been written as a fascist, mostly by a writer (John Wagner) who leans quite a long way to the right. I also hugely enjoy Ian Fleming's Bond books (a bit less keen on the films), which are nastily anticommunist and even more deeply misogynistic.

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RE: Do you cross ideological lines in the fictional world - 10/21/2010 10:08:02 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I will have a hard time feeling sympathy for a major fictional character who possesses traits and beliefs I find objectionable. So although I probably would finish the book, because it's a book. I wouldn't be engaged or want to read book II in the series.

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