Intolerance and Ignorance (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


candystripper -> Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:03:02 AM)

i re-read some threads and wondered why i sounded so defensive.  i did get some people's goat, but on the whole, i think people offered significant and personal insights into their life choices and other personal matters.  i guess i lack life experience with BDSM and it shows, for even the idea that women like to watch male gay porn seemed to shock me senseless.
 
It takes awhile -- a long while -- to learn all the varieties in the lifestyle and possibly no one ever does.  Others seem to have grasped that, while i have striven to learn, and when i discovered my newest ignorance, was always shocked.
 
i have only known of BDSM for a brief time in my life, and i have had a perhaps understandable need to grasp what it will mean for me.  i've been hassled by people on the other side, as we all have, but some of it shocked me.
 
It seems to me if my mouth weren't agape so much; if i could absorb what was said more easily; if i could give trying to "finish learning"; i'd be more tolerant and i wanted to share that.
 
Now, so this Op isn't about me, i wonder if others have had this same experience/ephipany?  Do Y/you know it all; can Y/you suspend judgment; are Y/you ever shocked?
 
candystripper




Reasonable -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:11:57 AM)

The only unnatural act is that which cannot be performed.

"Tolerance" in this "community" seems all about whether people viewing a thing can relate it as pleasureable to themselves.

Real tolerance is refusing to say ill of it if you don't. (so long as it's legal)

Consenting to something you like is just chickenshit.

Consenting to others doing something you find to be truly distasteful shows strength.




candystripper -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:16:28 AM)

"Consenting to something you like is just chickenshit.

Consenting to others doing something you find to be truly distasteful shows strength.

Reasonable"

i'm confused by this; can You clarify?
 
candystripper




Reasonable -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:23:07 AM)

You don't like gay porn. Others do.

Would you be strong enough not to complain about those who do? Or treat them with revulsion? And understand that even though you do not-it's simply part of another's comfort zone?




TNstepsout -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:23:24 AM)

LOL-well I got here by a rather strange route (or maybe any route that ends up here is strange *shrug*) but I used to chat on Yahoo a lot. Heard it ALL. So my Shock-O-Meter is pretty well worn out. Although there was one thing kinda funny that shocked me.

I'd been approached by a "Dom" type on Yahoo who told me he was into pretty extreme stuff. I asked him what kind of stuff, and he told me "I like to put needles in nipples and nail cunts to tables". Sooooooo, after making sure all windows and doors were locked, I politely told him that was a bit extreme for me. (even to chat about) This was in a roleplay chat and I assumed this was all fantasy stuff he wanted to act out in online roleplay. Imagine my surprise when I started reading the boards and found out there are people who really do put needles and nails in various body parts. Yeah, that kinda short circuited the ole Shock-O-Meter.




Reasonable -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:26:51 AM)

I'm extreme too. I used to make females be *quiet* for entire days..Mwhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa[:D]




candystripper -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:33:01 AM)

"You don't like gay porn. Others do.

Would you be strong enough not to complain about those who do? Or treat them with revulsion? And understand that even though you do not-it's simply part of another's comfort zone?

Reasonable"
 
i remember being shocked daily as i learned what the various BDSM interests stood for; i had never heard of a ring gag, etc.  i had thought there'd come a time when i'd be over this, but now i'm not so sure. 
 
You are correct about it taking strength not to show revulsion.....and s'times i have failed i think. i have a renewed purpose to show such strength, but it comes partially from not believing anymore that i will ever know it all.  As for gay porn, i've never seen any, so i suppose it best to suspend judgment, especially since it seems quite popular. 
 
i am trying now not to let the shock-o-meter rise in my posts so i sound negative....i have tried, but not hard enough.  So, to answer Your question, Reasonable, alot of replusive things (to me) are perfectly fine with me; i stumble when i discover s'thing new.  That's what i wondered whether others experienced.
 
candystripper




Zenonis -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:34:01 AM)

     Shocked? Not sure about that, but have certainly seen things that were not my interest. Or things that were not distasteful in any way... just could not figure out was the turn-on was to be doing it. Overall I just watched/heard of it and if the person(s) doing it were OK with it, enjoying it and needed it... so be it.
  And intolerance is here in our world often as much as in the vanilla. There will always be people that want to stir trouble and be judgmental of others.
   Yes, I also think that we never learn it all in BDSM or life in general. The best thing we can do is learn about ourself and what we need and want to be happy. Why I put the quote below on my profile. Seemed to say it well to me.
Thanks for the Ovid link, I am a Roman coin collector.

Knowing others is wisdom, knowing the self is enlightenment.” Tao Te Ching




MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:41:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I'm extreme too. I used to make females be *quiet* for entire days..Mwhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa[:D]

You ANIMAL!! How could you!!..............

And can you teach others how to do it as well? Do you use anything for this or is it all mental control? I've ball gagged a woman for six hours straight but not for days. Quite the skill you've got there. [;)] Keep up the good work.




Reasonable -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:45:52 AM)

It's very simple. When they break silence,you make them do more housework. (Or take away another pair of shoes)

Even more fun,is to make them write down what they said-say,a few hundred times. You get the idea.[;)]




candystripper -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:49:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

It's very simple. When they break silence,you make them do more housework. (Or take away another pair of shoes)

Reasonable


Being completely quiet for a day seems so -- peaceful.
 
candystripper




Reasonable -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:52:21 AM)

At some point in this,a decade or so,one sees most everything. One reason I quit going to clubs and community meets-"Oh another flogging-noisy bottom-how origional *yawn*"........... (wanders off to the snack bar to see if the fat chicks have gobbled up all of the goodies yet)

And things one found replusive in the long ago actually become INTERESTING-for you might actually see something NEW.

So don't feel too bad.[;)]




foxnotinsox -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 5:53:11 AM)

quote:

It seems to me if my mouth weren't agape so much; if i could absorb what was said more easily; if i could give trying to "finish learning"; i'd be more tolerant and i wanted to share that.
 
Now, so this Op isn't about me, i wonder if others have had this same experience/ephipany?  Do Y/you know it all; can Y/you suspend judgment; are Y/you ever shocked?


Hmmmmm .... I am still shocked from time to time ... like the guy who said that the reason why 2nd marriages often failed was because the woman did not put the new man [ie Master] in her life first before her children ... that the children ran things and that the new man *has* to be the new father ... heheh and other close-minded comments like that.

As for learning about other things, being wide-eyed and resistant to change is normal. How you look at things can be important too ... when I found out that one of my friends liked watching gay male porn ... heheh both on film and in real life ... I said, "really?? why is that????" instead of "ewww yuck, how can you be interested in that??"

Suspend judgement? Well, no ... I do not believe we ever do. We have to make judgements to form opinions, to figure out what is good for us .. and what is not so good. Sometimes things do not fit into our present experience .. yet with time, they *may*. Othertimes we find that things do not fit into our belief system and can reject the ideas ... yet rejection without experiencing (at least by delving into and finding out about) can close doors to what otherwise could be a rather exciting experience.

As for consenting to something that you find truly distasteful, this to me does not show strength ... rather it shows a lack of strength. By this I mean that you are not listening to your morals. However, by being open to something without necessarily consenting to it is what shows strength ... for then you can make a decision as to whether this activity is for you .. or not for you .. without making judgement on the people who do the activity.




ExistentialSteel -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 6:01:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Being completely quiet for a day seems so -- peaceful.
 
candystripper


LOL, why does this not surprise me about you? :)




Reasonable -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 6:13:08 AM)

One reason I never bothered with women with children was the fact that the little buggers did run everything. Everything you did with the woman had to be structured and scheduled around them. It's an enormous  pain in the ass,and I wish more mothers realized how much of a sacrifice they are asking of a single man, to put up with it.

Instead,they seem to project thier mindset onto these guys as the default. Feel unloved and neglected by Doms here? There's probably a reason why that is.

So I guess you are correct fox.

I stand corrected,consenting to something you find distasteful DOES show lack of strength.




twicehappy -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 6:18:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

 Do Y/you know it all; can Y/you suspend judgment; are Y/you ever shocked?


Can any human being know it all? I think not, life is about growing, about continually expanding your mind. I believe we all spend lifetimes returning to this plane to continue learning. Any man who claims to know all is a fool.

Yes, after that initial knee jerk reaction of "WHAT?” usually i stop and ponder why did that give me such a quick reaction, then i figure it out and let it go thinking each to his own. There are some exceptions to this, i hate intolerance, neglect, abuse, all those bring about a fast fury and a faster judgment.

Shocked, no hardly ever, the inventiveness of the Homo sapiens as a species ceased shocking me long ago. We are the only animals on the planet to practice deliberate cruelty. So our inventiveness in seeking pleasure ceased to shock me early in my life.





babyblues -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 6:19:21 AM)

interesting post candy, thank you....
 
i find that few things shock me these days...what with the internet, especially the wacky world of yahoo, and stories that you see on TV these days, even over your morning Cheerios...
 
actually, a few jaws might drop at the PTA meeting if they knew what i was into....so i try to not be judgemental - who am i to judge anyone?
 
one thing did truely shock me lately...learning that a woman i have know for years, online, regularly performs on cam with her 20 year old daughter, masturbating together....while i understand that they are being told to do so and they are obeying that, it will never seem "ok" to me....i'll never look at her the same again...or the man that tells her to do it....
 
does that make me judgemental? probably so....so be it




MHOO314 -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 6:19:53 AM)

Hi candy, how nice to see you back--I don't just see it in the life--I see it in life in general--yes there are things I see that to Me are hard limits-distasteful--but I guess as one said, (having worked in and round alternative lifestyles since I was a NOPD in the 80's,) My shockometer takes a lot to hit a movement--I find I am more shocked about what people "out there" are doing and thinking--thats keep the vanilla meter hitting red alot.  What I also see more and more is what I call the "hasty generalization"--I see it more and more and that burns Me--
 
...all female subs are or should be...
...all male subs are or should be...
...all Dominas are or should be..
...all Doms are or should be..
...all single women are...
...all teachers are...
 
This to Me is what leads to intolerance and it bleeds across. I personally am more tolerant in the lifestyle, funny huh, as long as it doesn't go against My few basic No's.
 
We are all at the end of the day--human--and as I stated yesterday on another thread--it is our human failings that betray us most.
 




candystripper -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 6:57:49 AM)

Now see if this is a fair statement:
 
...all female subs are or should be...  female subs
...all male subs are or should be... male subs
...all Dominas are or should be.. Dominas
...all Doms are or should be.. Doms
...all single women are... single
...all teachers are... teachers

 
LOL.
 
candystripper




Proprietrix -> RE: Intolerance and Ignorance (4/26/2006 7:02:46 AM)

I had to think long and hard before responding to this thread because I have so many unpopular views on the topic of tolerance. But you know, I came full circle in my thought process, so I'm fairly comfortable in what I'm about to say.

I don't, and I never have, bought into the mantra of "BDSM people should have a higher level of tolerance and acceptance for others" or that "as an alternative lifestyle community, we should be more open minded to others" or "It's not right to say your kink is better than mine." I'm sorry, but the fact that I have an interest in kink and power exchange does not mean that I should be obligated to open the doors of my standards and morals and accept people with whom I do not agree.

If I have spent my entire life feeling that XYZ is immoral and reprehensible, I'm not going to suddenly change that about myself and say "Well, since the rest of the "community" accepts this, I will too." First of all, my morals aren't there to be bent by popular demand, and secondly, I don't believe everyone on earth who practices BDSM falls into this mythical, weakly defined "community" of which I've heard.

Some people's religion is very important to them, and that religion may very well dictate that certain activities, which are common among kinky folk, are sinful or wrong. The people involved in this lifestyle often want their quasi-collective values to supercede every individual's religious beliefs, upbringing, or family values. I personally don't get that. Why should a bunch of strangers, from all over the planet, with a plethora of contradicting stances, take precedence over one's piousness?
              The best example I can think of here is those who come from religions that dictate that homosexuality is innately wrong. If they come into this lifestyle, and converse with it's practitioners, they are inevitably going to be exposed to homosexuality. To them, this is just as unrighteous as pedophilia. And while everyone can sit back all day long and condemn pedophilia, if these people even so much as whisper that they feel the same way about homosexuality, they are verbally ripped to shreds and called "unaccepting", "closed-minded", and "intolerant".
             I have sat back and watched this happen so many times when it comes to adultery. When asked for opinion by an adulterer, do we accept it without objection and resistance, or do we speak up that we feel it is wrong? If we sit back in silence, we risk being spoken for by those who do not object to it. But if we take a stand against it, we are subjected to an onslaught of insult by those who want to justify it.

I have found that the most judgmental people are those who believe everything should be accepted. The ones quickest to condemn, are those who chant on about not condemning others. The least tolerant people, are those who preach acceptance. Because when any situation arises that may ripple the waters, these are the people who become the most uncomfortable. I've also found these people to be full of hypocricy as well, because half of what they advocate acceptance of, they would be abhored to see their families engage in. They talk the talk about "Your kink should be respected, it's just not for me", but how would they truly feel if they found out their offspring was out at night doing that exact thing?
I've never received stronger judgment and condemnation than I have from alternative lifestylists, in the name of "acceptance". (And I actually mentioned this in a thread regarding how lifestylists are quick to tell me how to dress in public, when in fact the vanilla world doesn't really give a shit what I wear.)
I've been verbally bashed into a pulp by lifestylists when I have spoken up about trying something new, and it not working out, being called a player, uneducated, and inexperienced. Then the same people will turn around and say to the next in line "Be open to trying new things".
I have seen elders venture in, with a good 40+ years of experience in WIITWD, having served in the House of Whatever and they believe in a certain level of civility, decorum, and protocol. Then they see people poking fun of "Houses" and chanting out that no one has the right to honorary titles, and it's "ok" to be bratty, and arguing over the semantics of ingesting fecal matter. They normally slip out the back door quietly, which is a shame, because they could have potentially taught most of us a lot.
I have seen people advocate for "all things are ok as long as within the perimeters of the law" but then they turn around and blatantly break the law by commiting the legal definition of assault during an S&M scene. Then they complain about the law, but won't get off their ass to attend a rally at the courthouse to change it, because someone might see them. Then turn around and tell those who did attend the rally that their behavior at the rally was "unbecoming to the reputation of the community of BDSM".
I have seen people go on and on about how we should accept others regardless of disability or ethnicity, but then someone with poor eyesight is ostracized because they type in a larger font or a newcomer is criticized for his english skills.
Overall, what I see is people who love to arm-chair theorize about what a wonderful world it is when we all accept each other, but they are the quickest to judge anyone else who isn't sitting next to them agreeing with every word.
There comes a point when one becomes SO open-minded that they simply let their brain fall out.

Personally, I'm not content to sit back and say that I am tolerant, accepting, and receptive of others, regardless of their personal tastes. I do have certain morals and beliefs by which I judge others. I do have certain standards. I do have a certain level of principles. To dismiss all of that for the benefit of saying "no one's kink is any better or worse", to me, is simply not worth it. I'm not going to start rearranging my ethics so that someone else can have their  ego petted. And if that qualifies me as intolerant, so be it.




Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875