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[Poll]

Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker?


Yes, being a 'stay at home' partner is a form of Prostitution
  15% (3)
No, of course it isn't the same - and here's why...
  57% (11)
I dunno...
  5% (1)
Something else.
  21% (4)


Total Votes : 19
(last vote on : 10/24/2010 11:43:55 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 2:29:47 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		I was interested by the other poll in this section which suggests that providing Domination/Submission for a fee is basically Prostitution.

I wondered what we felt about other relationships in which a transaction to the benefit of both parties occurs. In particular, I wondered what we felt about those primary relationships where one partner goes out to work and brings money home to the stay at home partner to trade for (for example) child care, sex, a safe roof, companionship and so on...

My motivation for asking? I think Prostitution, Financial Domming/Subbing and Life Partnerships can be seen in many different ways from any number of perspectives. One possible perspective is that all of the above may be examples of two-way transactional relationships - they all offer a quid pro quo - you do for me, and I'll do for you. That being the case, maybe we should be a little less precious than we are around the judgements we make of different human relationships where willing consent is present on both sides.

We are all Prostitutes.

< Message edited by hertz -- 10/23/2010 2:31:52 AM >
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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 3:20:22 AM   
favesclava


Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		most do housework cooking and laundry. paying for that would take a big chunk out a monthly budget. frankly you couldnt pay me enough to stay at home. the work is never ending.

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 3:28:25 AM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
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From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		Sugar, you just opened a can of worms.  I suggest hiding in hills for a bit.

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 3:35:34 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: favesclava

most do housework cooking and laundry. paying for that would take a big chunk out a monthly budget. frankly you couldnt pay me enough to stay at home. the work is never ending.


I hear you. But you might consider that to be the price you pay for certain services rendered by whoever you share your home with.

Obviously, you are paying too much, but there it is. You could try renegotiating your contract...

EDIT: Just re-read your post 'you' isn't you, necessarily. I'm just saying, I accept your proposition that being at home is a job - often, it's a job that 'pays' in kind...


< Message edited by hertz -- 10/23/2010 3:38:32 AM >

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 6:06:44 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Do you know you have posted a ridiculous premise?  How do you feel about women who make significantly less than men (or vice versa), does this mean they are prostitutes as well?  It is none of your business how people determine to set up their homes and personal life, it is between them.

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 7:35:37 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Do you know you have posted a ridiculous premise?  How do you feel about women who make significantly less than men (or vice versa), does this mean they are prostitutes as well?  It is none of your business how people determine to set up their homes and personal life, it is between them.


That's a pretty high horse you have there, Katy...

1. I deliberately made my post non-gender specific by using the word 'partner'.
2. I implied no judgement of anyone (unless I have done so unknowingly).
3. I didn't imply it was anyone's business how other people live.
4. If the premise is 'ridiculous', then it falls on you to explain why.

What I am trying to do, and which you have spectacularly failed to notice, is open a discussion around the proposition that making judgements on people who exchange sexual favours for cash, or sell their domination/submission for cash is inappropriate given that from one viewpoint, in reality we all do this whenever we get involved in a relationship with another human being. Relationships can be viewed as being about exchange.

But hey, if you'd prefer to go galloping across the plains on that steed of yours, who am I to stop you?

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 8:36:54 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
I accept your proposition that being at home is a job - often, it's a job that 'pays' in kind...



I would disagree here. If we're considering a barter situation here, then you're not necessarily bartering sex for your domestic contribution.

Assuming you're at home doing housework, laundry, maybe looking after children, keeping on top of the household accounts, maintaining the property (either yourself, or by using contractors) or all of the million and one things that are needed. Then your partner is out earning money to pay for the staples of life - food, warmth, rent/mortgage, bills, clothing, medical insurance, etc.

You could argue that s/he is effectively providing you with food/shelter/etc in return for your contribution to the household.

Sex is merely the thing you do that brings you both pleasure and helps you de-stress at the end of long, busy days.

_____________________________

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 9:21:43 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
I accept your proposition that being at home is a job - often, it's a job that 'pays' in kind...



I would disagree here. If we're considering a barter situation here, then you're not necessarily bartering sex for your domestic contribution.

Assuming you're at home doing housework, laundry, maybe looking after children, keeping on top of the household accounts, maintaining the property (either yourself, or by using contractors) or all of the million and one things that are needed. Then your partner is out earning money to pay for the staples of life - food, warmth, rent/mortgage, bills, clothing, medical insurance, etc.

You could argue that s/he is effectively providing you with food/shelter/etc in return for your contribution to the household.

Sex is merely the thing you do that brings you both pleasure and helps you de-stress at the end of long, busy days.


I agree with the basic point you are making here. A relationship can be seen as a series of transactions based on mutual exchange of something of one's self, be that labour or time,or whatever, in return for something of the other. Where we disagree is on whether sex may, or may not be part of that transaction chain. I think every relationship is different, and sometimes it is. But I am happy enough to concede that it ain't necessarily so.

Two things strike me as interesting.

Firstly,the suggestion that Prostitution in the sexual sense is simply about sex. I think there may be more to it than this, but I need time to gather my thoughts.

Secondly, the role of money is interesting. Money disguises the true nature of a transaction by drawing attention to itself. Prostitution in the normally accepted sense is not so much about sex for money, as the exchange of whatever the sex is about for food and shelter. Money is merely the intermediary.

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 9:45:49 AM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		This looks like it could be an interesting discussion. When I was younger, I engaged in acts of prostitution, ie: sex for money & gifts. I don't see professional doms/subs as being prostitutes necessarily. I also tend to agree with the idea that we all exchange something in a relationship, be it d/s or what have you. I am currently in a situation where I am a livein 24/7 submissive and I am not required to work outside our home. I have a small pension that takes care of my personal needs. The rest is provided by the dominant in exchange for the cooking, cleaning, etc that I do here.

This type of relationship is working for us. This part of the relationship is a business relationship, therefore I suppose that it could be considered prostitution. However, would the maid who would come in to clean or the cook who expect pay for their work also be considered prostitutes? We also have a love & a sexual relationship & a friendship & provide companionship for each other. This is not part of the business relationship.

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 9:46:19 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz


Two things strike me as interesting.

Firstly,the suggestion that Prostitution in the sexual sense is simply about sex. I think there may be more to it than this, but I need time to gather my thoughts.

I'm a fairly simplistic person - for this situation I would class 'prostitution' as being along the lines of the legal definition - the supply of sexual services in return for money or goods. By sexual services I would go with penetrative sex (wherever the penetration takes place), manual masturbation, something along those lines. Would I include professional BDSM services? To be honest, I don't know. I can do pain play with a friend and not be aroused. I will enjoy myself, but it feels very non-sexual to me. But that's just me and my perspective. I appreciate it's different for everyone.

Secondly, the role of money is interesting. Money disguises the true nature of a transaction by drawing attention to itself. Prostitution in the normally accepted sense is not so much about sex for money, as the exchange of whatever the sex is about for food and shelter. Money is merely the intermediary.

I think we agree on the basic barter situation here - my argument is that what is being bartered is not necessarily the sex, but all the other things that the stay-at-home does to maintain the family group. Just as an employee in a company is being compensated for maintaining the company's profitability/whatever.

There may well be people who stay at home and do absolutely nothing - their only contribution is sex. But in the real world, I'd suspect those kinds of relationships are in the minority. Sex may be part of the deal, but it's unlikely to be the only commodity that's being traded.




_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 9:57:16 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (www.bls.gov), a housewife's labor is worth upwards of $79,000 per year. The government's labor website shows that the average annual salary of a private household cook is $28,000 (I am rounding off to the nearest thousand), a maid/housekeeper makes $18,000 and a child care worker also earns $18,000.

A financial manager earns $57 per hour. If a housewife is spending five hours per month on the financial upkeep and improvement of the family finances, the yearly pay would add up to $3000 per year. This type of financial activity includes not only balancing the bank accounts, but searching for the lowest possible insurance and mortgage rates, finding safe and profitable investments and performing research before the purchase of significant household necessities like appliances and automobiles.

According to the website Paycale.com, a business consultant with five years experience makes $45 per hour. If you figure that the average wife spends five hours a week consulting with her husband about business (they would be talking about his job or business dealings), the annual income from that job would be $12,000. If kids are involved, the mother may also fulfill the roles of taxi driver and teacher (when the kids are old enough to have extra curricular activities and homework).

Some readers might think it's materialistic or greedy to put a price on a housewife's work. Of course, a wife/mother does all of the above mentioned work out of a love for her family and a desire to have a happy family and a nice home. But people put a value on a homemaker's monetary value everyday. Evaluating a wife's work and contributions is what happens in divorce court.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/680217/how_much_does_a_wife_cost.html

This is just one of many sites that post what a housewife would be worth.

Salary.com determined that a stay-at-home mother might be paid as much as $134,121 for her contributions as a housekeeper, cook, day care center teacher, janitor and CEO, among other functions. (See full list at right.) The stay-at-home mothers surveyed said they logged a total of 92 hours a week performing those jobs.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/03/pf/mothers_work/

So, it seems many women, and men in the same position, are actually taking a pay cut. I see no prostitution. A hooker always wants her money.

_____________________________

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 9:57:25 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		It kind of falls on me to show that in a transaction between a prostitute and his/her client, sex is not the only thing being provided by the prostitute...

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 9:58:48 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Do you know you have posted a ridiculous premise?  How do you feel about women who make significantly less than men (or vice versa), does this mean they are prostitutes as well?  It is none of your business how people determine to set up their homes and personal life, it is between them.


That's a pretty high horse you have there, Katy...

1. I deliberately made my post non-gender specific by using the word 'partner'.
2. I implied no judgement of anyone (unless I have done so unknowingly).
3. I didn't imply it was anyone's business how other people live.
4. If the premise is 'ridiculous', then it falls on you to explain why.

What I am trying to do, and which you have spectacularly failed to notice, is open a discussion around the proposition that making judgements on people who exchange sexual favours for cash, or sell their domination/submission for cash is inappropriate given that from one viewpoint, in reality we all do this whenever we get involved in a relationship with another human being. Relationships can be viewed as being about exchange.

But hey, if you'd prefer to go galloping across the plains on that steed of yours, who am I to stop you?



I don't understand your point. Are you asking if what most of us do in our personal romantic relationships is similar to a money/barter exchange as in prostitution?

Or are you asking why people make judgements on money exchanged services?

Because your title is sounding somewhat judgemental in referring to the partner who stays home.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:00:29 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I do not exchange money for relationships, the idea is foreign to me.  Also I have no problem making judgements about strangers on message boards.  

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:02:37 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tazzygirl

I see no prostitution. A hooker always wants her money.


I would argue 'the money' is not her/his goal. Her/his goal is the same as the stay at home partner - food and shelter. But her/his relationship with the person providing this means money must be used as an intermediary.


< Message edited by hertz -- 10/23/2010 10:03:24 AM >

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:04:21 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		In your argument then, anyone with a job is a hooker.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:07:32 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		How the hell does the flow of a day to day relationship become prostitution? Just the word alone would indicate disrespect. How can we take a question like this seriously when you use words that inflame to start with?

In a loving relationship where we partner up and team work life, I see nothing but respect and adulthood.


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RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:09:35 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I don't understand your point. Are you asking if what most of us do in our personal romantic relationships is similar to a money/barter exchange as in prostitution?


Yes.

quote:

Or are you asking why people make judgements on money exchanged services?


Yes, that too.


quote:

Because your title is sounding somewhat judgemental in referring to the partner who stays home.


It's a steal from another thread. I don't see prostitution as something to be ashamed about, so I don't see the comparison in negative terms.

I can say it outright - I am not meaning to denigrate stay at home partners, and I apologise if I have offended anyone who keeps house.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:10:02 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly, Lockit.

One works to support the home monetarily. The other works, at home, to support the household in physical terms. To me, its a wash. Sex is the bonus based upon mutual desires and needs. Now, if we want to toss in a sex worker's salary, most cant afford that! Except maybe Gates.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Being the partner who stays at home = Hooker? - 10/23/2010 10:10:42 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Too late to back pedal.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
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(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 20
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