Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 8:57:02 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline 		Let the high frequency traders tell their own story!

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6945451n

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 8:57:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole.


I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 11:50:31 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

First off, a huge IF: The quoted article is from prison planet, which I consider less than reliable.  So my response is IF the article is true (and that one of the HFTs was claiming to have never have had a losing day in four years, even on days that the market tanked, makes me think it's suspect).

I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole.  If there is a quirk in a program, it could crash the system more quickly than any human could realize that there's a problem.  It also makes it damn tempting to do insider trading because forty transactions in a day, most worth a fraction of a percent, could be a very effective screen for the one illegal trade that nets a thirty percent gain.

Normally, I'm against regulation.  But I'd support something stating that electronic transactions would have to be held a minimum of half an hour while there would be no restrictions on human transactions that couldn't crash the whole system.



I am afraid you do not grasp what it is.

The big banks are INVESTMENT banks.  This means they play with their own money.   The software KNOWS what trade is asked for at what price.   The house knows the bid/ask- and skims the price on EVERY TRANSACTION.

There is no neutral party here.   

The brokerage/banks,  pad the trades- in micro seconds- cause they own the software.

By you claiming it is on the up and up- is you in essence saying YOU can beat the computer at chess.   and you CANT.

Think outside the box, Steven,  do not sell yourself short on particularly this concept.  The game is rigged.  



(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 2:32:21 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Well, hell, I'm against investment banks in the first place.  I bailed them out involuntarily a couple of times and I'd appreciate them not gambling any more.

And I'm not seeing where I claimed that this is on the up and up.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 6:49:46 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		FR... Remember that "flash crash" that happened earlier this year?  It's looking more and more that it was due to a flash trade.

These folks make money by getting fractions of a cent on shitloads of trades.  It adds up after awhile.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 8:41:17 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

In other news, water is wet, the sun rises in the East, and English is widely spoken in England.

You must not be in the markets. The SEC is looking into it because of the possibility these programs could instigate a precipitous drop in prices that all exchanges want to avoid.

For most...it isn't fun being slave to the speculators.


(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 8:48:34 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

In other news, water is wet, the sun rises in the East, and English is widely spoken in England.

You must not be in the markets. The SEC is looking into it because of the possibility these programs could instigate a precipitous drop in prices that all exchanges want to avoid.

For most...it isn't fun being slave to the speculators.


If you mean, by "in the markets," day-trading, then no. I don't like gambling. I am invested in a Canada fund, which is a play on natural resources, and I have a rental property. I'm coasting on my cash flow now.

The markets are just another method for transfering wealth from the middle class to the ownership class.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 8:55:00 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole.


I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions.

Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets and is not 'cashing out discrepencies' and in fact can cause wide swings if they guess (speculate) incorrectly.

Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation.

NO...this is 'speed trading' where spreads are used by computer except it is on buying and selling any stock...not the same stock...at the same time Both are extremely speculative and most arbitrage is on commodities most in demand (currencies the most popular) not stocks. Plus all of these trades are volume sensitive where large quantities need be traded.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 9:08:18 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Let me try it again.
I make one trade. I hold it 250 trading days. That means I hold it for 21,600,000 seconds.


It would take 1,999.999 trades held for a grand total of 400,00 seconds to bring the average hold time down to.... 11 seconds.

TWO BILLION to one. Per year. Roughly. Not counting Sundays and Holidays.
Prisonplanet, uh?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 9:08:25 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets

Actually, that's exactly how it stabilizes markets.
quote:

Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation.

Why would it? It has nothing to do with speculation--in fact, since it counts on a sure thing, it's the opposite of speculation. Where's the discrepancy to take advantage of?

Now, in a fixed currency, the discrepancy between speculative prices and actual value create arbitrage possibilities (and the reason why we turned to floating currency)--but that's not at all the situation here. Apples and oranges.

quote:

NO...this is 'speed trading'

Which is WHY I told him he was thinking of arbitrage instead in his post.

In short, you're saying the same thing I told him.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/24/2010 9:09:31 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 10:49:06 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole.


I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions.

Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets and is not 'cashing out discrepencies' and in fact can cause wide swings if they guess (speculate) incorrectly.

Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation.

NO...this is 'speed trading' where spreads are used by computer except it is on buying and selling any stock...not the same stock...at the same time Both are extremely speculative and most arbitrage is on commodities most in demand (currencies the most popular) not stocks. Plus all of these trades are volume sensitive where large quantities need be traded.



yeh you fake the market maker out.  put it up and take if off before they can execute, they bump the pread and you mail them.

that is not high risk that is extreme risk!  If your internet connection drops one packet you will take huge hits.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 10:53:11 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

FR... Remember that "flash crash" that happened earlier this year?  It's looking more and more that it was due to a flash trade.

These folks make money by getting fractions of a cent on shitloads of trades.  It adds up after awhile.



an example of how fast they can go, in 2001 (I think) maybe 02 I watch intel take a hit for I believe a snag over 18 billion in less than 10 minutes.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 10:54:30 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole.


I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions.


yeh milliseconds LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/24/2010 11:26:05 PM   
Dominatist


Posts: 87
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		[awaiting approval]

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/25/2010 5:39:27 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets

Actually, that's exactly how it stabilizes markets.
quote:

Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation.

Why would it? It has nothing to do with speculation--in fact, since it counts on a sure thing, it's the opposite of speculation. Where's the discrepancy to take advantage of?

Now, in a fixed currency, the discrepancy between speculative prices and actual value create arbitrage possibilities (and the reason why we turned to floating currency)--but that's not at all the situation here. Apples and oranges.

quote:

NO...this is 'speed trading'

Which is WHY I told him he was thinking of arbitrage instead in his post.

In short, you're saying the same thing I told him.



You actually beleive that?

I dont.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/25/2010 5:40:56 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Prisonplanet, uh?



Care to tell me you net worth?

---- >  You are up there with Goldman?  Or are you the hired help?

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/25/2010 6:59:01 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Don't look at the numbers.
Attack the poster.



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/25/2010 7:01:36 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Don't look at the numbers.
Attack the poster.





Let me back up.

This issue can be studied from other sources. 

The big boys are skimming, padding, double dipping.

If we dis-agree, then so be it.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/25/2010 7:13:30 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The big boys are skimming, padding, double dipping.


Stop the presses!!! Banks make money!!!!

If I thought a company made too much money I would buy stock in them.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Aver... - 10/25/2010 7:21:27 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The big boys are skimming, padding, double dipping.


Stop the presses!!! Banks make money!!!!

If I thought a company made too much money I would buy stock in them.


Ever here of Goldman bonuses?    Do you think these guys actually earn it?

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.922