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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 10:12:27 AM

DesFIP

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I see nothing wrong with the alternative routine including not permitting her to kneel. And making it clear that she is disobedient when he comes home and finds her kneeling.

However, let's examine the act of kneeling. It is to show respect and subservience. In many cases it comes from certain Christian religions where kneeling is required. But that doesn't mean it is the only way to show respect and subservience. If she or you, wants her head lower than yours, then sitting on a short stool or chair would be sufficient. So would standing while the dominant sits, in the manner that people approached a king, him sitting and them standing.

It is time for new rituals and this means that no matter how much enjoyment they have gotten from kneeling in the past, the op must choose something new and require her to do that instead. Whether punishment for disobedience is appropriate is up to the op and his sub or simply him calling her when he leaves work to remind her to be standing by the door when he comes home.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 10:15:21 AM

windchymes

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To the OP, a good physical therapist who specializes in backs can do wonders with a bulging disc.

The idea of "rods in the back" isn't as horrible as it sounds, I have a couple in my back myself. If the disc truly isn't going to heal, having it removed and an artificial one put in, as well as stabilizing or fusing the vertebrae together will give her the chance to heal up and live a normal life again. I toughed it out and was miserable for 3 years because I was NOT going to have surgery. Now, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I wouldn't like it, but I would do it to get my life back again.

As someone said, find a good neurosurgeon. If you happen to live in southern New Jersey, I can recommend a wonderful one.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 10:38:21 AM

Lockit

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I can understand the need to kneel as this has been a major sign of her submission that she relates to and needs to do, but if they want to put rods in her back, a new need becomes the focus because it is the most serious need. If you do the wrong things now, you will pay later. Walking is far more important than kneeling. Being able to go to the store and shop for what you need without a little ride'm cart, is more important. As long as you can keep moving as normally as one can, that is important and the emotional needs to kneel or anything else are what must be adjusted. It is part of having an injury that is life changing and her life has been changed. The more you fight it, the worse the future can be.

The next step for me are the rods. I resist that and will as long as I can, but I also know I cannot do what I love and need for my soul happiness. I will cheat sometimes because I cannot bear not doing it and I pay a price if I do. One minute of going to far can mean days, weeks or even months of paying that price. I love to dance and to run. I was an Olympic paced runner and dancing was my life. Without either I was lost as these things helped me physically and mentally deal with everything in life. My best tools were now gone. At first I would run or dance in my mind. I still will sometimes. Yet, running and dancing more than one or two songs is too much and I can disable myself.

You just don't do it. You heal as much as you can. Find a way between you to show that submission, honor, love... whatever you each get out of it and learn to accept that life was changed on day while riding a horse and at least temporarily she cannot and should not do certain things. It is what it is and if you fight it, you will pay.

Part of the hardship of facing limitations because of health or injury is feeling as if you are worth less because you cannot do what you used to do. Your self worth is wrapped up in all that you did and now that you can't do it, you are afraid you will be less in someone else's eyes. You may feel less. It is important for the people around someone that has a life that's been changed, to reassure and confirm that they are not less, just changed and they are loved and respected still. It takes time and sometimes a long time to adjust, but adjustment is the key. It's time to find other ways to show submission and for that bonding or whatever it is you each get out of it.

Believe me, the day your legs go out from under you, no warning, you just go straight down and cannot walk... you won't be thinking of kneeling. I've been there and they got me back up and walking with surgery, but I know what it's like to not be able to and had to accept that it was no longer a choice, but a must.

Listen to the doctors... and I hate saying that because I really don't like them... but listen to them before you cater to d/s or bdsm needs. Good luck to you both in this and I hope she finds relief and a way to accept the things that cannot be changed, the strength to know what can be done and do it, but the wisdom to know the difference and adjust to it.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 3:58:24 PM

APainfulDesire

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@Sexyred1 : I stress it's not a knee injury, but rather a low back one. Her knee gives from the sharp pain in her back [I'm assuming the suden inflammation is likely pinching a nerve]. I do appreciate your concern and weerr on the side of caution with damn near everything lol :] Thank you.

@ElizabethAnne: See that's what I'm hoping to find. Her doctor has been very pushy for muscle relaxers and rods and both of them limit her motion immensely and would make her miserable. I don't declare myself a doctor by any standards but I'm in a more holistic healthcare venue and seriously beleive [with some back up fro research], that she's a viable candidate for a disk repair or replacement. She's fine with doing the PT and therapy, but she doesn't want to have to get the Rods if she doesnt have to.

@DesFIP: I understand where you're coming from. And there are always reprecussions for disobedience, even if I understand why she does them. And in one of my blurbs I mentioned having chairs for her to sit in when I get home as she enjoys the physical 'being below'. We've been off and on about trying standing as we're not sure if the pressure from standing would gradually hurt her back more. As stated, I try to err on the side of caution.

@windchymes We're in PA but a trip there for someone who can help? Doable. Very doable. NJ is maybe 2 hours based on traffic and day. Her doctor made it a point I swear to scare her about it. He said her range of motion would be pretty limited to the point he said she'd be suggested to get an impliment to help get things off the floor. When I questioned him about why it would need to be so severe he stated the placement [it being so low] that they would have to fuse ad reinforce the area to prevent movement and damage. It didn't add up to me to be honest but, again, I'm no doctor. I've heard of surgeries of similar situations with almost all mobility regained, and I'm really hoping that we can find another doctor who can get us a more promising outcome than what we've got.

@Lockit: I'm really sory to hear your story. She's given up horses awhile ago knowing it would get worse and really everything was fine for awhile. And one day she just dropped from the pain, no trigger, no impact, literally out of the blue. That's when we got serious about digging around doctors an finding out the cause. I know what you mean about doctors though. I don't like them, but I respect ones who aren't throwing pills or a knife at you because it fluffs their pockets too. The way this guy has been pushing for surgery since the start just doesn't seem right. And after she fell it was a medical intern who suggested [and I may have the name of this wrong] SI injections. Within a month the swelling went down immensely and she was right as rain for almost 9 months. The shots work well with her but we know long term they can be detrimental, so we're looking for other options. It's still early for her, her appt got moved to tomorrow and it will be only her second injection and they're expecting it to be another 9 months approximately before needing another, but we figure if we look now, we can get it resolved before the shots stop working.

Again we appreciate everyones helpful opinions and words. Tomorrow we meet with a new doctor and get her shots so we should be a bit better.

P.S. She felt no pain at all sitting on a kneeling bench for over and hour, cannot thank you enough for that suggestion. We're ordering one for ourselves [Unless I can make a trip to lowes to build one] in the next month.

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Post #: 24

RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 5:52:15 PM

DesFIP

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And this is why I'm really happy my kid rides western, not English. Because most of the worst injuries I see come from the hunters and jumpers.

Good luck.

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Post #: 25

RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 6:05:07 PM

Hillwilliam

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As you and your partner get older, you will find that knees are one of the body parts that ages the LEAST gracefully. There are a lot of good suggestions here. Another possible position is the classic facing away on the floor head down ass up (please use me Sir) position.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 6:16:01 PM

Andalusite

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I agree the kneeling bench may be helpful, and kneeling only for a few seconds rather than a couple of minutes might help as well. Explore other rituals and other positions of subservience - curling up at your feet, or with her head in your lap, kissing your feet, draping herself across your lap with her bottom in the air, saying something that is special to the two of you, more service-oriented tasks, etc. I agree it sounds like you are absolutely *not* demanding it of her, but she feels more grounded and submissive when she can do those physical things, so you are trying to find ways to allow her to without harming herself. The kneeling bench or other similar furniture may be helpful, but since it is her back rather than her knees, you'll have to experiment.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/27/2010 6:49:51 PM

WolfyMontgomery

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For back problems... hmm.

There was this one chair that my parents used to have when I was little. It was meant to support proper poster. The part you sat in slanted down towards a spot you put your knees on. I remember LOVING this chair because they solved all my back issues from carrying around a 30lb backpack every day at school.
It's a little bit like those prayer benches I think, in the sense that you're sitting and putting weight on your knees, but I don't wholly know since I don't know what a prayer bench looks like. But you could try googling Posture Chair or something and see what comes up - they're good for back issues because they tend to force you into proper posture.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/28/2010 5:29:29 AM

APainfulDesire

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@DesFIP: I'm not sure how she rode...I think for whatever stupid reason, she was helping break a horse and it went from full gallop to stop and threw her. I don't remember the whole story, and I know even less about horses lol.

@Hillwilliam: The...'bedroom' situation is fine, I've worked around it. It's the time outside of that that's hard for her.

@Andalusite: Aside from feet kissing [not my thing, despite being a reflexologist I hate people touching my feet] those are some viable ideas. I'd have to muddle it a bit somehow [she can't curl up at my feet on the floor, even with cushions the hardwood is just too much] but the overall premise is good and I think she'd like it.

@WolfyMontgomery: http://www.the-pillow.com.au/uploads/images/GoodPostureChair.png Something like that? I think it would be good on the days its flaring up, the added cushion support would more evenly distribute weight, and likely allow her to sit longer. I may have to do a bit more research into that.

And to those wondering, the doctor said he likes her reaction to the previous shot so they gave her another series. If the inflamation goes away longer, they're going to issue 2 more then physical therapy with a chance at a minor surgery to repair the fractured disk as the buldging one looks a bit better now

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/28/2010 7:25:50 AM

OrionTheWolf

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I have two bulging disks, and have had them for over 10 years. It took going to five different doctors before I found one that were able to do the cortizone epidurals so that they gave me relief. In my research I discovered that many doctors use the min amount of cortizone and numbing agent, where as the pain management doctor I finally discovered uses the max. He also had me start on low impact and water physical therapy for muscle strengthening. He worked hand in hand with a neurosurgeon, instead of an orthopedic surgeon. The orthos I went to really only wanted to do surgery.

I am confused by "fractured disk" since disks are not hard and don't fracture. They are either bulging/herniated, or ruptured. If they are ruptured then the surgery is needed to remove the pieces of disk so they do not move up against the spinal cord. Bulging ones can cause pressure against nerves, ligaments and many other things that cause pain and sometimes numbing or partial paralysis.

I opted for pain management which included RF burning out of a nerve, three series of epidurals, physical therapy and based upon a reccomendation from my therapist and doctor, Tai Chi. I still do the loosen and strengthening exercises on a daily basis, and take care when I feel the imflammation start again. I have good days and bad, but until I can no longer walk or move, I am staying away from the surgery.

I suggest that you do some research on the internet concerning this condition, and join some forums they have out there. Communicate directly with the people that have this condition, so you can get first hand knowledge of the various types of treatment and therapy.

Hope things work for you and your girl.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/28/2010 8:37:06 AM

APainfulDesire

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That's the same exact question I had and he never answered. He wouldn't elaborate beyond 'it's a fracture.'. Frustrating really. The new doctor, thankfully, has a much more optimistic outlook and wants to redo a series of scans because he thinks, especially given her reactions to the shots, she doesn't need the surgery. I did not think about water therapy though, I'm not sure why as it should've been the first thing that comes to mind. We're gonna give him a call and leave a message to see if we can get her started since her college has a pool and there are plenty of therapists in the area. We don't beleive it's ruptured, nor does the new doctor as he said she would have far more frequent pain spams and would debilitate her immediately. Hers are more rogressing pain with random shots that just kind of make her stop for a second. Thanks for the suggestion!

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/28/2010 9:29:49 AM

wandersalone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery

For back problems... hmm.

There was this one chair that my parents used to have when I was little. It was meant to support proper poster. The part you sat in slanted down towards a spot you put your knees on. I remember LOVING this chair because they solved all my back issues from carrying around a 30lb backpack every day at school.
It's a little bit like those prayer benches I think, in the sense that you're sitting and putting weight on your knees, but I don't wholly know since I don't know what a prayer bench looks like. But you could try googling Posture Chair or something and see what comes up - they're good for back issues because they tend to force you into proper posture.

I think you mean this one

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/28/2010 1:32:24 PM

DesFIP

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You should find out what temp the pool is as water therapy should be done in warmer water than swimming laps.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 10/28/2010 1:38:05 PM

WolfyMontgomery

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Yes that one!!! It worked really well when I was younger, and it's "kneeling" =D

Now I really want another one... I wonder what happened to my parents' old one.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 11/14/2010 4:50:32 PM

kinkycouple4u72

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I just happened along this thread and want to say that I sympathize with her. I had an work related injury back in Feb 2010 and had to have neck surgery. Since the surgery I also have had problems doing certain things that I know my Master enjoys. I am not able to bend over for long periods of time, have trouble with kneeling also. In response to alternatives, we have utilized a bed and/or mat instead of having me kneel. I personally love when my Master ties me up, but since the surgery I am not able to keep my arms up over my head anymore. Instead, he ties me to the bed laying down since there is no pressure on my shoulders, neck and/or back.

Yes, there are alternatives which will make everyone happy.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 11/14/2010 5:56:25 PM

weaselwelder

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Going back to the original question:
What is it about kneeling that she finds enjoyment in? Is it the physical act on her part to adopt a submissive posture? Is it the physically dominating height and position advantage it grants you? Is it the comfort of doing something that has been part of your ritual for years? Is it something else?

I realize that the answer is "a bit of all of it," but if you two figure out which is the most important, I believe that it will be easier to find a way to replace that, and while not perfect, it might help.

Good luck.

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RE: Alternative approaches? [Dealing with injury] - 11/14/2010 7:26:39 PM

soul2share

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I'm having issues with a knee right now, kneeling for me is extremely painful, and if left in a kneeling position, I'm not getting up without help.....the knee will buckle and I end up doing a face plant right into his crotch.....which can be a mood killer, to say the least, cuz it's got some force behind it. I've tried kneeling on a pillow, it helps, but for now, I just sit on the floor.

I do understand how the OP's sub feels......not being able to kneel at his feet or to wait for him does make me feel a little blue......I love the feeling it gives me to be able to do that. And he's a great guy for looking out for her in the way he does. That's a rarity that I have yet to experience in a dom.....kudos!

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Post #: 37

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