RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (Full Version)

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cuckoldmepls -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:40:47 AM)

Conservatives live in reality. For example, we've already seen the Spanish tv commercials on our English speaking stations. It's only a matter of time before these stations either go all Spanish or put more Spanish programming on than English programming.

We also realize that you can't spend more money than you take in without having long term consequences for future generations. That is a fact. Democrats are only making the Illusionary economy worse for future generations. We will soon be paying half a trillion dollars in interest on the national debt each year. If you divide that up among each state. Each state is losing $10 billion dollars annually, and democrats have no intentions of stopping this financial drain.

Next, it is a fact that Muslim nations do not allow Christianity to flourish in their country, yet they expect us to bow down to them in our country and accept a Mosque on every block in America eventually. Plus, they fully expect to implement Sharia law when enough multiculturalists have taken over the federal court system and will allow it.

Let's talk about ethanol as well. Do you realize that the government is subsidizing ethanol production in America? Ethanol gas would cost over $4 a gallon if it weren't for the subsidies, and in turn, all our grocery prices have gone up about 10% over the past 4 or 5 years because of this. It also increases the use of fertilizers which poison our rivers and the Gulf dead zone.

Liberals dont live in reality.




tazzygirl -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:41:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. yeah.. amazing huh! Going green, by that i mean companies who are ready to sell the technology and are banking on madatory changes to fatten their bottom line

Course the real problem is that [it] need be mandatory. Going green impacts profits and because I feel entitled to a profit and the highest possible...you will need to give me another profit in going green or a tax benefit to offset the costs...of going green.

Going green via the tax code, is a tax on customers and wage earners.


I totally agree. I merely was pointing out that it isnt all about wall street.. or conservatives.

Unlike cucky, above, who feels only conservatives and wall street has money. [8|]




Moonhead -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:44:24 AM)

Until he starts bleating about Joe Biden's yacht again...




tazzygirl -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:45:33 AM)

LOL.. true enough.




Fellow -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:48:43 AM)

quote:

Is all American conservatism based upon fear?


I think it is true: conservatism is based on fear among other things. Fear is normal feeling though and it has many aspects that are not all negative. Neither conservative nor progressive politics lead always to better society or prosperity.  Real politics (liberal or conservative)  is often based on lies and deception. So, in democratic (hard to find these days) society both sides are useful.




mnottertail -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:54:02 AM)

 
quote:


Let's talk about ethanol as well. Do you realize that the government is subsidizing ethanol production in America? Ethanol gas would cost over $4 a gallon if it weren't for the subsidies, and in turn, all our grocery prices have gone up about 10% over the past 4 or 5 years because of this. It also increases the use of fertilizers which poison our rivers and the Gulf dead zone.

Liberals dont live in reality.


THIS 'LIBERAL'  back when ethanol first hit up on the news was shouting from the rooftops that it is the height of stupidity to base ethanol on graincrops, it is like making oil from platinum.

Hemp would produce 10 times the ethanol per acre, and would leave crop acres for crops, since it can be grown in fallows or on other ground unsuitable for cropping, without driving up our food supply and meat production costs.

I have posts about this all over here with citations. 

What the fuck conservatives got in the way of conservation?  Drill Baby Drill aint gonna work out for us, since you are so singlemindedly concerned for our future.
  





Moonhead -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 11:58:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
We also realize that you can't spend more money than you take in without having long term consequences for future generations.

Are you sure? Which Conservative President since the '70s has tried to cut government spending? Was it Reagan, or one of the Bushes? They seemed pretty oblivious to that fact, if memory serves.




PyrotheClown -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 12:07:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

No, but it is based on reality and the Constitution.

On the other hand, disdain for conservatives is based on jealousy of corporations and wealthy people, that is a fact. The bottom line is that one of the key components of freedom is the right to accumulate wealth. Communism doesn't allow that, and every step the democrats take is designed to make it more difficult to accumulate wealth.


Yeah, cause giving tax breaks to the working poor and providing easily accessible jobs really make it hard to accumulate wealth......while giving tax breaks to those who already have accumulated wealth is the way to make it easier to accumulate more wealth... Perfect logic there buddy

quote:

Conservatives live in reality. For example, we've already seen the Spanish tv commercials on our English speaking stations. It's only a matter of time before these stations either go all Spanish or put more Spanish programming on than English programming.

Yeah, cuz American tv is sooo rare, you can't find it any where else but here in the US......hahaha, shit even in Mexico you can find english(language) programing, even if you're fear mongering(can't believe you used this to argue the op)had any credibility, it's still complete crap.There's no way that advertisers are gonna spend more money on people who make less money.

quote:

We also realize that you can't spend more money than you take in without having long term consequences for future generations. That is a fact. Democrats are only making the Illusionary economy worse for future generations. We will soon be paying half a trillion dollars in interest on the national debt each year. If you divide that up among each state. Each state is losing $10 billion dollars annually, and democrats have no intentions of stopping this financial drain.

Well yeah,but our boys learned it from your guys golden child...Regan

quote:

Next, it is a fact that Muslim nations do not allow Christianity to flourish in their country, yet they expect us to bow down to them in our country and accept a Mosque on every block in America eventually. Plus, they fully expect to implement Sharia law when enough multiculturalists have taken over the federal court system and will allow it.

OK here's my reality check for you(feel free to cash it in at any participating open mind)
THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, we stay clear of religious matters when it comes to the control of our nation(christian or other).
Notice we have a shit load of Jews and Catholics in our country but we are still allowed to eat pork and bad mouth the pope any time we want.

quote:

Let's talk about ethanol as well. Do you realize that the government is subsidizing ethanol production in America? Ethanol gas would cost over $4 a gallon if it weren't for the subsidies, and in turn, all our grocery prices have gone up about 10% over the past 4 or 5 years because of this. It also increases the use of fertilizers which poison our rivers and the Gulf dead zone.


shit, we only use bout 1.4 percent of the corn in this country for human consumption(in the US, we export more) so the way I figure if we were to export less of it as corn, and produce more for ethanol (which might be in higher demand if we were to produce more of it) then we might find a way to rid our selves of all the foreign drama, with out ruining our shore line





MrRodgers -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 12:20:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

No, but it is based on reality and the Constitution.

On the other hand, disdain for conservatives is based on jealousy of corporations and wealthy people, that is a fact. The bottom line is that one of the key components of freedom is the right to accumulate wealth. Communism doesn't allow that, and every step the democrats take is designed to make it more difficult to accumulate wealth.

Just where does the constitution come into play ? Plus it is time to stop calling wall street...communists just because they are wards of the state...very rich and very much richer...wards of the state.

Actually liberalism is a fear the conservatives want to make them slaves again...that being a very lucrative profit center.

As for fear of the corporation...look it up. Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, Ben Franklin, George Mason et al...almost all of our founding fathers save for Washington who never passionately argued for their necessity to industrialize, leaving that capitalist scum...Hamilton, the only one and not surprisingly, carpet-bagger that he was...feared the corporation and were against it formation. Plus they feared a central (federal) banking system and treasury delegating in any way...the power of the currency.

For those who are pragmatists, learning, for a real objective analysis, the so-called corporation kinkroids...does not exist. Such a thing is born and lives on paper only and is simply a legal device allowing investors to profit privately, without risk...privately. ...and little things like lie to the public on earnings and liabilities, and defeating any measure to force corporate democracy for stockholders. Imagine, stockholders, owners of the company being denied by managment any voting power on the corp. board. Imagine lying through their teeth to those same investors. Making stockholders pay their fines for violating securities laws. Shall I go on ? Corporations will be the new govt. (fascism) or will cause our fall.

They do not serve society at large, do not create jobs, and simply further enrich only the opulent few...the investor class.




MrRodgers -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 12:41:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:


Let's talk about ethanol as well. Do you realize that the government is subsidizing ethanol production in America? Ethanol gas would cost over $4 a gallon if it weren't for the subsidies, and in turn, all our grocery prices have gone up about 10% over the past 4 or 5 years because of this. It also increases the use of fertilizers which poison our rivers and the Gulf dead zone.

Liberals dont live in reality.

THIS 'LIBERAL'  back when ethanol first hit up on the news was shouting from the rooftops that it is the height of stupidity to base ethanol on graincrops, it is like making oil from platinum.

Hemp would produce 10 times the ethanol per acre, and would leave crop acres for crops, since it can be grown in fallows or on other ground unsuitable for cropping, without driving up our food supply and meat production costs.

I have posts about this all over here with citations. 

What the fuck conservatives got in the way of conservation?  Drill Baby Drill aint gonna work out for us, since you are so singlemindedly concerned for our future.

Ethanol is repub corp. welfare and survives on corporations successfully propagandized the fraudulent 'greening' of gasoline to justify not only a direct subsidy but a .51/gal. tariff on Brazilian sugar ethanol, cheaper, kick'n our butt in production and...aren't using 2500 gals. of fresh water to make 1 gal. of ethanol as the US does.

(greening ? oxygen sensors in gas motors adjust mixtures and ignition changes cause a decrease in mileage and as much pollution in unburnt compounds and could damage motors and shorten part lifespan)

Obama has bought the green bullshit, kissed legislative ass and now wants upto 15% ethanol in our gas. Guess who is going to pay...at both ends ?




PatrickG38 -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 12:41:43 PM)

Freedom to accumulate wealth is nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration.




PatrickG38 -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 12:47:16 PM)

Thank you for proving my point. By the way does how Muslim countries act have to do with how we act (and there are plenty of Christian churches in 'Muslim' countries (or are Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, etc. not Muslim?)
Your fear is impressive and your idea that we should behave the way states with no regard for rights behave is disturbing.




PatrickG38 -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 12:55:14 PM)

I think there need to be two sides (at least) as well as long as the other side is serious and I see no indication of that.




MrRodgers -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:08:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

Freedom to accumulate wealth is nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration.

But it is not prohibited. The power to form an economy was vested to congress in several measures. The ICC or Interstate Commerce clause is one and has been used as a tool by corporations and business in general to assert federal laws usurpation state laws when it comes ot interstate commerce.

Not surprisingly federal law and subsequent court rulings have affirmed not only that to be the case but that almost ALL economic activity...involves interstate commerce. So the ruse that liberals wont govt. to control businesses though this clause, is only partly correct and has been in the interest of labor. It has in fact been the capitalist that has most benefited and particularly as it relates to federal law which they can more easily buy...superseding state law...50 states to buy...to expensive.




Lucylastic -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:09:15 PM)

fear, ignorance, hate, paranoia, selfishness, greed and sposed superiority
theres probably more to do with it, but heh thats my list




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:10:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

Freedom to accumulate wealth is nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration.


Neither is the right for the government to confiscate it.




PatrickG38 -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:12:50 PM)

No it is not. Although general republican philosophy thought a great disparity of wealth was detrimental to the health of the nation which is why people like Jefferson favored a nation of yoeman farmers (which obviously we are not). Indeed, all the founders except Hamilton would have been fairly concerned with avoid great wealth inequality as was the case in Europe at the time.




PeonForHer -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:25:14 PM)

Political conservatism has always been anxious about change, especially radical change.  Neoconservatism is much more clearly about fear.  The dread of the Soviet Union had to be replaced with something after its the break up and any credible threat from that quarter. Fear of terrorism has helped to fill the gap that communism had left behind.  Fear of terrorism helps maintain the cohesion of a nation against a common enemy.  It also justifies the authoritarianism that conservatives feel to be vital  in order to make society 'work'. 




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:44:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

  It also justifies the authoritarianism that conservatives feel to be vital  in order to make society 'work'. 


there is nothing more authoritarian than the redistribution of wealth.




mnottertail -> RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? (10/27/2010 1:53:49 PM)

Invading countries under false pretense, and then installing a puppet government is pretty authoritarian, at least in any neighborhood I've ever lived in, in The United States of America.




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