RE: Courtesy...

RE: Courtesy... (Full Version)

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SubPet715 -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 2:19:11 AM)
Courtesy is lost on many people, men and women alike. As it pertains to this site you simply need to get used to the fact that many people simply do not posses this quality. Even if you're messaging a slave/sub what have you, it doesn't dawn upon most people to stay humble and courteous. That is the part of the site most people hate but for every 100 people that will message you with a ahem concise albeit rude messages about what they may want, you will find that one who will give you the time of day you deserve. This may have been slightly off topic but it was something I was thinking of. Many times I will get a message that assumes since I am a sub that I don't deserve a level of courtesy that they extend towards most people. While that is a given for most, others...need some help.

allthatjaz -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 2:19:23 AM)
I rarely ask for anything with a question. I use absolutes and they are polite absolutes. I think it comes from having sons! If I had used words like 'can you?' I would of been opening a opportunity for them to say no and although I wouldn't expect a negative response from my submissive, I also don't see any reason to make my ask a question.

BurntKitty -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 3:00:58 AM)
Thanks everyone, I guess I just needed to rant. Oh, and now I'm hungry. Where's the strawberries & muffins? While I'm up, who wants coffee? [sm=coffee.gif][sm=coffee.gif] And there was a request for tea? Juice anyone?

tiggerspoohbear -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 5:49:08 AM)
I was brought up to be courteous and polite. And it's a lesson learned for life. I now try very hard not to be rude when replying to a nasty message received, with a "thanks, but no thanks" but there are just times when the bull has to be taken by the horns and told in no uncertain words that this will simply NOT do. As for any Dom I belong to, a request for a drink, a snack, whatever, I try to anticipate his needs and make sure that he's served before he asks for it. I just can't help it, his comfort comes first and I want to make sure it's there for him. The little things he shouldn't have to worry about, things I can do without even thinking about it. But if he was to get up to get himself that drink, that snack, I would expect the same courtesy back since he's already there. Nothing wrong with that, courtesy and being polite should run both ways. Nothing wrong with the occasional "get me a drink bitch" if it's meant in jest even though he wants the drink, but I wouldn't want someone to do this on a daily basis, I give respect, and expect it in return.

RavenMuse -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 6:01:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear But if he was to get up to get himself that drink, that snack, I would expect the same courtesy back since he's already there. Nothing wrong with that, courtesy and being polite should run both ways. Mine doesn't expect it, but I tend to... way I was raised, plus its simply more efficient... if I am getting something Myself it usually means she is busy doing something else (Possibly that I told her to do) so it would be more of a bother (Plus I'd find it odd... as in "why the hell would I do that?") to have her stop what she is doing to get something herself. Of course I might get Myself something, tease her with it and not allow her to have any Grin The fact that she doesn't expect it, whilst in some ways is appropriate, the reason she doesn't irritates Me.... the thoughtless wankers shes had in the past. quote: Nothing wrong with the occasional "get me a drink bitch" if it's meant in jest even though he wants the drink, but I wouldn't want someone to do this on a daily basis, I give respect, and expect it in return. Heh We banter a great deal and mostly if I say something in that manner it IS in jest.... othertimes its said in a low threatening growl that sends a shiver down her spine... again though, whilst not a jest it isn't negative. she is under no doubt that I value My property.

DesFIP -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 6:38:45 AM)
If he's getting water to drink with a meal, I would expect him to pour mine while I'm finishing dinner. And both of us are appreciative, sometimes with a smile instead of saying the words. But yes, "Honey can you get me more tea?" is not really something I can say no to, unless I've a really good reason. It's fine by me if there are so-called dominants who are unable to treat submissives with respect and courtesy, I figure it makes it easier for all those looking to toss them out of the running faster.

Nineveh -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 10:24:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!" yes. I generally never give an order in a rude way, although I will, sometimes, intone the word please in a way that makes it clear that it is not a choice on her part whether or not to comply. Someone who needs her orders to come in a rude way is generally someone I'd rather not be ordering around.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 10:47:05 AM)
I've had real issues with this, actually -- a key 'fetish' for me is Victorian/Steampunk household -- which is -really- pretty intense in courtesy and manners. I have, in my history, had a mouth like a trucker or sailor, and I can cuss along with the best of them and yell to raise a roof (My hereditary background is Irish and Sicilian -- talk about growing up with a genetic Mt. Vesuvius!!!)... however, I have -learned- to carry myself as a refined lady, and do my level best to maintain a dignified and appropriate level of decorum. This includes "please" and "thank you" when addressing our servants... it's just the way that it's done, at least by the Lady of the House, in a well-mannered household. The Lady of the House who has to yell and scream and cuss to get what she wants is considered to have poor self-control AND be unable to properly manage a household... with that in mind, I've had a great deal of difficulty with potential servants who don't think that it is an -order- unless I am curt, rude, or loud about it. I've come to the conclusion that this is a sub-set of the "humiliation" mindset, and with that in mind, I have started looking for this mindset in the individuals I interview to become a part of our household, along with watching to see how they manage simple courtesies like holding a door for me, or pulling out my chair when we meet in a public place. With that in mind, my response to the OP is that it certainly isn't for "vanilla" only... courtesy is something that lubricates interactions between individuals regardless of -how- they relate... and it is definitely a part of the D/s dynamic in our household and in many others. I'm not certain how this relates to "disobedience" though. If we have servants who have certain fetishes that they are looking to fulfill while a part of our household, one thing that we make very clear is that, if we agree that this is a fetish that someone in our household can fulfill, acts of disobedience will NOT result in participation in their fetish (most common for those who like spanking and such, from what I've encountered). If they disobey, there will be a discipline that will reinforce proper behavior... and they don't NEED to disobey or misbehave to get the fetish that they are seeking fulfillment for attended to -- all they have to do is make it known (in a -very- courteous manner, according to our household protocols) that they're 'antsy', and we do what we can to attend to that issue... doing so, IMO, is part of the responsibility that one takes on when one takes control of a servant. Admittedly, it may not happen right that very moment... but we will acknowledge the person's state, and will let them know that we've noticed and that we're not planning on leaving them hanging. To me, that is one of the courtesies that a Keeper extends as a good leader. Calla

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 10:55:41 AM)
quote: But if he was to get up to get himself that drink, that snack, I would expect the same courtesy back since he's already there. Nothing wrong with that, courtesy and being polite should run both ways. I have to say that I disagree with this tit-for-tat philosophy. In our household, I may -choose- to get up and get myself a snack, and I may -choose- to ask around to see if someone else wants one, but, quite frankly, the protocol in our household is that if our servant isn't doing something else, xhe will check in occasionally to see if we need anything and will procure it for us without complaint. By the same token, if I -do- get up to do something for myself, a servant in our household would never -expect- that that meant that I was taking care of everyone else OR the servant's interests. At first I was thinking that, perhaps, this was a difference in those who had a romantic as well as an authority-based relationship, but I've been assured by others of our Keepers that the same boundaries are in place with them, regardless of whether they have a romantic relationship with their servant(s), so perhaps it is just an idiosyncrasy of our more protocol-driven style of household. Calla

daddysprop247 -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 11:10:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: But if he was to get up to get himself that drink, that snack, I would expect the same courtesy back since he's already there. Nothing wrong with that, courtesy and being polite should run both ways. I have to say that I disagree with this tit-for-tat philosophy. In our household, I may -choose- to get up and get myself a snack, and I may -choose- to ask around to see if someone else wants one, but, quite frankly, the protocol in our household is that if our servant isn't doing something else, xhe will check in occasionally to see if we need anything and will procure it for us without complaint. By the same token, if I -do- get up to do something for myself, a servant in our household would never -expect- that that meant that I was taking care of everyone else OR the servant's interests. At first I was thinking that, perhaps, this was a difference in those who had a romantic as well as an authority-based relationship, but I've been assured by others of our Keepers that the same boundaries are in place with them, regardless of whether they have a romantic relationship with their servant(s), so perhaps it is just an idiosyncrasy of our more protocol-driven style of household. Calla i don't really consider our household to be high protocol, especially as there is no specifically defined structure or ritual to everyday goings-on...it is basically a Master and slave, a Dominant man and submissive female, being themselves guided by nature and common sense. it would never occur to me to expect my Master to bring me a drink or snack or whatever from the kitchen simply because he was getting one for himself. however...when he feels like it...sometimes he does, and i express humble gratitude because he did not have to do so. as for courtesy, i see no lack of consideration or respect in him not thinking to serve a slave. and if he truly respects my place as servant, why would he take that away from me by fluffing my pillows, refreshing my drinks, massaging my feet at every opportunity? talk about a scary idea! lol

PeonForHer -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 11:13:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear I was brought up to be courteous and polite. That made me laugh, for some reason. I was just thinking, have you ever heard someone say, "I was brought up to be ill-mannered and rude"

tiggerspoohbear -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 11:47:20 AM)
I was brought up to have manners. And some children are brought up with no manners, hence never polite or courteous. They think they deserve everything and act accordingly. I've seen it often with friends of mine and how their kids are brought up. No thought to others, no care of others but themselves. That's what I meant, and I apologize for not elaborating. As for high protocol and servants, I've never had a Dom with whom I've had that type of relationship. If a Dom would occasionally get himself something, he would ask if I wanted anything as he was already going to get it. I didn't expect it, but I was asked. That's if I wasn't already on my way to get what he wanted. It rarely happened that I didn't anticipate, I don't expect to be "rewarded" for what I consider is my obiensence to him. My dom always came first and I did everything possible to ensure that happened. I never resented a dom for what I did, it was what I wanted to do to please him and make him happy. That was my primary responsiblity and one I took and take seriously. I'm human, I make mistakes, I expect to be corrected for them, not punished as they are not meant to be a brat. No one is perfect, I would like to be but realize it's unatainable, yet I still strive for perfection. I can only be me, and that's the best me I can be.

BurntKitty -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 12:52:43 PM)
I didn't expect so many responses. I'm very happy to read that courtesy is alive and well.

hausboy -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 4:18:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW I've had real issues with this, actually -- a key 'fetish' for me is Victorian/Steampunk household -- which is -really- pretty intense in courtesy and manners. I have, in my history, had a mouth like a trucker or sailor, and I can cuss along with the best of them and yell to raise a roof ........, in a well-mannered household. The Lady of the House who has to yell and scream and cuss to get what she wants is considered to have poor self-control AND be unable to properly manage a household... ". Thanks Calla I know we share similiar views on this, since I have also served formal households. Like you, I have a wild past and have a smart/foul mouth that could make a sailor blush-- my Head of Household knew this--and she appreciated the effort it took me to exercise the "extreme" civility. I don't have much respect for the Head of Household who feels the need to bellow like a cow. It only takes a certain look from her--an icy edge to her voice--and it is far more communicative and effectual than yelling or barking orders. At one dinner party, I recall hearing her say, quietly, "Frederich..." and all I had to do was follow her gaze....which led me to the guest who had finished their dish and needed a fresh plate put in front of them. The guests had no idea there was anything amiss--she always appeared (and was) in complete control of the Household--but I certainly knew I had missed something, and that she would address it at a later time. always courteous and polite... and subtle. classy and elegant. man, I miss those dinnter parties!

January -> RE: Courtesy... (10/28/2010 4:51:43 PM)
Calla, I'm hoping folks won't mind the thread derailment, but what exactly is a steampunk/Victorian household? How do you live according steampunk or Victorian ideals? Mores and values? Or is it more a turn of the century adaptation of your environment? January

allthatjaz -> RE: Courtesy... (10/29/2010 12:35:06 AM)
I have to say that I have never, not even once, questioned our girls manners. I question other peoples manners all the time but never within our household.

leadership527 -> RE: Courtesy... (10/29/2010 2:38:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW At first I was thinking that, perhaps, this was a difference in those who had a romantic as well as an authority-based relationship... Hmmm, I'm not sure exactly if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with what Des described. It's certainly true that "requests" from me are not requests. It's also true that we don't have any sort of equivalence thing going on. Me getting something for myself or "being up" doesn't make me or her feel like I ought to be doing something for her. Just last night I was standing in the kitchen and she was working at a painting and I wanted some tea. I told her to make it for me. She wasn't irritated by this even though I was already there and doing nothing. That being said I DO do things for her. And yes, I suspect that's connected to romantic love. I'm a dominant personality doing as he wishes... but because I love her, some of what I wish is to do nice things for her. She is appreciative when I do so. To the OP, the "texture" of our relationship is that of two people who respect and love each other deeply. Courtesy is just a given. That and a lot of other things flow from the foundation of love & respect. Her becoming my slave only enhanced that foundation.

NuevaVida -> RE: Courtesy... (10/29/2010 7:40:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 To the OP, the "texture" of our relationship is that of two people who respect and love each other deeply. Courtesy is just a given. That and a lot of other things flow from the foundation of love & respect. Her becoming my slave only enhanced that foundation. This. If he's up to get himself something, I'll ask if he'd like me to get it, instead. Usually he says no, since he's already up, doing it. Had he wanted me to fetch it, he would have asked to begin with, but I like doing for him, so I ask. Sometimes he'll ask if I want something, sometimes he won't. I don't expect it, and I am not offended if it doesn't happen. Typically, it's just an oversight on his part, or he might be getting something he doesn't want me to have, etc. I don't question it, in fact, I really don't think anything of it. If I were in the middle of something and he was doing nothing, yet asked me to get him something, I would happily do so. Sure there has been the occasional time when stopping what I was doing would mean burning something on the stove, so I just let him know that, and he's cool with it. As for courtesy and manners, we love and respect each other, and treat each other as such. As for courtesy and manners for/from people outside our relationship, that's their business. If someone treats me rudely, it reflects on them, not me. The way I respond to that rudeness reflects on me, not them. Typically I find rude or discourteous people to not be very happy people, generally. So I don't take that stuff personally, by any means. As for courtesy = vanilla? I don't understand that line of thinking, at all. "Vanilla" to me just means a non-authority dynamic. Courtesy can successfully fit into any dynamic.

IronBear -> RE: Courtesy... (10/29/2010 8:03:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!" ehhh depends on my mood both work BadOne Same here but what I was referring to was the girls who seem to think only the later of the two is an order.... if she is serving Me then all she should need is to know what I want... I shouldn't need to always use either. I agree 100% brothers. Sadly courtesy and good manners are now seen as both submissive and a sigh of weakness. I tend to be rather short in temper when faced with loud, ill mannered and discourteous lout which probable will land be before the local beak for decking some yobbo. As I am want to repeat the mantra my parents instilled in me: "Good manners and courtesy cost nothing". Mind you I was brought up with the manners and mannerisms of the Victorian/Edwardian period and hence it has been ingrained in me from an early age.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Courtesy... (10/29/2010 9:22:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January Calla, I'm hoping folks won't mind the thread derailment, but what exactly is a steampunk/Victorian household? How do you live according steampunk or Victorian ideals? Mores and values? Or is it more a turn of the century adaptation of your environment? January May I correspond on the other side about this? Thank you, Calla

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