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Division - 4/26/2006 3:55:15 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		After reading the thread in Ask a Master regarding non-sexual domination, I felt the need to post the following explanatory type thread. I hope that it doesn't come off as terribly ranty.

When I first started out in BDSM, I wanted to fit in. I discovered, rather quickly, that I couldn't. After all, there were so many random divisions and style sub-sets from the original "BDSM" term, I couldn't figure out how to appropriately pick a side.

It occurs to me that every side feels put off by the others. According to some of the posters in the Ask a Master thread, the non-sexual D/s and M/s practioners feel that they're estranged from the rest of the BDSM population, because they do not engage in or rarely engage in S&M acts or sex acts. Funny, but I always saw that group (the "We do don't do it for the sex" group) as the most widely-accepted group in the BDSM community, particularly among people I've met online (though they don't necessarily practice entirely online).

Then, there's the group I belong to-the S&M only group. I've noticed that many S&M only-ers are looked down upon as "players" or sex addicts maybe? We're only in it for the pain, or the afterglow, or the sensuality. Perhaps that's the case, but it seems as though we too are estranged, particularly by those who don't engage in the sex or the s&m.

And then there's the best of both worlds group. Perhaps they, too, are estranged. After all, they're engaging in the deviance of S&M and the stringent M/s or D/s.

Is it actually possible that we're all worried that we're doing it wrong? Or worse, that our particular group is the only one doing it right?

Ugh, sometimes the whole crazy community reminds me of the battle of Western Religion. bleh.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:00:15 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Frustrating yet Grand we all have a place.
Too bad the English language leaves to much gray or it would 
be so much easier to note for others what shelf we fit on.
Sure would make alot of the BS go away.

~grr~
Q


_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:05:13 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		You just can't worry about others being fulfilled. I'm happy so what I do is right for me. Himself is happy. So what he does is right for him. Together we do well, apart, not so well. How we get there doesn't effect anyone else but if I can share what works for us and someone else finds it useful, it's all good. More often than not it won't work for others and that's ok. It doesn't gotta. ;)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:12:14 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline 		This is why I think SIGs and specific forums, and sub-groups, and sister organizations, and XYZ night,,, are so needed.

At some point in time having a million other people with some common interests,
just isn't as cozy as having a dozen people who truly understand.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:14:50 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		None of us do it "wrong".
I understand the motivations of most of the groups,having done all three sides in my time. I think a mix is fun-but I no longer see sex as a primary bonding mechanism.  You see,hormonal and chemical reactions are usually not controllable-and a control freak just hates that sort of thing.

The results aren't always consistent-things go wrong,or backfire. So a lot of people who began with sm play wander away from it after a time-convinced it's only superficial. And to some exent-it is-and addictive.

Mow the down side of having a control fixation is developing a rigid mindset-you finally come up with a structure that works(or that you imagine works) and come hell or high water-you are not about to abandon something you have put so much work into.

Such constructs often get labeled (my true way) and then become the stencil that everything else has to be measured against. I suffered from this sort of thing in the past-until it dawned on me that I was going to have to be more adapatable-

That there was NO way I would be able to foretell and plan for every last detail that was ever going to happen to me and mine.

These days I only look at what individuals have to offer in a broader scope. I don't care as much about thier "hobbies" so long as they are not too compulsive or obssessed with them.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:20:38 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		Hear Hear, I couldn't agree with Celeste more.  I am happy, my little ones happy and we make a great pair.  I couldn't give a flip what anyone else thinks or what boxes we do or do not fit into.
We were at a dungeon party last weekend and one of the comments made about us by others there was how insync, relaxed, and happy we looked with one another whether we were just sitting watching or when she was hanging on the cross being flogged.
Which in the end is all that matters to me,  we're happy.

K

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:26:49 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I'm of the opinion that it is all because of the political correctness which made people aware that they were suposed to use labelas and exist i predesigned boxes... I am of the view we need to step back to Elizabethan POeriods before spelling (surely one of the early forms of "Correctness" so we can talk how we think and the way we thing Phonetics are wonderfull... We can each have our own kinkiness and just group all sames  together and leave everyone else alone...... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:27:46 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

After reading the thread in Ask a Master regarding non-sexual domination, I felt the need to post the following explanatory type thread. I hope that it doesn't come off as terribly ranty.

When I first started out in BDSM, I wanted to fit in. I discovered, rather quickly, that I couldn't. After all, there were so many random divisions and style sub-sets from the original "BDSM" term, I couldn't figure out how to appropriately pick a side.

It occurs to me that every side feels put off by the others. According to some of the posters in the Ask a Master thread, the non-sexual D/s and M/s practioners feel that they're estranged from the rest of the BDSM population, because they do not engage in or rarely engage in S&M acts or sex acts. Funny, but I always saw that group (the "We do don't do it for the sex" group) as the most widely-accepted group in the BDSM community, particularly among people I've met online (though they don't necessarily practice entirely online).

Then, there's the group I belong to-the S&M only group. I've noticed that many S&M only-ers are looked down upon as "players" or sex addicts maybe? We're only in it for the pain, or the afterglow, or the sensuality. Perhaps that's the case, but it seems as though we too are estranged, particularly by those who don't engage in the sex or the s&m.

And then there's the best of both worlds group. Perhaps they, too, are estranged. After all, they're engaging in the deviance of S&M and the stringent M/s or D/s.

Is it actually possible that we're all worried that we're doing it wrong? Or worse, that our particular group is the only one doing it right?

Ugh, sometimes the whole crazy community reminds me of the battle of Western Religion. bleh.


I don't think anyone is doing it wrong, I/we are doing what is right for us, that simple. I don't see the BDSM as an important or integral part of our lives. That's not to say we don't do it, that's to say it isn't what we base anything on.
 
I don't feel put off by the way others do wiitwd, nor do I feel like they are shunning me and mine. There are tops and bottoms, dominants and submissives, owners and slaves and switches, and being honest, there is probably a lot more orientations out there. So rather then clog up the web sites with forty different "labels" to choose from (and yes, I think "labels" are important), why not just be totally blunt and straight foreward in the profiles? I know that quite a few are and I think that's great. But if you are in it for the kink then say so... really, it's great, it fine, it's wonderful. And if you are in it for the service aspect, that's great to... just be honest. It really isn't that hard to do.
 
And I'm sorry if I sound judgemental or like I'm ranting, I don't mean it to sound that way... I guess what I really want to say to the people on here that see it as a game... please keep in mind that there are real people behind the screen and just because you don't have to look them in the eye doesn't mean they don't exist.

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 4:40:17 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

 But if you are in it for the kink then say so... really, it's great, it fine, it's wonderful. And if you are in it for the service aspect, that's great to... just be honest. It really isn't that hard to do.
 
I guess what I really want to say to the people on here that see it as a game... please keep in mind that there are real people behind the screen and just because you don't have to look them in the eye doesn't mean they don't exist.


Amen!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 5:57:31 PM   
JassWolf


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		So far as the sense of alienation is concerned, it actually seems to unify us. After all, do you know anyone who doesn't feel -- most of the time -- like an outsider?

One of my favorite New Yorker cartoons shows a huge auditorium with a banner above the stage announcing "The Annual Meeting of Normal People."

In the auditorium there are two people .... sitting far apart.

JW

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 6:20:28 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

After reading the thread in Ask a Master regarding non-sexual domination, I felt the need to post the following explanatory type thread. I hope that it doesn't come off as terribly ranty.

When I first started out in BDSM, I wanted to fit in. I discovered, rather quickly, that I couldn't. After all, there were so many random divisions and style sub-sets from the original "BDSM" term, I couldn't figure out how to appropriately pick a side.

It occurs to me that every side feels put off by the others. According to some of the posters in the Ask a Master thread, the non-sexual D/s and M/s practioners feel that they're estranged from the rest of the BDSM population, because they do not engage in or rarely engage in S&M acts or sex acts. Funny, but I always saw that group (the "We do don't do it for the sex" group) as the most widely-accepted group in the BDSM community, particularly among people I've met online (though they don't necessarily practice entirely online).

Then, there's the group I belong to-the S&M only group. I've noticed that many S&M only-ers are looked down upon as "players" or sex addicts maybe? We're only in it for the pain, or the afterglow, or the sensuality. Perhaps that's the case, but it seems as though we too are estranged, particularly by those who don't engage in the sex or the s&m.

And then there's the best of both worlds group. Perhaps they, too, are estranged. After all, they're engaging in the deviance of S&M and the stringent M/s or D/s.

Is it actually possible that we're all worried that we're doing it wrong? Or worse, that our particular group is the only one doing it right?

Ugh, sometimes the whole crazy community reminds me of the battle of Western Religion. bleh.


I don't think anyone is doing it wrong, I/we are doing what is right for us, that simple. I don't see the BDSM as an important or integral part of our lives. That's not to say we don't do it, that's to say it isn't what we base anything on.
 
I don't feel put off by the way others do wiitwd, nor do I feel like they are shunning me and mine. There are tops and bottoms, dominants and submissives, owners and slaves and switches, and being honest, there is probably a lot more orientations out there. So rather then clog up the web sites with forty different "labels" to choose from (and yes, I think "labels" are important), why not just be totally blunt and straight foreward in the profiles? I know that quite a few are and I think that's great. But if you are in it for the kink then say so... really, it's great, it fine, it's wonderful. And if you are in it for the service aspect, that's great to... just be honest. It really isn't that hard to do.
 
And I'm sorry if I sound judgemental or like I'm ranting, I don't mean it to sound that way... I guess what I really want to say to the people on here that see it as a game... please keep in mind that there are real people behind the screen and just because you don't have to look them in the eye doesn't mean they don't exist.
...I am making a note to myself to try to beat Shifted Jewel to the Forum posts so that I do not have to continually follow behind and agree with her..GRRR.......Tempting

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 6:35:30 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

It occurs to me that every side feels put off by the others. According to some of the posters in the Ask a Master thread, the non-sexual D/s and M/s practioners feel that they're estranged from the rest of the BDSM population, because they do not engage in or rarely engage in S&M acts or sex acts......

Then, there's the group I belong to-the S&M only group......

And then there's the best of both worlds group. Perhaps they, too, are estranged. After all, they're engaging in the deviance of S&M and the stringent M/s or D/s.
I think you have actually stumbled onto what some of the problem is, but I believe that although opening up the field would be good as far as universal acceptance, it does have it's drawbacks. I agree partially with IronBear when he says "I'm of the opinion that it is all because of the political correctness which made people aware that they were supposed to use labels and exist in predesigned boxes... ", but I think it is also good that there are some basic boxes, maybe not the little ones, but the broad range ones. They need seperated better however and although it's tough, choices need to be made on where one fits, or a decision needs made if one thinks they might be a blend. I am of the opinion that D/s & M/s does not have anything to do with BDSM. They can co-exist, but one is not dependent on the other. For that matter, I don't know that BD always has anything to do with SM either. There are serious similarities, but I can fathom one without the other. Certainly everyone IN a relationship or an established dynamic says, SO WHAT, what I have works great for us (or me, or whatever), I can do that as well. BUT I get real tired of hearing "it depends on your situation", that's about as politically correct and an evasive answer as I have ever heard. It offers absolutely no assistance to someone who is asking questions and trying to find themselves. They are told "Oh well, it doesn't matter" when it really does, it's the way you put up that sign that says I am looking for THIS or I am interested in THAT. For those looking, for those who are seeking that match, they are often being grouped into a very very large box just makes the selection nearly impossible to narrow down. I'm not the least concerned if "I" am doing it wrong, I feel that I have it right for me as many do, but I am concerned and actually sorry that because people don't differentiate what they are looking for, or are not perhaps honest about what they are looking for, that many will never seize the opportunity to find out what it feels like to do it right, for themselves. It's not the needle in the proverbial haystack at this point, it's like trying to find the needle on the farm.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 6:48:40 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Seconds Tempting's idea.......totally agreeing with ShiftedJewel on this one.......cannot even think of one extra thing to add.........dammit

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Division - 4/26/2006 6:52:16 PM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

This is why I think SIGs and specific forums, and sub-groups, and sister organizations, and XYZ night,,, are so needed.

At some point in time having a million other people with some common interests,
just isn't as cozy as having a dozen people who truly understand.

Okay, even though I've been doing my own thing my adult life, it's just not been talking to alot of different people about it, so I get lost with all the acronyms. Some I've been able to figure out, others I'm lost with. The ones I know are IMO, and IMHO, all the others, I've no clue. Please help.
Thanks

___________________
ahhhhh I see sounds

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 14
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