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South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 4:07:37 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Brazil - about to elect (hopefully) former marxist rebel Dilma Rousseff as President.
Argentina - President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is from the leftist Justicialist party.
Chile - currently led by a rightist, after 20 years of leftist leadership.
Venezuela - led by left-winger Hugo Chavez.
Ecuador - Rafael Correa, left winger
Colombia - neoliberal? Alvaro Uribe
Peru - about to enter elections, but currently the leftist Alan Garcia is in charge
Uruguay - President Jose Mujica - leftist
Paraguay - President Fernando Lugo - centre left
Bolivia - President Evo Morales - leftist
Guyana - President Bharrat Jagdeo - leftist
Suriname - President Ronald Venetiaan - centre left
Guyana - President Bharra Jagdeo - leftist

Why is South America so sensible about its politics? Is it because socialism works better in poorer countries, or is it that having the USA as a neighbour is enough to make anyone a socialist?

Ideas, anyone?
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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 4:09:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Socialism works great in poorer countries..if keeping them poor is the objective.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 4:10:04 PM   
hertz


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Status: offline 		If keeping poor people poor is the objective, capitalism works pretty well.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 4:21:29 PM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Peru - about to enter elections, but currently the leftist Alan Garcia is in charge
Ideas, anyone?


That'd be Alan Garcia who stole millions of dollars from the government the previous time he was in Peru, and who ran against the man who ran a vigilante group against the people of Peru?  Hmmm? That Alan Garcia?  I'll tell you, in Peru, he's considered their version of a Republican.

Who did he run against?  Ollanta - well people were afraid that if he came into power, people would start disappearing.

Just a thought.
best,
sunshine

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 4:30:48 PM   
hertz


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Status: offline 		Hopefully, the Peruvians will elect a more honest socialist this time round, but the polls apparently suggest a swing to the right.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 4:36:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If keeping poor people poor is the objective, capitalism works pretty well.


Dont let facts spoil your ignorance. There has never been a successful socialist government, and find another place in the world where the poor are better off than in the US.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 5:15:59 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		<snip>find another place in the world where the poor are better off than in the US.</end snip>

LMFAOPIMP Seriously?


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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 11:21:01 PM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If keeping poor people poor is the objective, capitalism works pretty well.


Dont let facts spoil your ignorance. There has never been a successful socialist government, and find another place in the world where the poor are better off than in the US.


Perhaps.  But I will say this.  Americans are some of the most unhappy people (as a whole) that I've ever seen.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 10/31/2010 11:30:35 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

.........LMFAOPIMP Seriously?



Pimp? Translation (pretty please)?

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 10/31/2010 11:31:41 PM >

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 12:37:18 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		pissing in my pants?

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 5:32:27 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Socialism works great in poorer countries..if keeping them poor is the objective.


And if everyone was financially poor, but because of their 'socialist' system they had everything they needed would there be any need for certain people to try to rise above others or is that need to rise above others in reality a mental illness along the lines of meglomania.

Capitalism is about rich and poor, those who have much opposed to those who have little or nothing, it is an unbalanced system where strife always exists and is in fact encouraged as it is good for business, people matter less.

Money and wealth is overrated, it does not lead to happiness, only the need to maintain that wealth against all those who wish to take it from you, if you have nothing, there is nothing to take so therefore without the need to guard the pot of gold, people can get on with life with very few cares.

As an indication, all those that I have known to be the poorest and most challenged in life have been the best people I have known, for they will share what they have and even give what they cannot afford, whereas all those that I have known who were wealthy were in ways disagreeable people, suspicious and not so friendly beyondwhat one can do for them.

There is much happiness to be had in poverty and I would rather be poor and happy than rich and suspicious of all that come near.

Good Luck to South America.


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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 5:34:12 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Why is South America so sensible about its politics? Is it because socialism works better in poorer countries, or is it that having the USA as a neighbour is enough to make anyone a socialist?

Ideas, anyone?


Socialism rests upon the absurd idea that I will work as hard for your family as I will my own, so calling it sensible is almost a non sequitur.

However, I have a personal theory that Catholicism is non-conducive to capitalism....

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 5:53:34 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Why is South America so sensible about its politics? Is it because socialism works better in poorer countries, or is it that having the USA as a neighbour is enough to make anyone a socialist?

Ideas, anyone?


Socialism rests upon the absurd idea that I will work as hard for your family as I will my own, so calling it sensible is almost a non sequitur.

However, I have a personal theory that Catholicism is non-conducive to capitalism....


You think the idea is absurd, but would you think that if that other family that you work hard for as well as your own also themselves did the same and their neighbour ad finitum, could you see the benefits in that or is it even if others were happy about working hard for your family as they did for their own you still would not comply because you think the idea is absurd.

I believe in equality for all and with that elected leaders who are not above the voter, but answerable to them for their failings and successes, I support a cohesive community not a fragmented state of scrabblers scrabbling for a foot hold on the heads of others to get to the top where they believe all will be sweetness and light, it is so primitive.



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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 5:58:39 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

but would you think that if that other family that you work hard for as well as your own also themselves did the same


You are also free to believe in unicorns.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 7:01:31 AM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If keeping poor people poor is the objective, capitalism works pretty well.


Dont let facts spoil your ignorance. There has never been a successful socialist government, and find another place in the world where the poor are better off than in the US.


It depends on what you mean by 'successful'. If successful means enduring despite consigning millions to a life of grinding poverty, then yes, in comparison with capitalism, socialism has failed. The thing I find most amazing about capitalism is its ability to convince even the poorest that they have a chance, despite generations of evidence to the contrary. Nowadays, I tend to think of capitalism in the same way as I think of gambling - the punters go in with dreams of striking it lucky and winning big, but we all know that actually, there isn't really a hope in hell for most people. But still they play.

I'm not going to get into your dumb argument about the poor in the US be richer than elsewhere. Both you and I know that unless you qualify your terms, you are actually talking shite.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 7:06:17 AM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Socialism rests upon the absurd idea that I will work as hard for your family as I will my own, so calling it sensible is almost a non sequitur.

However, I have a personal theory that Catholicism is non-conducive to capitalism....


It might be absurd to expect you, personally, to care about anyone but yourself, I don't know. But it isn't absurd to think that some us do care, passionately, about the plight of the poor to the point where we are willing to make sacrifices to help our fellow human beings.

Catholicism has much that is not so good about it, but there is also much to commend. The collectivism that Catholicism suggests falls into the latter category, in my opinion.

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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 7:40:28 AM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Why is South America so sensible about its politics? Is it because socialism works better in poorer countries, or is it that having the USA as a neighbour is enough to make anyone a socialist?

Ideas, anyone?


Socialism rests upon the absurd idea that I will work as hard for your family as I will my own, so calling it sensible is almost a non sequitur.

However, I have a personal theory that Catholicism is non-conducive to capitalism....


I wasn't thinking Catholicism, I was thinking 'native'. My suspicion is that cultural holdovers from the original (and still kicking) inhabitants are disinclined towards capitalism.

Though up here in the U.S., the Iroquois took to it pretty well. Businesses, frontier towns, the beginnings of a pretty up-to-date civilization... they had a real thing going for a while. Too bad we kicked the snot out of them for their audacity. :-/


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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 8:49:26 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

It might be absurd to expect you, personally, to care about anyone but yourself,


I did not say that, nor is it true.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 9:30:40 AM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

It might be absurd to expect you, personally, to care about anyone but yourself,


I did not say that, nor is it true.


Oh, yeah - you mentioned your family as well.

quote:

Socialism rests upon the absurd idea that I will work as hard for your family as I will my own




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RE: South America - saviours of the world! - 11/1/2010 12:45:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

If keeping poor people poor is the objective, capitalism works pretty well.


Dont let facts spoil your ignorance. There has never been a successful socialist government, and find another place in the world where the poor are better off than in the US.


Perhaps.  But I will say this.  Americans are some of the most unhappy people (as a whole) that I've ever seen.


You might want to look at the suicide rates in some of the proclaimed models of socialism.

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