RE: Punishing a Sub

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Punishing a Sub

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Punishing a Sub

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 2:00:50 AM

BonesFromAsh

Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
Bones, I understand why you used funishment. I'm trying to figure a way around it.

I don't see a reason for needing to adjust, change or figure a way around the meaning of a word...or in the case of funishment, a concept. You want a certain style of play, that's fine. Call it fantasy, call it roleplay but you're still, in my opinion, talking about play.

You can dress a pig up in fine silks and try to pass it off as something different, but in the end you still have a pig in fancy dress.

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 21

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 7:28:29 AM

YSG

Posts: 1001
Joined: 8/6/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG
Dicipline and submission do not come from the end of a whip, or the face of a paddle. They come from within.

I do not serve out of fear, or want of reward. I serve out of love. I do my Lady's bidding, because I wish to see her happy and content.

I feel that my task, as her submissive, is to make her life easier and less stressful through my service, instead of making it harder and more stressful through disobedience, negligence, or sheer foolishness.

You rock. You Get It. If you were bisexual and local, or if I didn't already have a full poly leather family, I'd be eyeing you quite speculatively. Good luck in your search, and with that winning attitude I am confident that a quality femdom will snatch you up sooner rather than later.

Well thank you. I actually went and made it my profile statement

_____________________________

Our duty is to hold ourselves responsible to the people. Every word, every act and every policy must conform to the people's interests, and if mistakes occur, they must be corrected - that is what being responsible to the people means- Mao Zedong

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

Post #: 22

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 8:51:30 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

OP, if you consider having pain play as play to be a problem, and that you need to be told you are a bad person, then maybe what you need to do is figure out why you need to be punished and address that issue instead. Because that isn't a very healthy attitude. It will cause you to disappoint and hurt your partner in order to do things bad enough that you get punished. But if your partner doesn't like this, it may well not get you punished, but instead cause the relationship to end. Isn't that the worst punishment? Forcing someone to give up on you and walk away? Is that what you really want?

If your desires are things you feel so guilty about that you can only accept them when in the form of punishment, I strongly urge you to get help accepting your desires. What's so wrong about needing a strong sensation that you can only accept it if you feel that you're a bad person? Do you feel that people who eat spicy foods (also a strong sensation) are bad people? Are amateur boxers or runners bad people per se because they enjoy the strong physical sensations of their sports? So why is it that if you enjoy it during sex, that makes you a bad person who needs to be punished? This is the issue you need to address, not how to successfully lie to yourself that you don't enjoy the things you do. I wish you good luck doing so.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to YSG)

Post #: 23

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 8:52:40 AM

NovelApproach

Posts: 150
Joined: 3/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

Bones, I understand why you used funishment. I'm trying to figure a way around it.

"Funishment" is just a term we use to distinguish between two very different things. You don't have to use the term yourself, but if what it describes is what you really want, you ought to be able to recognize it and own up to it. Look at the two definitions below, figure out which one is the one you mean, and then make sure you know how to communicate that to your Top.

Punishment - real, actual Punishment - is what happens when someone does something wrong and there is an aversive consequence. It is not fun, it is not arousing, it is a teaching tool. It should come rarely but be used consistently. It is not in and of itself hot, but may be part of a larger control dynamic that is. If you're doing everything right, you don't need it and won't get it.

Funishment or "punishment" - is when a sub desires something that is generally considered unpleasant, but is somehow enjoyable to the sub. This enjoyable act may happen either by itself with no context, or under the pretense of the sub having done something "wrong," such as failing to complete an impossible task. It's meant to be enjoyable, preferably for both partners, and will likely occur frequently. If this is what you actually want, the punishment you crave is actually a reward, then if you "want to please and work very hard to do everything right" there is absolutely no "risk of not getting the punishment that [you] need" provided you've communicated this to your Top.

_____________________________

Don't talk at me about the joystick and buttons... tell me about the game.

Sure, I'll Dungeon Master for you. Do you like Eberron? ...oh. That kind of dungeon.

Is it just me or do Theatre Majors make excellent play partners?

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 24

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 4:11:31 PM

lickenforyou

Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
Bones, I understand why you used funishment. I'm trying to figure a way around it.

I don't see a reason for needing to adjust, change or figure a way around the meaning of a word...or in the case of funishment, a concept. You want a certain style of play, that's fine. Call it fantasy, call it roleplay but you're still, in my opinion, talking about play.

You can dress a pig up in fine silks and try to pass it off as something different, but in the end you still have a pig in fancy dress.

Of course it's all play and fantasy. I find it hilarious that people are so concerned about what I call it. For me, the more realistic it can be the hotter it is. I'm new and have now found out, thanks to LadyPact, that what I am looking for is a specific type of role playing. And, that there are Dommes who enjoy that type of play.

Thanks for your input, though.

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)

Post #: 25

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 4:20:51 PM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Greetings

For me you can call it whatever you want, I am just a bit curious why you find it more realistic when someone say you are a bad boy and make up some excuse for "punishment" versus someone just saying you are mine and I enjoy spanking you bend over and take it! How do pretending that it is punishment make it more realistic?

I wish you well.

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 26

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 4:24:21 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

To the OP:
People are not concerned about what you call it so much as you aren't hearing them and you aren't being clear. EVERYONE is talking about the same thing, not just Lady Pact. You are merely ignoring the rest of the people.

In a writing only environment, it is easy to inadvertently create mistakes. Thus, the use of emoticons, clarifying statements, and the expression of definitions are all an important part of understanding each other. People are respecting the board and the people using it when they clarify in these ways.

Your post above is condescending and snotty. Your dismissal of a good number of well respected, intelligent, insightful comments says a lot about you. Only one thing left to say to that -

good luck,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 11/3/2010 4:47:15 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 27

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 4:25:43 PM

lickenforyou

Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

OP, if you consider having pain play as play to be a problem, and that you need to be told you are a bad person, then maybe what you need to do is figure out why you need to be punished and address that issue instead. Because that isn't a very healthy attitude. It will cause you to disappoint and hurt your partner in order to do things bad enough that you get punished. But if your partner doesn't like this, it may well not get you punished, but instead cause the relationship to end. Isn't that the worst punishment? Forcing someone to give up on you and walk away? Is that what you really want?

If your desires are things you feel so guilty about that you can only accept them when in the form of punishment, I strongly urge you to get help accepting your desires. What's so wrong about needing a strong sensation that you can only accept it if you feel that you're a bad person? Do you feel that people who eat spicy foods (also a strong sensation) are bad people? Are amateur boxers or runners bad people per se because they enjoy the strong physical sensations of their sports? So why is it that if you enjoy it during sex, that makes you a bad person who needs to be punished? This is the issue you need to address, not how to successfully lie to yourself that you don't enjoy the things you do. I wish you good luck doing so.

It is quite the study of human nature that someone who enjoys being submissive or dominant to another person thinks that I may want to "get help"

Ha ha, what I'm into is OK. What someone else desires is unhealthy...

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 28

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 4:29:16 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

Thus the need to clarify funishment and punishment. See there - you have been talking about punishment when you mean funishment. Celeste (DesFIP) took you at your word that when you said "punishment", you actually meant it.

ETA: It is not, as you say, "all play and fantasy". That is the part you are missing. You have this idea in your head that it is in fact all play and fantasy. In fact, if you were to ask LADYPACT if her interactions with clip are "all play and fantasy" would tell you it certainly is not (LP - excuse me please if I overstep or have spoken out of turn. Please, of course correct me if I'm inaccurate here).

Please note: YOU ARE WRONG. FOR SOME PEOPLE IT IS NOT ALL PLAY AND FANTASY. Some of those people are here. They are trying to help you be clear and to understand more than just what your ego-driven mind is saying. The fact that you can't see that other people have different perspectives on wiitwd shows what kind of person you are.

It's fine for it to be all roleplay for you. That's totally cool. What is *NOT* cool is that you are using the wrong word DELIBERATELY and then dismissing people based on their use of the the right word. You created this mess by your pigheadedness. And now you are taunting people because of this mess of your own making.

What is that thing crazy ml has as his tag line? Seems appropriate here.

best,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 11/3/2010 4:53:44 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 29

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 5:23:02 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

You did just fine, sunshine. You always do.

I tend to think it's discussions like this one was one of the reasons that people came up with the word "funishment" in the first place. It helps to avoid the confusion on the issue. I tend not to use the word very often Myself. I stick more toward punishment meaning a consequence for an offense or fault and role play for those times where no real offense has been made (one that I really wouldn't care about or feel that a person should be punished for) but I want those emotions related to the activity.

In My opinion, the majority of us who do have a punishment dynamic also have other corrective methods in place. Mine is very much like what many people would be familiar with from their employee infraction policy at work. You don't fire somebody for being late the first time, but if it's repeated behavior, you take them through the steps of corrective action. Of course, there are also offenses that you would fire an employee outright, because whatever they did is that serious.

Some people do want the freeing feeling of being punished, without there actually being a serious issue in the dynamic. That's where the role play comes in. It's getting those same emotions to come out without there being any real disruption in the dynamic. Some don't know how to channel this, and it can come out in other ways, such as the submissive really disrupting the dynamic in order to get it. That makes for unhappy people, even though the craving is being met.

There is a difference in My eyes between clip having done something that has displeased Me to the point where I have gotten to the last resort on the matter. If I'm punishing him in the proper sense of the word, we have probably gotten to the point of either the issue changes or the dynamic ends. Not good. On the other hand, I can get him to reach the same kind of emotions because that is the way I want him to feel, without there being anything of relevance wrong.

Des wasn't entirely off of the mark, either. Some people use these kinds of scenarios for various reasons and not all of them are necessarily good for you. One that does come up quite often is that some will specifically crave this kind of play in an attempt to solve guilt issues. In cases like those, you still have to look at what is driving the impulse. I'm not going to say anymore about that because I'm not going to attempt to explain the various theories linked with psychology. I'm not qualified. At the same time, OP, it might be beneficial for you to identify why this kind of play appeals to you. Does it stem from feelings of guilt, failure, sexual excitement, or dozens of other origins? (Sharing that info with your Domme can actually give her more material to work with.)

One last thing. The folks on the thread really are attempting to discuss the topic with you. Please treat them in that light.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 30

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 5:24:49 PM

lickenforyou

Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Thus the need to clarify funishment and punishment. See there - you have been talking about punishment when you mean funishment. Celeste (DesFIP) took you at your word that when you said "punishment", you actually meant it.

ETA: It is not, as you say, "all play and fantasy". That is the part you are missing. You have this idea in your head that it is in fact all play and fantasy. In fact, if you were to ask LADYPACT if her interactions with clip are "all play and fantasy" would tell you it certainly is not (LP - excuse me please if I overstep or have spoken out of turn. Please, of course correct me if I'm inaccurate here).

Please note: YOU ARE WRONG. FOR SOME PEOPLE IT IS NOT ALL PLAY AND FANTASY. Some of those people are here. They are trying to help you be clear and to understand more than just what your ego-driven mind is saying. The fact that you can't see that other people have different perspectives on wiitwd shows what kind of person you are.

It's fine for it to be all roleplay for you. That's totally cool. What is *NOT* cool is that you are using the wrong word DELIBERATELY and then dismissing people based on their use of the the right word. You created this mess by your pigheadedness. And now you are taunting people because of this mess of your own making.

What is that thing crazy ml has as his tag line? Seems appropriate here.

best,
sunshine

First of all, I had no problem with Bone's funishment reply. It simply didn't answer my question. LadyPact took the time to explain to me the difference. And, took the time to explain how I could get it.

Most everyone else wanted to tell me how wrong it was to want it.

I got three paragraphs on my screen name. Which had nothing to do with my question.

And, most went into diatribes about going overboard with my request. I asked about one aspect of a relationship. I never said that I would demand it to the exclusion of my partners needs

And, of course it's all fantasy and role playing. People may take it seriously but no one is an actual slave. No one is an actual master.

NovelApproach also gave me a great response, but that was just recently.

I'm also not sure what comment you thought was snotty.

I don't know who ML is, or what his tagline is.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 31

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 5:32:09 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Licken, you are really being judgemental, and not in a good way. From a legal standpoint, no one is a slave, or an owner. Do ask LadyPact whether she feels that she and clip are playing a game.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 32

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 5:37:32 PM

BonesFromAsh

Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

First of all, I had no problem with Bone's funishment reply. It simply didn't answer my question.

My original reply was more a request for clarification than an answer to your question, which you failed to see.

As you're new here, this is a good opportunity for you to learn an important lesson in message board netiqette (if you're unfamilar with this term, please have a look at the FAQs thread for the Mistress forum). Conversations ebb and flow in different directions. If you take a second look at the replies you recieved, you'd see the majority of people responded to your original question as posted.

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 33

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 5:53:20 PM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

I'm not sure what all the back and forth about terms are... some folks like to play that its punishment.. and some people just like it..and for some its really punishment...

I don't do any punishment if I can avoid it, you submit or you don't in my life... so we wouldn't be a good match. That said, I'm a sadist... I love physical Sm and anything goes... that said, I don't play at it -- I do it because I enjoy it and with any luck my play partner will as well -- hence my need to be paired with a strong and sturdy masochist. The slight difference for me is, if I'm in a Ds dynamic... I'm likely to dish out what I want, not what my bottom (boy, submissive) wants and when its all going perfectly, they'll take it just because its me... and for me.. and because they love me... that is the best for me.

In reading this thread, I found that it seemed like several folks were trying to make this a lot more complicated than it is... perhaps its the 'pretense' ... I'm not good at it, I don't 'play' that way.

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 34

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 7:28:42 PM

lickenforyou

Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my question. It's very much appreciated.

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 35

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/3/2010 7:45:22 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I don't play at it -- I do it because I enjoy it and with any luck my play partner will as well

If you're doing something because you enjoy doing it, and you're doing it with a 'play partner', isn't it appropriate to describe what you're doing as 'playing'?

This thread is giving me a headache.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 36

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/4/2010 2:40:37 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Greetings

quote:

And, of course it's all fantasy and role playing. People may take it seriously but no one is an actual slave. No one is an actual master.

I think that it is here you rub allot of people the wrong way, especially since this statement is very ignorant, I do not mean to offend, but it is. There is none here that I know of that claim to be a slave in the legal sense of, being owned so someone can do whatever they want with them because they own them like they own their TV. It is however for many a very real relationship dynamic, it is not just play in the bedroom, it is how one feel.

I am of a submissive nature, I like to serve and make others happy, I like to be in a relationship where the other party have the control and make the decisions. I have used the word slave to describe myself as I once lived in a total power exhange relationship where he had all the power. However never have I believed, or claimed that it makes me a slave in the legal sense. However it is not role playing as it is the dynamic between two pepole, the very real dynamic they base their life around.

Now I am not saying that just being in it for the play is wrong, hell no if that is what you want, great. The problem is when you make sweeping statements that everyone is role playing as none can be legally a slave. First off all, the majority of submissive on this forum do not regard themselves as slaves but as submissive, they take on a submissive role in a relationship, yes they can leave, yes they are not slaves, they are not claiming to be either, they say to someone, ok you are the boss, and that is not roleplaying. That is the same as to say that a couple that for however reason, religion or otherwise live by traditional male/female roles where he is the leader of the household and she is subservient is roleplaying.

Now there are a few that do use the word slave, but that do not mean I play at being a legally owned slave, it is a way to express that one in the bound of the relationship belong to someone. What you are saying is the same as calling it roleplaying if a man in love tells his lady my heart belong to you, as well, she can not own a organ in his body.

Choosing to live ones lives by other standards than the norm do not make it roleplaying. Is BDSM roleplaying for many, yes, and there is noting, and I repeat nothing wrong with that. However for many people it is a way of life.

I wish you well.

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to lickenforyou)

Post #: 37

RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/4/2010 4:41:41 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

When he tells me to take the car over and have the brake fluid changed, that is not role play or fantasy. That is him, deciding what needs to be done and me doing it.

As far as your screen name, people have advised you that your chances of finding a real live partner to engage in play with is highly unlikely when your screen name is viewed as repellent. Now if you don't mind just doing chat room stuff with men pretending to be female, then keep at it.

FYI, your attitude is unlikely to be found attractive by most women. I assume that when someone says something, when you repeated insistently that you want real punishment and not role play, that you meant it. I assumed that you know what you want and answered accordingly. If in fact, as you now say, you never meant what you said, then my only advice is that you learn what you want and how to clearly communicate that next time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to nephandi)

Post #: 38

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Punishing a Sub

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.096