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PatrickG38 -> RE: Take Heart - The Nation Will Endure (11/2/2010 1:37:19 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
And if you are on the same path as Firm, then you realize that when you use a term such as a "significant number" it indicates that your thinking is along those lines. Yet where is the proof? I have yet to see any numbers on just how many people in The Tea Party movement are backward-thinking. Just as I have yet to see any distinctive numbers on just how many in the Democratic party are further to the left of our President.
Because there is no such study. There is nothing to back up that statement other than conjecture and drawn assumptions. Assumptions are colored by who and what we are. You are of a progressive nature, Patrick...your words prove that. So any idea that is different from yours is going to be seen as backwards or wrong...and that is also indicated by your words. That is what someone meant earlier when they posted to you the question about ever having been wrong. You state you have but I would also be willing to bet that it has not been because you looked at a liberal idea and discarded it for a more moderate or conservative way of thought on a particular matter...it was because you were not progressive enough in your thinking, to yours' or others' way of thought.
Many conservatives are like me...like Firm...like Merc...we enjoy making money and we enjoy having that money to use as we see fit. We don't mind contributing to the national defense and the general welfare...we DON'T like being told how to life our lives because the government KNOWS better and is going to take care of us despite ourselves. Like eating for example...through regulation of restaurants and food suppliers to the extent of no trans-fats, a limitation on the amount of processed sugar that can be used in certain food and drink, etc...
There are numerous polls about the Tea Party and the believes and ignorance of many (but not all) of their members, but that is rather meaningless as I am judging based on what the various Tea Party entities say or do in their public pronouncement.
As to your pronouncement that conservative like making money, that is just silly. Almost all people like making money; although, almost all would agree that if making money were your highest concern in life that would be pretty greedy (and most conservatives I know do NOT lead their lives so shallowly). I would probably agree that I am generally progressive and far to the left of the contemporary American center, but that is meaningless to the strength (or weakness) of my argument.
The issue of money as you see fit is a serious one to address and I will try although I imagine it may not be appreciated. On a surface level, no one wants to pay for something he does not support. It is no joy that my tax dollars went to a foolish war and provide massive corporate welfare to security and weapons contractors (waste that President Obama and Secretary Gates have tried to fight), but I am a citizen of the same nation as you and these decisions were made through a legitimate process (albeit one that is somewhat corrupt and needs improving) so my money should go for it as yours should go for a program you do not support. That is the essential nature of a democratic republic and is part of the compact that makes us one people. More the point, you only have money because there is a government providing value to the currency and protecting your right to retain it (this is even true of such currencies as gold, absent a market supported by government’s willingness to treat gold as type of currency, it would also be worthless for anything but looking pretty and conducting electricity). I know people do not like to think this deeply, but almost everything you do and have is made possible by government action (try owning land without legal title, moving a product without roads, canals, railroads, do you think near universal literacy was achieved through private initiative, maybe you do not like seatbelts, but many lives including those of conservatives have been saved by them, how long to you think your wealth would last if the government did not threaten the liberty of those who might take it). We are no longer a nation of autarkic farmers and never completely were. This is why libertarianism always fails and almost no one truly accepts its principles to their logical conclusion. No one want higher taxes, mature people however understand that roads, ports, museums, libraries, schools, armies, airports, clean air and water, prisons, rural electrification, etc, must be paid for and that to pay them is an honor because we should all value a first world nation, liberal, conservative and everyone in between. If I had to distill my critique of modern American conservatism to a sound bite, I might say it lacks honor and maturity in its policies. I know those are pretty lost virtues, but they are not unimportant. I want my taxes higher if it means the next generation will have better schools, but I do not want to be the only one willing. It is after all We the people, not Me the center of the world.
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