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A Revelation - 11/4/2010 3:40:32 PM   
UmbraDomina


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
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Wow................... I NEVER thought I would EVER say this, but dating a vanilla guy has changed the way I see things quite a bit.

OK, so let me start off with saying, I have not dated vanilla in years and years...... going back maybe 20+ years. After I discovered BDSM I was all about dating only kinky guys, and stuck with that idea for a large portion of my life. I mean really what on earth could a vanilla guy offer me? After all I am a big bad dominant woman, and sadist, I NEED a kinky guy in my life................. ok, maybe not so much. I have discovered it is a LOT easier to date a vanilla guy.

Let's compare...............

kinky guy dating............ he checks out my profile, writes me on fetlife or collarme, or where ever, we exchange emails over a short period of time, him telling me I am a goddess, and telling me all about his kinky desires. We met up at a munch or for coffee, or a light meal, he spends the date checking out my boots, telling me his fantasies, asking me questions about kink, parties, toys etc. We make a second date for a local play party. We attend play party, he stares at my outfit, trys to play good subbie and fetches me a drink or two, and quietly counts down until he might get some playtime with me. After all what the hell, I am a dominant woman so I MUST want to beat someones ass, and tease them till they are hot and bothered. I spend a hour or so going over things like limits, safe-words and their usage, and his health, and any safety concerns. He stumbles through my questions with a bored look on his face.We play, we talk, he walks me back to my car, he goes home writes a huge volume of a email explaining every moment of our date step by step, how he felt, how he thought he would feel, what his hopes, dreams and expectations are for our next playtime. I invite kinky guy over to my house, I greet him at the door, he looks slightly disappointed I am in jeans not leather, and that my house is decorated with Monet prints, not bondage-babes. I show him around, and offer him a drink, make a quick check of dinner, and sit down for some small talk. We eat dinner, he shovels the food down fast, because he is again counting down until playtime. I tell him he can help me clean up, he then does a half hearted attempt at cleaning up. We sit down in the living room, I am now a bit tired after all, I have cleaned my house to make a good impression, shopped for the ingredients for the meal, cooked, and of course done the girl thing and spent 2 hours getting ready. He then waits for me to make a move, and tell him to get naked and ready, and start pulling out toys. I sip my coffee, make a mental list of what toys I will be using, where they are, and what I will be doing. He waits, assuming I am just doing a mind-fuck on him, and he is already getting hot and bothered wondering what is coming next. I invite him into the bedroom, I again talk about safety, safe-words, comfort levels, he try's not to roll his eyes since he really just wants to get to the good stuff. I ask him to get naked, I pull out toys and cuffs, start to restrain him, he is looking at me with that" oh are you still going to wear that, not change into a leather thong and some 6 inch heels?" I blindfold him to do away with that. I spank him, I use the crop, and a few floggers, maybe a little CBT, starting off light since this is just the second time we have played, he enjoys himself, I get a bit warmed up(after all I am a sadist) I allow him to jerk off, I send him into the bathroom to clean himself up, I decide I am going to masturbate, because well hell I am a little hot and bothered, but it's a bit early in our friendship for me to have a sexual encounter with him. He comes out of the bathroom, sees me with eyes closed, smile on face, with mr.happy (my vibrator), he stands there not knowing what to do, shifting from foot to foot, until I am done. I clean up, get re-dressed, start to pick up toys and clean up, he gets dressed, says thank you mistress I had a great time, can't wait for next time, maybe next time you can rape my ass while I am gagged with your dirty panties. He leaves, I spend a good hour, cleaning toys, straighting up the house, and so on.

Vanilla guy dating........................... Your out and about one day, maybe at the auto-parts store pricing some new headlights, when you hear someone say, those are really good ones I have them in my truck, so you turn to see who's speaking, there stands a handsome smiling stranger, you smile back and make a little small talk, he introduces himself, you do the same, small talk and flirting on both sides, he asks you if you might be interested in dinner sometime, you say yes, you exchange numbers and go on your merry way. He then calls you up, you chat, laugh, talk about common interests, He asks you to dinner Friday night, you say yes. The next few days, you exchange texts, maybe a phone call.
Date night rolls around, you show up at the appointed restaurant, he is waiting there for you, greets you with a big smile and a hug, offers you his arm, and escorts you to the table. You make small talk, you flirt, you laugh, enjoy dinner, he tells you how he was nervous about speaking to you in the auto parts store but he is certainly glad he did. He walks you to your car, gives you a hug, while in his arms your eyes meet, and he goes in for the kiss, you melt a little then say good night, he asks you to call him when you get home just to make sure you arrive home safe. You go home, give him a call, exchange "wow what a great evening's" with each other, he says I would really like to see you again, you say great me too. You then mention you were planning on going hiking the next day with the puppy and invite him along, he says yes, you hang up, and relax for the evening. You show up the next day at the park, he is there waiting, you greet him with a hug, and a quick kiss, and introduce him to your dog, at which time he says" I hope you don't mind I brought him a cookie" and pulls a doggie cookie out of his pocket, you melt a little. Off into the woods you go, chatting and getting to know each other, sharing a bottle of water. After a couple hours in the woods, you emerge, he suggests getting a bite to eat, and invites you and the dog to go to a local hot-dog stand drive in. You eat, you laugh, you fend off the dog who wants the hot dog way more then you do. He drives you back to your car, exchange a hug and a kiss and go home. He calls you later tells you he had a great time, you say the same, he asks would you be interested in dinner and a movie tomorrow night at my place? You say sure. Next day you show up at his house, you notice it's pretty darn clean for a guy's place, you offer him the bottle of wine you have brought, he says oh nice, can I pour you a glass? He mentions how nice you look in your jeans, and tee shirt. You enjoy a glass of wine together making small talk, a knock at the door it's Chinese delivery ( he had already warned you he did not cook very well).
Both of you camp out in front of the TV (since he is a guy he has a massive flat screen TV with all the toys that go with it) Drink wine, eat Chinese food, watch a movie, a little cuddling, and smooching. You thank him for dinner and tell him, I have to get home, have to let the puppy out, he tells you he wishes you could stay and maybe next time you could bring the puppy along.

The biggest difference here is with the kinky guy, I have to work my butt off, I have to make all the decisions, and his main goal is to get played with, and he seems to suffer through the "dating" to get to it. Now don't get me wrong I know that the vanilla guy wants sex, but he also made the effort, took the time to impress ME, he actually wanted me to have a good time, and wanted me to be happy, not just himself.


I have not just dated one or two kinkyguys, but many, many over the years, no the dating was not step by step exactly as I wrote it, but damn close on many occasions. I called it my third date relationship, as most of the time it never got past the third date.

I enjoy the company of a bright, well rounded man, who doesn't just think about his kink, and who can think for himself. If I have to plan out what I want a man to do, cleaning cooking what ever, I might as well do it myself. I think that was what was one of the things that was so refreshing about vanilla guy, he actually took the reins, not in a "dominant, you will do as I say" kind of way, but in a hey let me do all the planning, and work you just relax and enjoy type of thing.

Oh yes, a big P.S to the end.......... Vanilla guy and I have now been dating for several months, he is fully aware of my kinky side, and accepts it. He has even ventured to a munch with me, and plans on attending a play party with me when we both have a saturday off together. We have a "kinda" D/s type of relationship, where I am the leader in our relationship. He has no desire for the S&M side of kink, but is perfectly ok with me playing with others to get my sadistic fix. He still impresses me, and try's to make my life easier and better, he still likes my dog, and yes, he did install those new headlights in my jeep. :)



_____________________________

Alexandra ~

~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~
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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 3:47:44 PM   
hlen5


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I'm glad you have a fella you are happy with!

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:03:45 PM   
comingbacktolife


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That is a GREAT post. Being a vanilla guy, that is exactly how the dates usually go!

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:06:12 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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Thank you for sharing the update in your personal life.  I'd like to wish you good luck with 'vanilla guy'.

My husband was a vanilla guy when we met and got to the point at one time where he was willing to be the 'vanilla guy' who tagged along at munches, watched Me play with others, and took Me to events.  Some people tried to tell Me that I was "compartmentalizing" My life and that they didn't understand how I could not be getting what I wanted.  What they didn't get was, I was getting what I wanted.  Not only that, I was getting the best of both worlds.  (Not to mention, our sex at home after those play parties was freaking awesome.)  Even though he ended up getting a taste for topping others, that works, too.  Now he doesn't have to be bored (sometimes) until I'm finished. 

Again, just wanted to wish you luck.  I really hope it works out for you.


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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:19:45 PM   
AAkasha


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Joined: 11/27/2004
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I'm a strong supporter of "Date vanilla then convert" when femdoms ask me what to do about their frustrations of dating submissive men.  I also try to remind submissive men that they aren't just competing with other subs, they are often competing with vanilla guys - and vanilla guys generally win the "best first date" contest hands down, because the kink pressure, hints, blah blah is all off the table and there's nothing left to explore than good old fashioned chemistry.

Of course, there are longterm pitfalls to dating vanilla, and often you can't see them til it's too late.  I dated a LOT of vanilla guys when I was single, and most were longterm.  Most were successful "converts" to the kinky side (what vanilla guy doesn't want to indulge a kinky woman, after all? It's a given he's already attracted to a fairly assertive woman in the first place) -- but what I found was a little bit of a stickler later on is that while a "kink curious" or "vanilla" guy could be pretty accommodating sexually and kink-wise, they still, at the end of the day, don't "get" or "understand" what a kinky person feels, needs, wants, desires.  They can't quite understand how a kinky urge can feel like a compulsion almost, and not just 'something fun to do.'  They don't quite get that I don't do S&m just because I am bored and I could live without it; I do S&M because it's part of who I am. I can't just 'give it up.'  A kinky guy will always, always get it.  I had some vanilla guys decide after - well after falling pretty hard into a long term, great relationship - that kink wasn't going to be on the menu for them *forever*.  Fortunately in those cases we were able to work out an open relationship in those cases, but I can imagine that it would be devastating to find out too late that the kink is going to be a dealbreaker.

When I used to make it well known that I dated vanilla (and converted) often, I got a lot of nasty emails from sub guys claiming I was 'wasting' my femdom side on vanilla guys.  Go figure.

Akasha


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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:27:42 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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I definitely don't do vanilla guys. I also don't do rude, demanding "submissive" guys who treat me like a drive-through McDomme's.  I get the best of both worlds by being very selective when it comes to only dating kinky guys who are just that cool.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:30:18 PM   
sexyred1


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Vanilla guy sounds fab. Does he have a brother?

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:37:13 PM   
YSG


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First off, Umbra, Im glad you found something thats working for you

Personally, when I date kinky, I keep it vanilla at first. My reason for this is simple: I want to know you as a person first. If I dont like you as a person, I know I'm not going to like you as a dominant.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 4:55:21 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

I definitely don't do vanilla guys. I also don't do rude, demanding "submissive" guys who treat me like a drive-through McDomme's.  I get the best of both worlds by being very selective when it comes to only dating kinky guys who are just that cool.


OMG I laughed almost till I pee'ed! Great expression!

And to Umbra, sounds great! Much harder to achieve when You're already with one kinky guy (Master) and looking for a subby to complete the triad though. Besides, I've only seen snotty teenagers in auto parts stores around here LOL!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 5:01:50 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG
Personally, when I date kinky, I keep it vanilla at first. My reason for this is simple: I want to know you as a person first. If I dont like you as a person, I know I'm not going to like you as a dominant.


This, +1.  I find guys in the kinky community who are also geeky and into gaming and have other vanilla interests in common with me, spend time making friends (as in, really friends, no kink, no dating, just gaming buddies).  If the chemistry works and we build a solid foundation of friendship and common interests to the point that we really enjoy each other's company whether play ever happens or not, that's when play can happen.   It's worked fantastically for me. 


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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 5:47:50 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
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Umbra... its great that you're happy.. me I'll never date vanilla again... and I was talking to the darling boi about this just now and said "why not get it all in one package like I do?" and she said.. its very hard to find, we're lucky and you don't always get what you want...

she's right.. but I'm with YSG there... if I can't enjoy you over a cup of coffee, I won't enjoy you tied up...

and me, I won't put up with something that is "work" ...

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RE: A Revelation - 11/4/2010 7:27:06 PM   
liketobeBlues


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Congrats, both on the revelation and the great guy!
 
~ Blue ~

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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 1:36:06 AM   
BlackTigerDragon


Posts: 180
Joined: 4/1/2010
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Vanilla guy sounds more fun than the kinky guy!

I've never dated, but my plan is to date vanilla first. This post confirms the reasons for my plan

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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 4:49:18 AM   
MrKicia


Posts: 155
Joined: 9/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG

First off, Umbra, Im glad you found something thats working for you

Personally, when I date kinky, I keep it vanilla at first. My reason for this is simple: I want to know you as a person first. If I dont like you as a person, I know I'm not going to like you as a dominant.


If i was dating, i agree with this.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 10:00:10 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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Its good you have found what you wanted but your description of dating sub guys kind of baffled me. You have been doing this for 20 years and never had much more than a three date relationship? What on earth made you continue for that long?



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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 10:27:05 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Umbra's thread is a bit misleading... her most recent relationship lasted ten years. She has had long term relationships besides that one. She was using EXAMPLES from many dates.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 6:13:58 PM   
blackpearl81


Posts: 506
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Home of the Yankees
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG
Personally, when I date kinky, I keep it vanilla at first. My reason for this is simple: I want to know you as a person first. If I dont like you as a person, I know I'm not going to like you as a dominant.


This, +1.  I find guys in the kinky community who are also geeky and into gaming and have other vanilla interests in common with me, spend time making friends (as in, really friends, no kink, no dating, just gaming buddies).  If the chemistry works and we build a solid foundation of friendship and common interests to the point that we really enjoy each other's company whether play ever happens or not, that's when play can happen.   It's worked fantastically for me. 




What type of games are you into?

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Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 6:44:55 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81
What type of games are you into?


Tabletop RPG's pretty much exclusively, though I also play Guild Wars and Dungeons and Dragons Online. 


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Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/5/2010 7:26:30 PM   
blackpearl81


Posts: 506
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Home of the Yankees
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81
What type of games are you into?


Tabletop RPG's pretty much exclusively, though I also play Guild Wars and Dungeons and Dragons Online. 




Ahh - never tried a tabletop RPG. (Although, I do like RPGs)

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~ Karma. Being a motherfucker since 1981 ~

Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.

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RE: A Revelation - 11/6/2010 5:54:34 PM   
blmtrsne


Posts: 201
Joined: 6/29/2004
Status: offline
My husband/slave discovered his sub-being by browsing the early internet: he recognized his kink. And then he introduced it to me. Turned out I was already taking a lot of decisions, loved being treated as a lady... When we grew in it, it exagerated into a 24/7 slave/Mistress relation, where he does his best to please me. It was easy to grow: recognizing his kink made me liberated of a few scrupules in our relationship so that I gave the order to do something I would never have discussed in a vanilla setting.



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