BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (Full Version)

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Whipenrod -> BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/29/2004 6:20:58 PM)

Conversation I had recently with someone who's been in the lifestyle a long time:

'BDSM marriages don't work...they loose their momentum."

What? You mean things get too 'familiar'?

"Yes."

"No surprise?"

"Yes"

"People who are married are too close to share the adventure of a BDSM relationship--it doesn't last. Is that it?"

"Yep--they turn 'vanilla.'"

Any opinions about this? We didn't discuss long-term master/slave relationships--is THAT a 'marriage' of sorts?
What about Dom/Dom marriages? or sub/sub marriages?

--Lady Whipenrod



EStrict -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/29/2004 6:39:02 PM)

I have been married to my for 4 years. He learns (according to him) new things about me all the time. ::laughing:: and it's not even that *I* change, it's more that since my concern is always making his life easier and more pleasant, it takes a lot more time for me to *admit* something I may want...

Honestly, marriage is a legal issue IMO. The only *real* thing being married changes in my mind is it makes people work harder on a relationship. It's not as easy to take the easy out of breaking up when there are legal and family obligations to also deal with. Other than that, it is no different than any LT relationship.. they all get *old* and stagnant if you allow them too...

My bet is the person you talked to knows little about commitment and doesn't realize that even THEY have to work on things if they want them to stay fresh.



sub4hire -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/29/2004 6:52:28 PM)

I have to agree with Sandy on this. Then of course I've always agree'd with her.
I'm not married to my Dom yet. However we do plan on it. Been together 6 years now. Does it go stale? Nope, never does. The reason why it doesn't is because we don't allow it to.
Any relationship goes stale. Of those of you who have had vanilla relationships, none have ever went stale?

So, yes it can if you allow it to. Just like any other relationship you've ever had. The lifestyle is not all that different. You can always incorporate new things in.



proudsub -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/29/2004 7:37:32 PM)

Been married to my Dom 36 years, but only an official D/s relationship for the last 18 mo. Things only get better for us.



Suleiman -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/29/2004 10:29:34 PM)

Okay, once again I have an outsider's persective. I have never really experienced a vanilla relationship, so I've never understood why some people use that term like it was an insult or a death sentence. That caveat first being applied, I have to ask:

Have you ever REALLY looked at the dynamic in a vanilla relationship? IMHO, Ward and June Cleaver (as a generic example of the classic post-war nuclear family model) are Dom and sub. June Cleaver is in my opinion a superior submissive, very close to what some people in the community call a "Slave Heart". Yet, their model is looked upon with derision by the leather community. Why is that?

Admittedly, the modern egalitarian vanilla relationship, with both partners working and asserting their own personalities, does not immediately synchronise with the BDSM template, but really that just means that they're essentially "switchy" (forgive the linguistic mangling if you please).

Once you have established a BDSM dynamic, how is turning "Vanilla" going to change that dynamic? At worst, you suffer the inevitable bane of marraige - less sex. So what? Does that mean you're no longer leather people? Does that mean that you are no longer the pervert you are?

Like the man said - it is not that the eater of snails is moral, and the eater of clams is immoral. It is simply a question of appetites. Not playing bondage games does not make you less of a pervert - it simply means that you are a pervert who is not getting laid.



bottominwa -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/29/2004 10:44:20 PM)

This girl can onyl speak from personal experience here, but she has been married to and belonged ot this house for 9 years, the last 5 and a half in a full time 24/7 TPE. The first 3 she was allowed to work but it was from the beginning a non-equality based relationship.
she often refers to herself as June Cleaver in leather...lol. she thinks that marriages vanilla or BDSM always have the possibility of stagnation. Commonality makes people grow lazy, and especially in a marriage often the switching gears form menial fmailial life to D/s can mug up the cogs in a BDSM marriage.

sabrina King

kajiira

House of King



darkinshadows -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 4:10:29 AM)

Marriages can become stale. If the couple allows it.

BDSM relationships can become stale. If the couple allow it.

D/s relationships can become stale. If the couple allow it.

S/m relationships can become stale. If the couple allow it.

Poly Relationships can become stale. If the People allow it.

Hmmmm... is there a common pattern here?
Relationships of any sort... IMO... are down to the individuals involved. It isnt the relationship... its the people.

I am married, 15 yrs, and couldnt be more content...



infyniti -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 5:15:27 AM)

From my own personal experience only. I feel that being married only solidified our bond. It took a good relationship and made it a magical one. If you ask me if that there are days that we are both tired, or maybe just " best friends"...sure. As creatures we don't eat all the time, we don't sleep all the time, hence we don't play all the time. There is a balance and it is a good balance. There is a bond that we didn't have prior to marrying. There is a feeling of " forever" with us. It is a good feeling. And no, i have never once felt that i have taken the gift that i have received nor the gift that i give for granted. The Bruce will always come first in my life. And honestly i believe i in His. We have a D/s relationship with lots of kink [;)] He knows that i do not have the desire or ability to be a slave person and that has never crossed into our relationship. We didn't go into marriage blindly.....maybe since we were both married before we thought things through alot more than some.
IMO.....being married in a D/s relationship has never lost it's luster....going on 3 years of being married. [:D]
infyniti



topcat -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 6:01:38 AM)

Milady Whipenrod-

what I have seen of those that have been married/bonded/handfasted/whatever for more than a few years is that they tend to drop out of the scene, while (as far as I can see) still maintianing their dynamic.

Good friends of mine, locally, have been married for ?? damn -I think I just missed their tenth anniversery! , and still have a strong, visible to the knowing, 24/7 dynamic, though I haven't seen them out in the scene for about five years.

I have seen this in other instances, and think that it is why many seem to think that BDSM relationships don't last. I think they do, they just become less visible.

Stay warm,
Lawrence



Laura -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 7:23:25 AM)

I think most couples who stay together awhile tend to get busy with kids, business/ career, being married, etc and there is just less time for showing up at BDSM events. Why go out for something they can have at home?

Any relationship can become stagnant. I was married and the end of it had nothing to do with BDSM. The original theory (at the top of this discussion) is like the blind men feeling the elephant, none of them can see enough to know what it really is, they just make assumptions based on what part of the elephant they can touch.



realophelia -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 9:16:05 AM)

quote:

Any opinions about this? We didn't discuss long-term master/slave relationships--is THAT a 'marriage' of sorts?
What about Dom/Dom marriages? or sub/sub marriages?


My Master is married Dom/Domme. They have been married over 10 years and seem to have a very good relationship.

Take care :)
Ophelia



LadySonelle -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 3:35:41 PM)

Horseradish! :) My beautiful slave k and I have been together for 20 years (we celebrate O/our anniversary in Las Vegas in December!)

To be sure, the sex is less frequent. We're both older. But we still do fantasy and D/s together and I'm up for another 20 if she is! :)

Lady Sonelle



dixiedumpling -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 6:59:16 PM)

And vanilla marriages don't get stale? PUH-LEASE!

I think marriage is marriage. What makes one better or worse depends on who is involved in it. People divorce, remarry, and it's the same. Why? Because they are the same. People grow apart and marriages get stale because we allow them to. If we don't get complacent and 'comfortable' with our routines and lives then they stay fresh and exciting. It's us. It's not the institution of marriage.



WayHome -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (9/30/2004 8:42:56 PM)

We've been together for most of 14 years and we've experienced difficult, "on the rocks", and even painful, but never stale.


Leto



Whipenrod -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (10/1/2004 4:36:38 AM)

Thanks for all the input..I see the perspective people have on this topic.
Yes--relationships do need work. The idea was, in a day-to-day, BDSM is left behind. "Married folks don't play much after a while."

I also have to bring up the term 'serial monogamy'--separation/divorce and remarriage after things go awry. Is this what happens when slaves are released or a sub finds a new Dom/Domme as well?

I must state my own perspective: just divorced (from a marriage I should have left a while ago). Monogamy and marriage are not on my mind at the moment.

I'm not marriage-bashing, but trying to see if it has a significant place in BDSM--or is this mostly fun and games for singles and parttime/temporary commitments?

Thank you for your responses!



Suleiman -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (10/1/2004 12:14:35 PM)

"Serial Monogamy" is a pointless term, since humans are not wolves. We honestly don't mate for life. Therefore, the same caveats apply to sequential marriage as it does to solitary marriage as it applies to polygamous marriage as it applies to "mere" cohabitation. The advice is the same. If you get into a long-term relationship, you are going to have relationship issues. If you are unwiling to face those issues, then don't get into a committed relationship. This same rule applies to masters and slaves as much as it applies to anyone else.

Is BDSM something that you do? If so, then it has a significant place in any relationship you are involved in. Is BDSM simply a party game that you some times indulge in when you're getting laid? Then it probably will not impact your marriage. For the Gods' sake, man, if BDSM is a major part of your life, don't marry someone who isn't into that sort of thing. It will just lead to straying, cheating, lying, hurting, recriminations, and another ugly ugly divorce.

Some folks, of course, don't discover their inclinations until they have been married for a while, and then much to their chagrin they find that their partners are less than enthusiastic. This is, however, a subject of several other threads, and does not directly apply to your own case. You are already aware of your inclinations, and must take them into account when deciding on whether to become involved in the long term with your lover.

As the ancients reprimanded us on many occasions - "This, above all things: To thyne own self be true"



Estring -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (10/1/2004 6:02:49 PM)

I think that generally that no matter your lifestyle, being in a commited relationship is work. I would imagine that initially in many BDSM relationships, the fantasy and play are emphasized, and learning whether you actually share common goals and values minimized. This might cause more breakups than vanilla relationships, but I can't be certain. Of course in many vanilla relationships, the sex is emphasized before they even know if they like each other.



newflowers -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (10/1/2004 10:55:26 PM)

quote:

I'm not marriage-bashing, but trying to see if it has a significant place in BDSM--or is this mostly fun and games for singles and parttime/temporary commitments?


Whether marriage or simple committment between two or more people, marriage, handfasting, cohabitation, or any other choice would be largely dependent upon what individuals seek. It seems to me that while there are a fair number of people who wish only to play, there is also a significant number who do not see BDSM as only a game that is played for part-time sexual/kink fulfillment.


quote:

since humans are not wolves. We honestly don't mate for life.


Though I am not well-versed in the science between species that mate for life and those that does not, I do think that the longevity of any committment is solely dependent upon those involved. There are some people who do "mate for life." While I think the numbers are not as large as those who move from relationship to relationship, it does happen. Perhaps it is more dependent upon socio-economic issues than biology.

quote:

I'm up for another 20 if she is! :)


This statement has given me the biggest smile of my day. Congratulations and happy anniversary. May your next 20 be as wonderous as the first.

newflowers



Thanatosian -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (10/2/2004 8:20:53 AM)

quote:

Of course in many vanilla relationships, the sex is emphasized before they even know if they like each other.


I was just rereading J.A. Jance Birds of Prey, and in it she has one of her characters point out something along the lines of couples nowadays coming back early from the honeymoon because they were 'bored' and she attributes this to the fact that they dont wait til after the wedding to have sex, whereas on her honeymoon (40 some odd years ago) she and the groom were so busy exploring each others bodies that they never did get around to go sightseeing.

dunno how appropriate this is to the topic at hand (about which I cannot really comment, having never been married), but it somehow struck a chord with my more romantic side

just my tuppence



anthrosub -> RE: BDSM + Marriage = 0 ? (10/2/2004 9:46:13 AM)

i think we all are reacting to our own experiences as we age and how a relationship unfolds (or progresses) is no different. Consider what Lady Whipenrod has said about her own situation...just divorced and now not currently interested in monogamous relationships. It could have been the opposite (i.e., "...tired of the variety and looking for someone to focus on..."). It's all relative really.

Relationships of any form are a journey. People who meet in the scene and then disappear or become less visible have not surprisingly, moved down the path so to speak. Nothing is going to remain fixed...not even our expectations.

Relationships have never been something one can put on "autopilot" and expect to work out the way one wants it to. Just like a plane...input is required if you want to do a sky dance. Otherwise, it's going to be a boring straight and level flight. The neat thing about a relationship is there's two pilots involved, even in this lifestyle.

my two cents,
anthrosub



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