Oklahoma BDSM Case (Full Version)

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Malkinius -> Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 4:56:40 AM)

Greetings all....

I was just given this link about a case in Oklahoma involving BDSM and thought I would pass it on here.

http://newsok.com/beating-case-reveals-fetish/article/3511030#ixzz14Ne7jj61

It is definitely something to be aware of in those things some people do.

Be well all....

Malkinius



AquaticSub -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 5:04:50 AM)

Who is charging him if she is now defending him?



BonesFromAsh -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 5:12:28 AM)

There's an interesting thread concerning this case on fetlife in the BDSM and the Law group.

Here's another article concerning the case... http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13447173

quote:


Prosecutors said in March they pressed charges because the violence went beyond consent and that you cannot have a contract to commit a violent act against a person. Prosecutors said this is a case of domestic abuse.




Malkinius -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 5:13:01 AM)

Greetings all.....

Just a bit of an update I just found about the case.

http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13447173

In domestic abuse cases the state can prosecute even when the victim recants and does not want the case to go to trial. Once a charge is made everything is up to the DA, the victim no longer has a say in it due to too many cases where a victim was forced by the abuser to recant. Once you involve the police it is out of your hands forever.

Be well....

Malkinius



LadyPact -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 5:29:33 AM)

Malkinius,

Thanks for posting the article.  This is what can happen if police are specifically brought into the situation.  Her testimony on the consensual S/m, D/s, or M/s part of their life may or may not help now that he's actually been charged.  Definitely something for folks to think about and another good reminder to be aware of what the law says in your state.



crazyml -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 5:37:25 AM)



The argument that the prosecution seems to be making is that on a specific occasion she was beatern w/o consent.

quote:


Prosecutors allege that he handcuffed, choked and beat Larsen early Feb. 17. Prosecutors say he was angry because she wanted to end their relationship after catching him having sex with another woman in a nightclub's parking lot. Prosecutors allege he acted illegally because she did not consent that time to being handcuffed and beaten.

Read more: http://newsok.com/beating-case-reveals-fetish/article/3511030#ixzz14hJiyG7n


So, I'm not sure how much bearing this would have on a stable, consenting BDSM relationship?



DomImus -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 6:05:48 AM)

I've often said that the most important thing a submissive brings to a relationship is a willingness not to prosecute. Although the prosecutors in this case are going to milk the bdsm angle for all it is worth bdsm in this story is little more than a footnote. It does sound like he cuffed and beat her just like the article says and that she eventually recanted not because she lied but because she changed her mind and decided she wants him back. It's still a sobering story that plays up how important it is to know the person you are involved with as well as you possibly can. Even then you are still rolling the dice to an extent.

Why is she not up on charges of giving false statements to the police? She openly admitted that she lied.




Ait -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 6:34:09 AM)

I'm *fairly* sure that Consent doesn't factor in in "Domestic abuse" or anything resembling it in Oklahoma. Or at least that's what I've been told and it's something we keep in mind.



ResidentSadist -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 8:50:16 AM)

. . . That's what you get for fucking people you pick up on Fetlife. LMAO



Hotch -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 9:07:32 AM)

All bringing up the BDSM element of their relationship is going to do in this case, is give BDSM a (non consensual) black eye.

Once charges were filed, the case needed to be tried on it's own merits. Bringing up BDSM isn't going to make it go away, it's only going to give the prosecutor ammunition to build a case for habitual spousal abuse (He exploited her interest in rough sex to control her and cloud her ability to distinguish between consensual and non consensual behavior.)

Stupid, stupid people.



crazyml -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 9:15:25 AM)

Do we know why she retracted her statement? She clearly split up with her partner for a period of time, so must have been unhappy about something.

Perhaps the authorities believe that she has retracted her statement out of fear? Or a (sad) desire to reconcile with her abusive partner?

I have no clue if this is the case, but it has to be a possibility, surely?



thatsub -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 10:23:37 AM)

I read that article and I could not understand how she could talk about trust, when didn't think twice about starting this chain of events. 



angelikaJ -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 12:16:02 PM)

Mistrial: no show jury member drunk



thatsub -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 12:32:10 PM)

I still shocked how government still tries to push the case w/o a witness. Just few days ago I was watching a TV show similar to "Cops", and there was a this man who, instead of continuing a fight, when he got attacked by his neighbor he called police. Both people appeared to be sober. Police told the guy, who called them, that even though they can see a mark on his face from a punch, there is nothing they can do, since there were no witnesses!!! Police kept telling the guy to forget it and go away before they put *him* in jail.



LadyPact -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/8/2010 1:21:42 PM)

It's not so much the idea of government 'pushing' a case without a witness.  Many of these laws are on the books specifically because a domestic partner has a greater ability to coerce, intimidate, or apologize their way to getting charges dropped.  This is what allowed the cycle to be repeated in so many legitimate cases of domestic abuse.  



submissivemale22 -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/9/2010 11:46:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It's not so much the idea of government 'pushing' a case without a witness.  Many of these laws are on the books specifically because a domestic partner has a greater ability to coerce, intimidate, or apologize their way to getting charges dropped.  This is what allowed the cycle to be repeated in so many legitimate cases of domestic abuse.  


indeed. the title of this thread indicates that the consensual acts are what are being prosecuted, and that is not the case.

DV cases are commonly pursued even after the accuser declines to testify or changes her story, if the facts give rise to an inference of wrong doing. there is an incredible amount of pressure placed on these women (both physical and threatening), and for that reason there are specific hearsay exceptions which will allow their prior statements to law enforcement to be used in court.



submaleokc -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/11/2010 12:04:54 PM)

I saw the article in the paper here the other day.. I haven't had a chance to read up on it at all though.. Going to try and do that today.



rulemylife -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/11/2010 12:17:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Who is charging him if she is now defending him?


It's something I have said many times on these boards and had a lot of people telling me I was wrong.

The prosecutor can bring charges on his own regardless of whether the alleged victim cooperates.



rulemylife -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/11/2010 12:24:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

The argument that the prosecution seems to be making is that on a specific occasion she was beatern w/o consent.



There is no such thing as a consensual beating in legal terms.

As much as we believe in that concept in BDSM circles, it does not exist legally.



TheHungryTiger -> RE: Oklahoma BDSM Case (11/14/2010 1:59:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
There is no such thing as a consensual beating in legal terms.

As much as we believe in that concept in BDSM circles, it does not exist legally.


Even when not specifically referenced, lack of consent is an element of assault under common law. See Volenti non fit injuria

But even if you ignore that principal, there are 13 states that have consent explicitly and directly written into their assault laws. Alabama ALA. CODE § 13A-2-7 Colorado COLO. REV. STAT. § 18-1-505 Delaware DEL. CODE ANN. tit. 11, §§ 451–453 Hawaii HAW. REV. STAT. §§ 702-233 to -235 Maine ME. REV. STAT. ANN. tit. 17-A, § 109 Missouri MO. ANN. STAT. § 565.080 Montana MONT. CODE ANN. § 45-2-211 New Hampshire N.H. REV. STAT. ANN. § 626:6 New Jersey N.J. STAT. ANN. § 2C:2-10 North Dakota N.D. CENT. CODE § 12.1-17-08 Pennsylvania 18 PA. CONS. STAT. ANN. § 311 Tennessee TENN. CODE ANN. § 39-13-104 and Texas TEX. PENAL CODE ANN. § 22.06

And on top of all that, there have been multiple different court cases where someone engaging in BDSM facing legal charges has not only use consent as a defence, but has used it successful. The latest being Christopher E. Miner.

This is not to say that consent is ALWAYS a defence. The kinky sex going on between Robert Frederick Glass and Sharon Lopatka still landed him in one hell of a legal mess even though everythign was consentual. But the bumper-sticker sized talking point that "There is no such thing as a consensual beating in legal terms" is grosly oversimplifed at best and a flat out lie at worst.



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