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Jaybeee -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/25/2010 4:56:03 AM)
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ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
Well, I hit him with Pascal's Wager, which in and of itself should convince ANY irreligious person that there is no incentive to disbelieve.
Other than not wishing to kow-tow to a myth for no other reason than fear of death, you mean.
I don't fear death. I certainly don't seek it, but I see it as an inevitability, and nothing to be feared for its own sake.
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
He damn well knew what it was, and STILL chose to defy it; but I got the feeling he loved the fucking KICK that you get from rebellion, the sound of breaking glass and all. I only hope He knew that too and forgave him...
If there is a god, and it viewed harmless rebellion as anything other than harmless, then I'd suggest the god in question was a very nasty piece of work.
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
We Christians (as you probably know) differ in our beliefs on who avoids Hell. I feel those who believe and/or have lived a Christ-like like avoid damnation. Others have more lenient beliefs, yet other Christians think I myself am more like than not to burn. Depends on your interpretation, and I am applying the most logical.
Applying logic to worship is a bit of an odd concept, but ok.
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
As for why I believe, yeah, I'll go there. I have FELT His touch in my heart. Started off with me wondering why almost the whole world either blindly follows their parent's faith or rebels against it, and so few pick THEIR OWN faith. I moved on from there to wondering whether He existed, concluded that any God worth me following would be a benevolent one who looks after those who most closely love Him, and BOOM. There lies the "intangible", inexplicable part. And yes, I can no more describe to you what it felt like to have something move about my upper thorax after each, each of three intense sessions thought of the Origins of this Universe, concluding that something can't come from nothing and that by definition all matter had to have a beginning, than I can about how every member of the military I've ever met (bar one) weirded me out.
To anyone of even halfway rational thought, that explanation sounds like a combination of self-delusion and heartburn. And you're aware of some of the more complex ways one's own mind can deceive one?
But, as always with me, it's harmless. So I'm not anti-it. I just find it rather odd, that's all.
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
Are you now convinced, finally? NO, of course not. You didn't feel what I felt, you're reading words on a screen, and despite my vaunted descriptiveness, I can no more convey to you the BOOM! of what I felt as a human being on that fine summer's day than I can describe to a man who has always been deaf what Mozart or Mos Def sound like.
Well maybe someday I'll feel it too, who can say.
In the meantime I remain unconvinced.
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
The only option that makes sense to anyone interested in self-preservation, yes.
Someone prepared to bow to fear of the unknown. I don't bow, because I don't have any fear of that. Fear of other things yes, but not that.
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ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
But I have long ago concluded that even the smart amongs us make dumb choices, and there comes a point when you sadly, but firmly, MUST give up trying to convince him.
Well I do (honestly!) appreciate you taking the time and trouble to type an explanation, but I haven't heard anything empirical in the way of information, so I'll just toddle along in my agnostic little way, doing as little harm as possible to my fellow man, and helping out where I can. If by any chance there is a god, and living a decent life while non-believing isn't enough to warrant acceptance, then that would make said god a cunt, and I don't associate with those.
I would imagine - from what I gather of you - that you're likely to be given a chance in the moments just before/after death, at which point He would present Himself and ask, "NOW do you believe I exist?". Not all Christians would agree with me, some would so you'll go straight down the chute, others would say it's impossible to tell. I think all intrinsically GOOD people get a chance, and are asked if they believe the evidence (then) presented. I firmly believe the guy I was talking about before - who had read ALL the arguments but still flat out said, "There is NO doubt in my mind that your God doesn't exist" pretty well went down the chute. Unlike you, who acknowledges the possibility He may exist but simply thinks it unlikely.
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More likely, logically, is that any being superior enough to create the myriad wonders of evolutionary life wouldn't have so fragile an ego as to require worship.
That's quite illogical actually, and I'll explain why. You are a hugely more complex form of life than a termite, yet you exhibit (I'll refrain from saying, "exude"!!) emotion, sensitivity etc. If you don't mind me making a personal observation, I daresay you could probably benefit greatly from a damn good hug from a member of the opposite sex, but I digress. The more complex the life form, the more complex it's needs for love. God wants to be loved - put yourself in His shoes, if YOU had created the universe, then by definition before you had done so, there would have been nobody to love you, just a vacuum. And hey presto, you click your fingers, and for ten easy payments of nothingness, you get millions life forms that love you (plus a few who don't). In His position, wouldn't you have done the same?
I think good, scientific doubt is perfectly understandable, but outside of that, I don't see any incentive, logical or emotive, to openly actively rebel against one's Creator.
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Or we're dealing with elder gods like Cthulhu, in which case we're both fucked [;)]
I have Nul Points idea who that might be.
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