RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 1:56:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
It's pretty easy - Conehats and Aconehats die.

If Aconehat was right and the Conehat was wrong, both end up as dust, and the Conehat has paid no price for being wrong (believing the Big Bang was a unicorn orgy and wearing a cone upon his head in order to worship the pointy creators)

BUT...

If Conehat was right and the Aconehat was wrong, the chances are the Aconehat goes to the Pointy Pointy Bad Place, the Conehat goes to Unicorn Fun Land (it's AWE-SOME I mean they even fart rainbows!).

That's about it...cut it any way you like, committing to Aconehatism is a much higher risk, for no greater reward.

Jaybeee, I've been eagerly waiting to find out, are you wearing a cone?




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 3:31:41 PM)

quote:

You cannot, in normal everyday English be "religious" without also being a theist. Theism is the defining feature of religion.


This is a false statement. Buddhism is a religion. It is NOT theistic. Illuminance Fellowship is a religion. It is not theistic. There are also sects of the Quakers, Jainists, and Hindus that are non-theistic. In addition, the Secular Humanists also are a religion that is actively -Atheistic-, rather than just non-theistic.

It is possible to be "religious", meaning that one follows a particular set of tenets that one considers one's "religion" and not be a theist, a deist, or anything else having to do with a god or gods. I know. I'm an Illuminist (Illuminance Fellowship).

Oh, and all of these are in "normal everyday English".

Calla




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 3:41:21 PM)

quote:

That's about it...cut it any way you like, committing to Aconehatism is a much higher risk, for no greater reward.


I have to comment on this. I wasn't going to, but I guess getting tattooed didn't satisfy my fetish for masochism this week.

1. if this is the ONLY reason that someone is choosing a belief structure, that individual is not a "believer", xhe is an OPPORTUNIST trying to pass hirself OFF as a believer... My reasoning? If the only reason someone is doing something is to assure either their own safety or in order to get something they want, that behavior is called "manipulation", and should, in no way, be confused with actual -participation- in that belief structure.

2. I disagree with the foundation premise of the statement " committing to Aconehatism is a much higher risk, for no greater reward" on personal principle. I believe that the worst possible outcome is the loss of my self-respect and self-honesty. If an individual does not truly believe/have faith with NO expectation of reward for that belief, then that individual has sold out hir SELF... essentially sold hir soul for the bribe of a pleasant "afterlife". To me, it seems that that individual is already living in hir own self-made hell, forced into a life that xhe doesn't believe in for a tenuous "reward" that cannot be proved.

JMTC.

Calla




tweakabelle -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 4:42:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

You cannot, in normal everyday English be "religious" without also being a theist. Theism is the defining feature of religion.


This is a false statement. Buddhism is a religion. It is NOT theistic. Illuminance Fellowship is a religion. It is not theistic. There are also sects of the Quakers, Jainists, and Hindus that are non-theistic. In addition, the Secular Humanists also are a religion that is actively -Atheistic-, rather than just non-theistic.

It is possible to be "religious", meaning that one follows a particular set of tenets that one considers one's "religion" and not be a theist, a deist, or anything else having to do with a god or gods. I know. I'm an Illuminist (Illuminance Fellowship).

Oh, and all of these are in "normal everyday English".

Calla



religion

Pronunciation:/rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
[mass noun]
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0699400#m_en_gb0699400




tweakabelle -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 4:45:13 PM)

sorry when it come down to arguing what everyday words mean i'm over it
Good luck all




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 4:53:29 PM)

quote:

EmailCite
Text size: A
A
religion
Line-break:OnOff
Pronunciation:/rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
[mass noun]
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0699400#m_en_gb0699400


If you're going to hand-pick definitions, you'd best be thorough if you plan on using them as an effective argument. Please note the bolded definitions, which do not require 'deity' to be considered as valid definitions. On a purely practical basis, the fact that there are religions which do not require deity automatically supersedes any definition which -requires- such. Religions without diety exist. Therefore, "religion" does NOT require deity. Period.


re·li·gion
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

7.
religions, Archaic . religious rites.
8.
Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.
get religion, Informal .
a.
to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.
to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products




tazzygirl -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 8:55:55 PM)

quote:

tazzygirl, in normal everyday English:

a belief system including theism = religion
a belief system excluding theism = (secular) philosophy/ideology

Therefore when you say " I am religious" it must include saying "I am a theist". You cannot, in normal everyday English be "religious" without also being a theist. Theism is the defining feature of religion.

Either you are aware of this - and therefore deliberately misleading everyone else here - or you are unaware of this - in which case you need to re-learn simple English.

Your choice and I wish you well with whatever option you choose.*

Please excuse my directness but i feel you have left me with no other choice.



*It is just possible, but unlikely, that these words carry different connotations in the USA than the rest of the English speaking world. I rather doubt it but if that is in fact the case, please accept my apologies.


Its just possible that you are not as well read as you believe yourself to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=atheistphilo

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy/god_theorem/god_theorem/node22.html

(Gotta love the Quakers)

Quakers are most definitely non-theists, rejecting creed in the form of theistic revelations that must be clung to against all reason and common sense (where the latter, after all, is an important part of that inner light that illuminates each person's search for truth) while still retaining doctrine - the idea that sure, there have been inspired people in the past who have written things that are well worth reading and that can help lead one to truth, and that some of those writings give a loose structure to the Society of Friends.

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy/god_theorem/god_theorem/node25.html

http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/nontheisticreligion

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Nontheism?qsrc=3044#Nontheistic_religions

Reading does help broaden the mind.




tazzygirl -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 8:56:57 PM)

Thank you Calla for pointing out the difference.




GotSteel -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 9:38:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
In addition, the Secular Humanists also are a religion that is actively -Atheistic-, rather than just non-theistic.

I agree with your point but disagree with this example. I'm under the impression that Secular Humanism is a philosophy as opposed to a religion. At least that seems to be how they self identify.




thompsonx -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 10:03:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

fighting is for adolescent morons

This is precisely why I put the question to you in the first place.




Would it be a mischaracterization to say that you are not,therefore, interested in discussion?




GotSteel -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/28/2010 10:20:10 PM)

Yeah Pascal's Wager is full of issues but I haven't had a lot of success getting theists that use Pascal's Wager to grasp that by pointing the problems out. I'm hoping that presenting the gambit with a different deity will let Jaybeee see it from a different angle and gain an understanding of why it isn't working when he uses it on non-theists.




Icarys -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:08:13 AM)

quote:

Would it be a mischaracterization to say that you are not,therefore, interested in discussion?

With someone that's an adolescent moron, such as yourself? Absolutely not.




Icarys -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:17:25 AM)

Not that you are wrong of course here but I figured we'd get another definition out there.

Theism
(th[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/image]z[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]m)n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.




thompsonx -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:20:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Would it be a mischaracterization to say that you are not,therefore, interested in discussion?

With someone that's an adolescent moron, such as yourself? Absolutely not.



You are clearly better at name calling than discussion so it is probably best that you not embarass yourself further by exposing the depth of your ignorance in a discussion with me.
Please do try to enjoy your self imposed ignorance.




tazzygirl -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:39:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Not that you are wrong of course here but I figured we'd get another definition out there.

Theism
(th[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/image]z[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]m)n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.


This definition isnt in dispute, at least from my stand point.




Icarys -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:55:16 AM)

quote:

This definition isnt in dispute, at least from my stand point.

Someone made a claim about you being pro-theistic so I was showing the definition of.

Did I say it was in dispute BTW?




Icarys -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:56:50 AM)

quote:

You are clearly better at name calling than discussion so it is probably best that you not embarass yourself further by exposing the depth of your ignorance in a discussion with me.
Please do try to enjoy your self imposed ignorance.

Sure sure.[8|]




mnottertail -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 6:59:17 AM)

I don't see all the dictionary fuss here.

I think aetheists are some damn swell fellers.




tazzygirl -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 7:02:21 AM)

I think some atheists are too, Master Ron. I think some have a few screws missing and are as fanatical in their thinking as some religious nut cases.




tazzygirl -> RE: What do you think of Aetheists? (11/29/2010 7:03:42 AM)

Naaa... my beliefs would make some heads explode. LOL... best not to go there [;)] But they are hardly in line with the "god as creator and ruler" bit.




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