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Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/19/2010 8:56:57 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think this is true of virtually all wealthy people - they want to pay their fair share of taxes. The Republican demand to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy is insane because the deficit will increase to unacceptable levels and there will not be enough money to pay for essential services such as police, fire departments and schools. Furthermore, the nation is at risk to become insolvent.

Republicans are fiscally irresponsible. Why they have a reputation as fiscally conservative is because they lie frequently about Democrats over spending.

Millionaires to Obama: Tax us

Anti-tax activists everywhere have been loudly arguing for an extension of George W. Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans in the United States. Now a group of millionaires is arguing the opposite.

More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration, as Salon reports.

"For the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you allow tax cuts on incomes over $1,000,000 to expire at the end of this year as scheduled," their website states. "We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned an income of $1,000,000 per year or more."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20101119/ts_yblog_theticket/millionaires-to-obama-tax-us
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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/19/2010 9:31:51 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Anything from Al Gore?

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/19/2010 11:27:25 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
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From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		I think a million dollar's is a fair compromise.Those making over a million dollar's have been getting tax break's for about 10 year's now.America can't afford this insane debt when those more than caple of paying their fairshare won't... I live in Flordia where there is no State Income Tax at all.Plus the millionaire's in Flordia have had a nice tax break from the federal government.I think it's time for those in Flordia making over a million dollars,to pay their fairshare.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/19/2010 11:41:34 PM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		If the "millionaires" were really concerned about the government going broke, they could always just give them the money

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 12:27:52 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Anyone remember this one?  Hedge fund managers have their profits taxed as capital gains instead of ordinary income.  We're talking millions of dollars here.

I'm waiting for some Republican (hell, even a Democrat) to step up to the plate and say it's time for a war tax.  Fighting 2 wars on credit cards is just plain batshit.  You ain't going to get that kind of money by cutting costs.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 8:46:27 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If the "millionaires" were really concerned about the government going broke, they could always just give them the money


Uh.......Robbie, they are offering to have their taxes increased.

Am I missing something in your always astute logic?

Doesn't offering to have their taxes increased equate to giving the government money?

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 10:47:18 AM   
popeye1250


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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 11:08:02 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If the "millionaires" were really concerned about the government going broke, they could always just give them the money


Uh.......Robbie, they are offering to have their taxes increased.

Am I missing something in your always astute logic?

Doesn't offering to have their taxes increased equate to giving the government money?



Not really.  You see, they will just put their money into tax shelters.  It is the reason that huge taxes on the wealthy bring in less tax revenue than lower ones.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 11:30:00 AM   
luckydawg


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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 12:49:45 PM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
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Status: offline 		I have been told that if people who make great money would use a good tax consultant, that would almost never pay the top tax bracket. Several years ago, my now ex son-in-law, made$333000. I made $60000, and I paid more taxes than he did. I have often wondered what the rich really acutally pay, with all the loop holes in are tax code

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 2:17:28 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

If the "millionaires" were really concerned about the government going broke, they could always just give them the money


Uh.......Robbie, they are offering to have their taxes increased.

Am I missing something in your always astute logic?

Doesn't offering to have their taxes increased equate to giving the government money?



Not really.  You see, they will just put their money into tax shelters.  It is the reason that huge taxes on the wealthy bring in less tax revenue than lower ones.


Which is the type of backwards logic that brought us golden shower economics.

"If only we make things easier for the wealthy they will bestow on us their abundance".

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 4:21:29 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Which is the type of backwards logic that brought us golden shower economics.

"If only we make things easier for the wealthy they will bestow on us their abundance".



No, I was specifically refering to what was happening in the early part of the 20th century.  Not backwards logic, but history.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 4:48:37 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Which is the type of backwards logic that brought us golden shower economics.

"If only we make things easier for the wealthy they will bestow on us their abundance".



No, I was specifically refering to what was happening in the early part of the 20th century.  Not backwards logic, but history.


Well, I looked back at the earlier post and did not see where you were specifically referring to that.

But more to the point, how does what happened in the early part of the 20th century have any bearing on what is happening now?

I have a respect for history and understand that history often repeats itself, but I don't see the connection you are trying to make.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 5:19:41 PM   
chiaThePet


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Donald Trump called.

He wants to set the record straight.

They said, "Fax us".

Oh, and Brain, "You're Fired".

ivanka* (the pet)


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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 8:40:04 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Which is the type of backwards logic that brought us golden shower economics.

"If only we make things easier for the wealthy they will bestow on us their abundance".



No, I was specifically refering to what was happening in the early part of the 20th century.  Not backwards logic, but history.


Well, I looked back at the earlier post and did not see where you were specifically referring to that.

But more to the point, how does what happened in the early part of the 20th century have any bearing on what is happening now?

I have a respect for history and understand that history often repeats itself, but I don't see the connection you are trying to make.



I went and actually looked it up so that I had the correct administrations. 

Woodrow Wilson pushed for the reduction in income tax.  It did not work.  Warren G. Harding was elected.  He did get through the lower income taxes.  What happened next was that the government actually collected MORE revenue. 


Table 5
Federal Income Tax Revenue by Income Class, 1921 and 1926
                                               Revenue Collecteda                      Percent of Total
Income Class                           1921                1926                1921                1926
Less than $10,000                   155.1               32.5                 22.5                 4.6
$10,000 - $25,000                   121.8               70.3                 17.6                 9.9
$25,000 - $50,000                   108.3               109.4               15.7                 15.4
$50,000 - $100,000                 111.1               136.6               16.1                 19.2
Over $100,000                        194.0               361.5               28.1                 50.9
Total                                     690.2               710.2               100.0               100.0

Source: James Gwartney and Richard Stroup, "Tax Cuts: Who Shoulders the Burden?" Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta Economic Review, March 1982, p. 25.
aMillions of constant 1929 dollars.



So anyways the point is that if we increase the tax percent on the very wealthy, they will find ways of sheltering their money.  So tax revenue will actually go down. 

Actually you can look at California in the last 40 years or so and see what would happen on a larger scale. 

< Message edited by Aylee -- 11/20/2010 8:52:25 PM >

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 8:48:16 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry, but if you have to reach back to 1921 then something is wrong.

Why don't you show us the data about the Bush tax cuts increasing revenue?



< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2010 8:49:09 PM >

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 8:55:58 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Sorry, but if you have to reach back to 1921 then something is wrong.

Why don't you show us the data about the Bush tax cuts increasing revenue?




What?

Now you are moving the goal posts. 

I said that historically this is what happens. 

You questioned that.

I refered back to the early 20th century.

You wanted me to prove it.

Now you want me to prove something that I did not even refer to. 

Do your own research if you are interested in that. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 9:29:39 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Figures a dumb leftist would think saying someting is the same as doing something.


Behave Puppydawg or I'll have to smack you on your snout.



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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 9:39:01 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

What?

Now you are moving the goal posts. 

I said that historically this is what happens. 

You questioned that.

I refered back to the early 20th century.

You wanted me to prove it.

Now you want me to prove something that I did not even refer to. 

Do your own research if you are interested in that. 


I'm not moving the goalposts at all.

Unless I'm misreading something here you made a claim that tax revenues increase when taxes decrease, but instead of looking at recent history, which would prove your claim wrong, you had to go all the way back to the 1920's.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2010 9:43:44 PM >

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RE: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us - 11/20/2010 10:06:43 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

What?

Now you are moving the goal posts. 

I said that historically this is what happens. 

You questioned that.

I refered back to the early 20th century.

You wanted me to prove it.

Now you want me to prove something that I did not even refer to. 

Do your own research if you are interested in that. 


I'm not moving the goalposts at all.

Unless I'm misreading something here you made a claim that tax revenues increase when taxes decrease, but instead of looking at recent history, which would prove your claim wrong, you had to go all the way back to the 1920's.





Okay. . . it also worked with the JFK/LBJ administrations and the Regan administration.

High rates produce little revenue and lead to a proliferation of legal tax deductions, which create complexity and distorted economic decisionmaking, as well as encouraging tax evasion.

It also encourages and leads to inflation.

As far as the Bush tax cuts, once again they did produce MORE tax revenue.  40% more (743 billion)

So there you go.  A historical showing that every administration that lowered the taxes had an increase in tax revenue throughout the whole period of income tax.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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