RE: I'm conflicted about this one.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: I'm conflicted about this one.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: I'm conflicted about this one.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 6:52:05 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

As I mentioned English is my 3rd language, it means I went to a university, studied, got awarded a BA and an MA, qualified for a PhD program, worked on it for a few years to write a thesis, then defended the thesis and they saw fit to award me a doctorate...

I'm not surprised that you don't get it, there seem to be quite a few things you don't get, but maybe you would like to continue this in another language? Maybe you would get it then?

No, I "got" no other languages.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2010 6:53:18 PM >

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Profile

Post #: 41

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 6:57:36 PM

January

Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

The solution is not to make kids stay in school, the solution is to make school something worth staying in.

I agree with you, Elisabella. However, a ludicris show takes an afternoon; changing a society takes lifetimes. They aren't equivalent choices. Better a momentary afternoon boost, than nothing at all.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to Elisabella)

Profile

Post #: 42

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:00:51 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

quote:

You "got" a PhD?

Got is perfectly legitimate usage. It doesn't mean she has a Ph. D. It means she worked and obtained one.

January

Yeah....

It's pretty bad that the incorrect usage is so ingrained in his mind that he's unable to recognize the correct usage.

Got?

Really?

There are very few correct uses.

But I got to go now.

(in reply to Elisabella)

Profile

Post #: 43

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:02:48 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

As I mentioned English is my 3rd language, it means I went to a university, studied, got awarded a BA and an MA, qualified for a PhD program, worked on it for a few years to write a thesis, then defended the thesis and they saw fit to award me a doctorate...

I'm not surprised that you don't get it, there seem to be quite a few things you don't get, but maybe you would like to continue this in another language? Maybe you would get it then?

No, I "got" no other languages.

Obviously you haven't got much... Checked your profile - that does explain A LOT

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 44

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:04:27 PM

January

Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

But I got to go now.

That's supposed to be "I gotta go now"

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 45

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:05:18 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

quote:

You "got" a PhD?

Got is perfectly legitimate usage. It doesn't mean she has a Ph. D. It means she worked and obtained one.

January

Yeah....

It's pretty bad that the incorrect usage is so ingrained in his mind that he's unable to recognize the correct usage.

Got?

Really?

There are very few correct uses.

But I got to go now.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out - got that?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 46

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:19:32 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

quote:

You "got" a PhD?

Got is perfectly legitimate usage. It doesn't mean she has a Ph. D. It means she worked and obtained one.

January

Yeah....

It's pretty bad that the incorrect usage is so ingrained in his mind that he's unable to recognize the correct usage.

Got?

Really?

There are very few correct uses.

But I got to go now.

No, it would be "I've got to go now." Your sentence is grammatically incorrect.

However, saying I attended University and got a PhD is absolutely correct.

I've got a headache imagining that this needs to be explained.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 47

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:27:29 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

No, it would be "I've got to go now." Your sentence is grammatically incorrect.

However, saying I attended University and got a PhD is absolutely correct.

I've got a headache imagining that this needs to be explained.

Not to be nitpicking and please bear in mind English my 3rd language, but how would one "get" a PhD without attending a university? I hope I didn't waste 3 years of research for something that is easily available from QVC

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Aynne88)

Profile

Post #: 48

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:32:52 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

Correct. I was in agreement with you LadyC, and pointing out the incorrect usage of the word "got" by rule. Sorry if I was not clear enough. I thought I was.

I've got to go get a drink now.

.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Profile

Post #: 49

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:54:01 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Correct. I was in agreement with you LadyC, and pointing out the incorrect usage of the word "got" by rule. Sorry if I was not clear enough. I thought I was.

I've got to go get a drink now. .

I know you were and I thank you for that, I was just wondering if I had a logical flaw there somewhere ;)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Aynne88)

Profile

Post #: 50

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:55:12 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

Not that I saw.

. Of course I'm illogical sometimes so don't hold me to it!

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Profile

Post #: 51

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 7:59:21 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

"I have got" is redundant (in the sentences you used to demonstrate); "I have" is sufficient.

To use have and got together like that, you'd need to be using perfect tense, in which case you'd need the past participle "gotten," not the past tense "got."

FYI.

"I have a cold. I have gotten colds every November since I can remember."

You could also use got similarly.

"I get colds every November. I got a cold this year too."

So then,

"I have a college degree. I got my degree on a sunny day in May."

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/20/2010 8:04:44 PM >

(in reply to Aynne88)

Profile

Post #: 52

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 8:20:20 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

Mea culpa, as I said, English is my 3rd language, I always thought I am managing to be understood...

I got my PhD a few years ago - is that better?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Profile

Post #: 53

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 8:36:31 PM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

Lady C

"A degree doesn't give you a job, what you make out of it does."

Here's the problem as I see it. It's clear that you bring a lot to the table for your career beyond your degrees. But you just made the point as to why education isn't hacking it. You're successful- and you have degrees. It's clear that you don't consider that your degrees made you successful. (I'm sorry- I've gathered that English is not your native tongue and I know I can be a bit subtle in my language. My second language is very rusty schoolboy French, so I'm afraid that's not much help.) But that's the problem- most kids in school are not going to bring to the table what you do. My point is that if the kid can slog out a tough degree program- that should be enough to get a good job. You've just made the point that it may not be....

Elisabella

There was a recent article in the NYT about a large school (4000 plus students) that had all of the problems you described- failing students, inner city kids that make the need for metal detectors and cops necessary, etc. The current mantra is that schools like this need to be shut down, and a bunch of smaller schools created. Except that this school is now doing pretty good in national rankings. Apparently they had a pretty good teacher who had some ideas about how to turn things around and a principal that let her run with it. She got the teachers involved with doing a better job- and she succeeded. IIRC- some of the teachers needed help too.

I was a grad student at Dartmouth- so I got to see a relatively homogenous student body. But a few of the kids were from inner city schools- and within a year- they had blended in. Yes, their education had been deficient- especially in the sciences. Didn't mean the kids weren't smart and actually had some decent skills in language.

Sam

(in reply to January)

Profile

Post #: 54

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 8:39:47 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Whatever works is what is what is important.
The what is immaterial.

Having motivated students is wonderful. I'm not sure that having students who are not motivated makes any sense. School for them is nothing more than day care.

i think you're both right. The question is whether the celebrities are actually movitating the students, and i'd say, probably not, in the long run. Maybe this tactic gets kid's attention. But i'm sure the glamour wears off in a day or two when reality sets in and they realise that it's hard work. The hot shots probably forgot to mention that part.

This strategy seems like sticking a bandaid on someone who's bleeding to death. Like, it's a good thought, but just not nearly enough; almost insulting. There is no quick fix to underachievement in schools. The school system needs some serious revamping, not a gimick. Students need to learn discipline, not watch a couple of acts. The idea that such a serious problem can be fixed in this way... well, at least the schools are doing something.

i have to disagree with You on this part, Steven. i think that having unmotivated and deadbeat kids in school is still better than having them on the street. Marginally better, but still better.

You know what i really think? i may get roasted for this, but i think there should be trade schools. Not everyone is academically inclined, not everyone is college bound. There is nothing wrong with that, either, except that the schools, the curriculum, seem to ignore it. i bet there are students who can't be motivated to learn algebra and Shakespeare, but who could really get into cooking, auto maintenance, farming, construction, whatever. There is no shame in that kind of honest work, work that, often, pays more than what you could earn with a B.A. Work which, however, still requires focus, effort, and discipline, and so, if THAT is the problem... and kids still need to learn how to read and count, even if they're not going to college...

i don't know. i guess i have mixed feelings on this. My mom's an elementary school teacher. i have a tremendous amount of sympathy for her. i see how hard she works. i see how frustrated she becomes at the politics, the curriculum, the stupid laws, and at her students when they don't apply themselves. i was helping her correct papers a while back. Most of her students are writing at well below grade level- several grades below where they should be. They were so bad. It was shocking. i don't know why.

i'm with angelicaJ. Whatever works. Absolutely anything at all. i'm just not sure that Ludacris is working.

pam

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Profile

Post #: 55

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 8:53:24 PM

eihwaz

Posts: 367
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
A pep rally at a Denver school featured celebs from hip hop and sports. The message: stay in school...

On one hand, why not? On the other hand, what sort of motivations should we be using to keep students in school?
...
I want their focus to be on learning, not on being a wannabe celeb.

Heroes can be valuable role models, exemplifying a possible life path, and validating a young person's nascent passions and ambitions. So there can be value in high status individuals (aka celebrities) inspiring students.

There was a time in American society when our heroes included leading scientists, artists, engineers, inventors, explorers, jurists, politicians, and military leaders and, as a society, we valued making a contribution, not just celebrity for its own sake, more in the past. That this is no longer true is indicative of what our (American) society values.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Profile

Post #: 56

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 8:57:44 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

Sam,

I think it is the education system, I was told through out my whole education by teachers and professors that we made it so far, but there is a lot more ahead and we haven't really achieved something. I hated them, seriously, you go through all sorts of tests, they try to poke holes into you during the oral exams, they give you written exams that make you sweat blood and tears, not to mention the homework, you went through internships and slugged your guts out, they graded that and criticized you, how dare they tell you that you haven't really achieved a thing?

I am well aware that my English is far from perfect, when I studied at universities where English was the native language, I had to suck it up and do my best, it was "Well, you're here and the language here is English, if you want to make the break, catch up". I live in the UK now, the son of my boss goes to college and he asks me for help with his homework, it's full of spelling mistakes, he spells phonetically - I correct it and tell him, he laughs and tells me it doesn't matter, it's his native language and his spelling is atrocious, he sees no reason to change it as it is accepted, he will get a degree... You ask him what he's going to do with it, he thinks that employers will knock on his door and offer him jobs... I feel old, about 10 years ago I knew that I had to offer more than just a degree to compete in the job market. I feel a bit like an idiot because I am still paying back student loans, he won't, he got grants...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to gungadin09)

Profile

Post #: 57

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/20/2010 9:54:50 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

There was a time in American society when our heroes included leading scientists, artists, engineers, inventors, explorers, jurists, politicians, and military leaders and, as a society, we valued making a contribution, not just celebrity for its own sake, more in the past. That this is no longer true is indicative of what our (American) society values.

Bingo. i think that's a big part of the problem facing education, really.

pam

(in reply to eihwaz)

Profile

Post #: 58

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/21/2010 10:32:15 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Another way to look at it, is since the link between getting a good education leading to a career and success is broken, you'd better replace it with something. Kids today have figured out they're getting a raw deal, even if they can't defend it with numbers. Since logic isn't going to work to keep kids in school, you have to try something else. The sad fact is that if you're in an inner city and you want to make money- the best way to do it is to become a drug dealer. Your odds are probably better than going to an ivy league school.

This is the same logic that pointed out that if you're without many resources, playing the lottery may in fact, represent your best chance out of the mire. This is what happens when you become a two tiered society.

Sam

Yes. They always told us how "expensive" ignorance was, how foolish it was to drop out of school. In restaurants where i've worked, most of the cooks never finished high school, let alone college. Yet they work very hard and make a good living. Plus, they don't have student loans to pay off. i'm doing worse than they are right now, despite my education, or, rather, because of it. They never told us about that one in school. The realities of the workplace have changed. They need to change the propaganda.

pam

(in reply to samboct)

Profile

Post #: 59

RE: I'm conflicted about this one. - 11/22/2010 3:25:02 AM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

There was a recent article in the NYT about a large school (4000 plus students) that had all of the problems you described- failing students, inner city kids that make the need for metal detectors and cops necessary, etc. The current mantra is that schools like this need to be shut down, and a bunch of smaller schools created. Except that this school is now doing pretty good in national rankings. Apparently they had a pretty good teacher who had some ideas about how to turn things around and a principal that let her run with it. She got the teachers involved with doing a better job- and she succeeded. IIRC- some of the teachers needed help too.

I think people like this are incredible, and whatever they paid Ludacris to come talk to the kids would have been better spent bringing this woman to come talk to the teachers.

I remember hearing about programs that offer scholarships to education majors, so long as they sign a contract to teach in a failing school for a set period once they graduate. Programs like that are able to do just a bit to shift the balance, normally it's the students at the bottom of their college class who go on to teach at inner city public schools.

I also think that kids who can't read or really do anything should be held back. There should be standards for students, it seems like high school students in the ghetto are held to a lower standard than primary students at private schools and lowering the bar just lowers what they're capable of.

WRT bringing rappers in, I think it would be a motivator if, say, the rappers did a show for everyone who had a B average or a certain attendance percentage, instead of just coming in to give a "motivational speech" because it teaches kids that working hard gets results, and not everyone will be rewarded just for existing. The attendance requirement would probably be better to reward students who might not be the brightest but at least try hard, and of course exceptions could be made for illnesses, because missing a month of school when you get mono is different from missing a month of school because you take 4 "sick days" a month to go to the beach.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 11/22/2010 3:31:41 AM >

(in reply to samboct)

Profile

Post #: 60