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IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 8:09:46 PM   
ElegantDoll


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Status: offline 		would that really make much of a difference to the majority of any religion's beliefs? I mean if a deity/God/Goddess made a monkey, then why would it be such a leap that he/she/it made it so that everything has to evolve?

(FYI: Humans, and chimps may have come from a direct ancestor, but neither evolve from monkeys. Just for clarification there.)
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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 8:39:35 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		So your premise is that if evolution was God's choice to create humans, that that is just as valid within the context of religion as the Adam and Eve story.

Actually, I knew a thermodynamics professor that used the third law of Thermo to make an associated point - that evolution, being a transition from a less-ordered state (one celled animals) to a highly-evolved state (humans) was impossible unless an outside force acted upon it - namely God.


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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 8:51:21 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElegantDoll

would that really make much of a difference to the majority of any religion's beliefs? I mean if a deity/God/Goddess made a monkey, then why would it be such a leap that he/she/it made it so that everything has to evolve?

(FYI: Humans, and chimps may have come from a direct ancestor, but neither evolve from monkeys. Just for clarification there.)



Because monkeys can't drive Cadillacs?

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 8:59:20 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		actually for me my religious beliefs co-exist with science in that I believe that evolution did happen because that is how God wanted it to happen. God created science. For me it has always seemed so logical and easy.


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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 9:36:59 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElegantDoll

would that really make much of a difference to the majority of any religion's beliefs? I mean if a deity/God/Goddess made a monkey, then why would it be such a leap that he/she/it made it so that everything has to evolve?



Because many people forget that g*d is a mystery and knows everything.  If science contradicts g*d it just might be that we are not all ready to know and understand that all that g*d knows.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 9:42:46 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
So your premise is that if evolution was God's choice to create humans, that that is just as valid within the context of religion as the Adam and Eve story.

Actually, I knew a thermodynamics professor that used the third law of Thermo to make an associated point - that evolution, being a transition from a less-ordered state (one celled animals) to a highly-evolved state (humans) was impossible unless an outside force acted upon it - namely God.

That's a really clueless thermo prof; the third law applies to closed systems.  This world is not even close to being a closed system.

If that was really a violation of the third law, how does he explain a child developing from only 2 cells (less complex to more complex)?

If that would such a violations of the 3rd law, there wouldn't be a 3rd law.  Given such evidence, people would fly the bullshit flag!

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 9:51:18 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
So your premise is that if evolution was God's choice to create humans, that that is just as valid within the context of religion as the Adam and Eve story.

Actually, I knew a thermodynamics professor that used the third law of Thermo to make an associated point - that evolution, being a transition from a less-ordered state (one celled animals) to a highly-evolved state (humans) was impossible unless an outside force acted upon it - namely God.

That's a really clueless thermo prof; the third law applies to closed systems.  This world is not even close to being a closed system.

If that was really a violation of the third law, how does he explain a child developing from only 2 cells (less complex to more complex)?

If that would such a violations of the 3rd law, there wouldn't be a 3rd law.  Given such evidence, people would fly the bullshit flag!



Now I am completely lost.  I thought that the 3rd law dealt with entropy.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/21/2010 11:29:00 PM   
AlwaysLisa


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Since this thread is talking evolution vs the "poof" theory (poof being God raising his hand and "poof", man is made)..I would like to toss this into the fray.    A prisoner of Catholic school until 15, when I started asking the nuns some questions they couldn't answer, so I will ask here, in line with evolution.....if God created man in his image, why are babies conceived as females until they either get the extra gene or they don't.  Bottom line..when conceived, everyone started out as little Brittney Spears.  If man was Gods image, why wouldn't it be the opposite?

We've got some pretty intelligent folks here...I'm curious as to the responses...since the nuns never did answer me!

Lisa

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 12:02:57 AM   
NihilusZero


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Status: offline 		It's the 2nd law being discussed here (and nonsensically echoed in creationist garble), not the 3rd.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 12:06:22 AM   
GreedyTop


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NZ!!!  *tacklehug*

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 2:13:04 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
.....if God created man in his image, why are babies conceived as females until they either get the extra gene or they don't.  Bottom line..when conceived, everyone started out as little Brittney Spears.  If man was Gods image, why wouldn't it be the opposite?

Lisa


That's only if you limit god to being male in the first place.  If you don't limit god, then it doesn't become an issue.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 2:15:55 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It's the 2nd law being discussed here (and nonsensically echoed in creationist garble), not the 3rd.


Damn laws.

yours
the.anarchist.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 2:44:24 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL:

That's only if you limit god to being male in the first place.  If you don't limit god, then it doesn't become an issue.
Lisa




hmmm.. g*d as an hermaphrodite ...? There's a thought! Though I seem to recall the Hindus have been there, done that, already.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 2:54:04 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

hmmm.. g*d as an hermaphrodite ...? There's a thought!




... that said, again, even labelling god as an hermaphrodite is limiting.
Blergh.  As embarressing as it is, I'll dig 2Unlimited.  Hurrah for random 80's pop culture.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 3:26:20 AM   
hard2handle1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

*raises hand*

Since this thread is talking evolution vs the "poof" theory (poof being God raising his hand and "poof", man is made)..I would like to toss this into the fray.    A prisoner of Catholic school until 15, when I started asking the nuns some questions they couldn't answer, so I will ask here, in line with evolution.....if God created man in his image, why are babies conceived as females until they either get the extra gene or they don't.  Bottom line..when conceived, everyone started out as little Brittney Spears.  If man was Gods image, why wouldn't it be the opposite?

We've got some pretty intelligent folks here...I'm curious as to the responses...since the nuns never did answer me!

Lisa


God is transgendered, perhaps. So he made man, his favoured gender, in his image, complete with transition, and left woman in her original, undeveloped state.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 3:35:19 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hard2handle1

God is transgendered, perhaps. So he made man, his favoured gender, in his image, complete with transition, and left woman in her original, undeveloped state.



Nonsense. God made Satan first, then Satan made women.


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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 4:45:13 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

*raises hand*

Since this thread is talking evolution vs the "poof" theory (poof being God raising his hand and "poof", man is made)..I would like to toss this into the fray.    A prisoner of Catholic school until 15, when I started asking the nuns some questions they couldn't answer, so I will ask here, in line with evolution.....if God created man in his image, why are babies conceived as females until they either get the extra gene or they don't.  Bottom line..when conceived, everyone started out as little Brittney Spears.  If man was Gods image, why wouldn't it be the opposite?

We've got some pretty intelligent folks here...I'm curious as to the responses...since the nuns never did answer me!

Lisa


Exactly the reason I stopped believing.

I asked those nuns probably the same questions you did and the only answer was "you must have faith".

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 5:01:33 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Because many people forget that g*d is a mystery and knows everything.  If science contradicts g*d it just might be that we are not all ready to know and understand that all that g*d knows.


I know what you mean.

What's always puzzled me is how S*nta gets those reindeer to fly and how he manages to get his fat ass down all those chimneys.

But I guess we are just not ready to know and understand that.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 5:52:41 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

*raises hand*

Since this thread is talking evolution vs the "poof" theory (poof being God raising his hand and "poof", man is made)..I would like to toss this into the fray.    A prisoner of Catholic school until 15, when I started asking the nuns some questions they couldn't answer, so I will ask here, in line with evolution.....if God created man in his image, why are babies conceived as females until they either get the extra gene or they don't.  Bottom line..when conceived, everyone started out as little Brittney Spears.  If man was Gods image, why wouldn't it be the opposite?

We've got some pretty intelligent folks here...I'm curious as to the responses...since the nuns never did answer me!

Lisa


1.  Because g*d had to make us replicating. 
2.  It is not really true that they are "female."  The zygote has an X and a Y as the 23rd chromosome pair if they are male.  The egg is an X and the sperm would be an X or Y. 
3.  Doesn't "image" refer to self-awareness, consciousness, or soul or something like that? 
4.  G*d is not bound by human form.
5.  I would be much more interested in knowing if Adam and Eve had a belly button. 


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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: IF we came from monkeys... - 11/22/2010 5:54:48 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Because many people forget that g*d is a mystery and knows everything.  If science contradicts g*d it just might be that we are not all ready to know and understand that all that g*d knows.


I know what you mean.

What's always puzzled me is how S*nta gets those reindeer to fly and how he manages to get his fat ass down all those chimneys.

But I guess we are just not ready to know and understand that.



That one is easy.

Santa is magical! 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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