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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 6:50:58 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Because they looked at the entire system and didn't focus on one thing.   Look at recommendation 3 starting on page 15 of the original report
quote:


3. Create a Simple, Pro-growth Tax System
• Cut tax rates; broaden the tax base; boost incentives to work, save, and invest; and ensure, by 2018, that nearly 90 million households (about half of potential tax filers) no longer have to file tax returns.
 Cut individual income tax rates and establish just two rates – 15 and 27 percent – replacing the current six rates that go up to 35 percent.
 Cut the top corporate tax rate to 27 percent from its current 35 percent, making the United States a more attractive place to invest.
 Eliminate most deductions and credits and simplify those that remain while making them better targeted and more effective.
 Replace the deductions for mortgage interest and charitable contributions with 15 percent refundable credits that anyone who owns a home or gives to charity can claim.
 Restructure provisions that benefit low-income taxpayers and families with children by making them simpler, more progressive, and enabling most recipients to receive them without filing tax returns.

source:  http://bipartisanpolicy.org/sites/default/files/FINAL%20DRTF%20EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY_0.pdf



And so we will raise revenue by reducing taxes? Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, it is the Laffer Curve, also known as supply side economics, which has now been totally discredited BY THE SAME FUCKING PEOPLE WHO INVENTED IT.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 6:56:20 PM   
tazzygirl


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I just cant wrap my head around the fact that if you bring in less, you save money.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 6:58:51 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I just cant wrap my head around the fact that if you bring in less, you save money.


It's quite simple tazzy- lowering tax rates stimulates the economy, therby raising revenue.

In fact, if tax rates were reduced to zero, revenue would be infinite.

Woo Hoo! Free beer and pizza for everybuddy!

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 7:01:14 PM   
tazzygirl


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Lowering taxes puts more money into people's pockets... i can understand that. Then you are banking on the people spending that money. Some will... some wont. A tax base of zero is a risky prospect indeed. But, how would you pay for the things the tax base pays for?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 7:01:27 PM   
KenDckey


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Lowering taxes yes but not really, It just looks that way.   It gets rid of the deductions that keep the rich rich.   You get rid of the deductions and you aren't really reducing them,   I do believe that we know already that the tax code doesn't work as it is.   It is a huge mess and I believe we can agree that it needs revision.   This is the way unless we just go to a flat tax.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 7:02:58 PM   
tazzygirl


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I would prefer a flat tax... its easier, cheaper, and requires a dramatic drop in the IRS work force and tax code.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 7:18:20 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I would prefer a flat tax... its easier, cheaper, and requires a dramatic drop in the IRS work force and tax code.


Works for me   :)

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 7:51:53 PM   
Musicmystery


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The reason this will never see the light of day is that it contains something for everyone to hate--as it MUST to reduce the debt. AND it means going after what no one wants to touch.

Instead, people will continue to champion only the agenda they like, none of which will reduce the deficit.

Hell, the new Republican talking point is to "grow our way" out of the deficit.

How the fuck they're gonna do that, they don't seem to know. Just that it will somehow happen.

Maybe if they close their eyes and click their heels.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 7:58:04 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The reason this will never see the light of day is that it contains something for everyone to hate--as it MUST to reduce the debt. AND it means going after what no one wants to touch.

Instead, people will continue to champion only the agenda they like, none of which will reduce the deficit.

Hell, the new Republican talking point is to "grow our way" out of the deficit.

How the fuck they're gonna do that, they don't seem to know. Just that it will somehow happen.

Maybe if they close their eyes and click their heels.


I like the plan but agree with you.   Nothning is going to happen with it except the funds expended to make it.  A typical Federal report.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:08:30 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/sites/default/files/FINAL%20DRTF%20EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY_0.pdf

"America is the strongest, most prosperous, and most resilient nation in history. However, America’s leadership and greatness, our strength and prosperity............




I'm not even going to tire myself out trying to point out all the bullshit.

Let me just ask this, do you not find the statement the least bit arrogant?

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:11:48 PM   
Musicmystery


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Maybe. It's also true.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:19:24 PM   
rulemylife


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By the way, your link doesn't work.

Allow me to help.

Bipartisan Policy Center

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:20:49 PM   
KenDckey


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LOL  Rule

Not really.   Is standard way of discribing us.   Nothing new.   Falls under political correctness.   And who knows.   Like Music said,  Might be true.   I don't rule out that possibility.   But I do accept that you can disagree with it.

Besides, like I said in the beginning.   I found things I don't agree with.

But I will say this.   If it were implemented and taken seriously I would support it.   However I know that realistically, the politicans won't (party immaterial)  I also believe that the biggest reason they won't is because it will piss off someone that they don't want pissed off because they didn't get what they wanted.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:24:36 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe. It's also true.


And what would that be MM?

That we need to go around beating our chests to prove we are the best at everything?

Unfortunately, the facts give lie to that.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:30:07 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

LOL  Rule

Not really.   Is standard way of discribing us.   Nothing new.   Falls under political correctness.   And who knows.   Like Music said,  Might be true.   I don't rule out that possibility.   But I do accept that you can disagree with it.

Besides, like I said in the beginning.   I found things I don't agree with.

But I will say this.   If it were implemented and taken seriously I would support it.   However I know that realistically, the politicans won't (party immaterial)  I also believe that the biggest reason they won't is because it will piss off someone that they don't want pissed off because they didn't get what they wanted.



What I have a problem with Ken is the attitude of superiority we have in this country, and that was what I was addressing.

Most Americans have spent little time outside their city, much less the country.

Most Americans have very little idea of what other countries are like.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/23/2010 8:35:38 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:41:13 PM   
KenDckey


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Hey Rule.   I have been to Ethiopia, Eritreia, Egypt, Lebanon, Greece, Italy, France, Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Belgium, Austria, Spain.  Not sure how I missed UK   It was nice watching the movie Passion of the Christ and being able to understand what was said   lol   Altho I did miss a word or two there and there.   I had to learn Amharic and Italian and they are very close to the aramaric and latin spoken in the movie.

Anyway.   It has been my experience that most countries citizens have an attitude of superiourity.   Thier country is the best and the rest of the world is fucked.  

My experiences 

I will agree that the majority of Americans (outside of those that were in the military) have been out of the country, much less speak anyone else's language.

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:47:37 PM   
rulemylife


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My previous comment was made in general, not directed at you personally.

In regard to the concept of superiority, yes I have seen that in other countries as well.

But here we seem to take it to levels I have never seen anywhere else.








< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/23/2010 8:49:57 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:51:20 PM   
Brain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/sites/default/files/FINAL%20DRTF%20EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY_0.pdf

"America is the strongest, most prosperous, and most resilient nation in history. However, America’s leadership and greatness, our strength and prosperity, are not guaranteed. We face two huge challenges simultaneously. First, we must recover from the deep recession that has thrown millions out of work, slashed home values and closed businesses across the country. Second, we must take immediate steps to reduce the unsustainable debt that will be driven by the aging of the population, the rapid growth of healthcare costs, exploding interest costs, and the failure of policymakers to limit and prioritize spending

The plan will balance the “primary budget,” the budget other than interest payments, by 2014.
On a “unified budget basis,” i.e., including interest, the plan will ensure that future budget deficits are small and manageable. But, above all, it will ensure a strong economy for future generations of Americans.

America’s Future will:

• Revive the economy and create 2.5 to 7 million new jobs over two years with a payroll tax holiday.

• Balance the primary budget in 2014, reduce deficits including interest to small and manageable levels, and stabilize the debt below 60 percent of GDP by 2020.

• Create a simple, pro-growth tax system that broadens the base, reduces rates, makes America more competitive, and raises revenue to reduce the debt.

• Reduce the unsustainable rate of growth in healthcare costs.

• Strengthen Social Security to ensure that it will pay benefits for 75 years and beyond, while not increasing the retirement age and protecting the most vulnerable elderly.

• Freeze domestic and defense discretionary spending.

• Cut other spending, including farm and government retirement programs. "

This executive summary is 23 pages long.   Above is some extracts.   The Co-Chairs are Senator Domenici (Republican Author of the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 and the Balanced Budget Act of 1997) and Alice Rivlin (Democrat that worked first with the Clinton Administration and was the OMB and CBO chairs).  The task force was created on January 10, 2010.

OK  My 2 cents.   I don't agree with everything, but I do think it is a nice start.




Just because there are Republicans and Democrats on this so-called bipartisan committee doesn't make it bipartisan. When I see people like Robert Reich, David Stockman, Paul Volker and Paul Krugman or other people of that background and similar philosophy than the commission will carry more weight with me. Just because it's "bipartisan", even though it isn't, doesn't make it good. In my opinion, the present committee leans too far to the right and does not protect vulnerable Americans. To the contrary, the present commission protects those who have done well in the last 30 years.


Four Deformations of the Apocalypse

IF there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing. The nation’s public debt — if honestly reckoned to include municipal bonds and the $7 trillion of new deficits baked into the cake through 2015 — will soon reach $18 trillion. That’s a Greece-scale 120 percent of gross domestic product, and fairly screams out for austerity and sacrifice. It is therefore unseemly for the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, to insist that the nation’s wealthiest taxpayers be spared even a three-percentage-point rate increase.

The second unhappy change in the American economy has been the extraordinary growth of our public debt. In 1970 it was just 40 percent of gross domestic product, or about $425 billion. When it reaches $18 trillion, it will be 40 times greater than in 1970. This debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.

The third ominous change in the American economy has been the vast, unproductive expansion of our financial sector. Here, Republicans have been oblivious to the grave danger of flooding financial markets with freely printed money and, at the same time, removing traditional restrictions on leverage and speculation. As a result, the combined assets of conventional banks and the so-called shadow banking system (including investment banks and finance companies) grew from a mere $500 billion in 1970 to $30 trillion by September 2008. The fourth destructive change has been the hollowing out of the larger American economy. Having lived beyond our means for decades by borrowing heavily from abroad, we have steadily sent jobs and production offshore.

It is not surprising, then, that during the last bubble (from 2002 to 2006) the top 1 percent of Americans — paid mainly from the Wall Street casino — received two-thirds of the gain in national income, while the bottom 90 percent — mainly dependent on Main Street’s shrinking economy — got only 12 percent. This growing wealth gap is not the market’s fault. It’s the decaying fruit of bad economic policy. The day of national reckoning has arrived. We will not have a conventional business recovery now, but rather a long hangover of debt liquidation and downsizing...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all


David Stockman, a director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan, is working on a book about the financial crisis.





Attachment (1)

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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/23/2010 8:53:10 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe. It's also true.
tua

And what would that be MM?

That we need to go around beating our chests to prove we are the best at everything?

Unfortunately, the facts give lie to that.



You are an asshole.

With the statement, obviously, and I agreed it was arrogant. Just factual as well.

Then you go on to put words in my mouth. Congratulations--you have earned a place next to luckydawg.

Walk proud. Chest beating optional.


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RE: Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Report - 11/24/2010 7:58:00 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Here is a graphic showing the budget deficit, and its causes.








Allow me to point out, if I may, that the reference in the chart title to "Bush Policies" is somewhat disingenuous.

The tax cuts probably had the smallest number of Democratic 'yea' voters but all the other items involved a respectably sized herd of Democrats voting in the affirmative.

Two deregulation laws that put things in place for the eventual market meltdown were The Financial Services Modernization Act (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act) of 1999 and The Commodity Futures Modernization Act  of 2000. Both were Republican sponsored and had mostly Republican majority voters but the House vote for the CFMA had only about 9 'nay' votes and House and Senate voting otherwise had many Democrats on board, both of these measures passing easily. Oh, and signed by Clinton I believe.

All but a couple of the most well known Democrats voted for the Iraq Resolution, insuring that the only way to express displeasure of Bush's Iraq invasion was to vote for two of the 'yea' voters in the 2004 election. Thanks!

The tax cuts and the two foreign excursions can rightfully be referred to as "Bush Policies" but the the Democrats were of great help with the latter, and the recession-inducing deregulation was Republican led but non-Bush policy that, again, had much support from that notorious "anti-business" crowd.

Either way we will be paying dearly for a long time, but we are somehow supposed to find solace from it all being 95% the "other" party's fault.


Thanks!



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/24/2010 8:12:19 AM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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