Avoiding topping from the bottom (Full Version)

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enani17236 -> Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/23/2010 9:03:07 PM)

I love my Mistress/wife and would like her to take advantage of me, using me as a piece of property for her pleasure and convenience.  She always confirms to me that she wants to do it and that she likes it.  She is very big (which I like a lot), but it gives her some mobility problems (which I like to solve and help her with), but also some pain issues (which I cannot do much about...), and most likely (my assessment - not scientifically proven...) a bunch of self-esteem issues and bad experiences that inhibit her.

She is always nice and lovely to me - but I don't feel I am special, compared to her friendly ways of dealing with other people.  And I do not feel that my gift to her (my body and soul) is really accepted.

She hardly ever does anything or makes me do anything that could not be done by a good friend or a nurse...  There are weeks between her making me do oral service for her, for instance.   There was a time when she would make me take her pee in my mouth, to save her from going to the toilet.  Once in an odd month, she has asked me to bathe her.  She never does anything to control my sexual activities, except for one day a month, or so, when she puts me in chastity for a few hours.  I feel like a broken toy that is being thrown away...

My point is that I want her to take advantage of me.  I don't care how she does it or what it implies for me.  I need to feel her power.  I am not after any specific "scene".  I want the experience of being completely controlled by her, on a 24/7 basis, where "vanilla duties" are the exception to the rule of permanent slavery.

The problem is that I can spot numerous ways in which she could use me for her pleasure and/or convenience - but I fear telling her about it, because I do not want to "top from the bottom".  Besides, I have very little enjoyment of it, if I am to "supervise" it...  I have explained it so many times in general terms, even in writing (making suggestions to rules, relationship contracts, etc. - which she appreciates and agrees to!), that I fear intimidating her by continuing nagging her.

I feel I am lost - condemned to a vanilla life I don't want.

Apparently, I am not very good at ready a woman's mind.  I can't figure her out.  Are there any Dommes out there who could give me some ideas to acceptable action possibilities that won't jeopardize our relationship?

Thanks in advance for any help.

enani



Iholdthestrings -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/23/2010 10:45:58 PM)

I'd start by letting her read what you've written here.



ReginaMirus -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/23/2010 11:10:07 PM)

--fast reply--

Having a domination fetish doesn't automatically make you a submissive by default.



YSG -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/24/2010 3:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ReginaMirus

--fast reply--

Having a domination fetish doesn't automatically make you a submissive by default.

Ok, and your post is relevant and helpful... how?

OP, the only way this is going to happen is to talk to your wife about it man. I know, the spontinaeity makes it fun, but its the squeaky wheel that gets the grease my friend. I agree with Iholdthestrings, have her read what you have written here.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/24/2010 3:48:46 AM)

FR

OP, you write a lot about your desires and all that, but it seems to me that she's not really into it and you are pushing your desires on her.

Not to be mean, but a comment raised a few red flags for me:

quote:

...She is very big (which I like a lot), but it gives her some mobility problems (which I like to solve and help her with)....


I'm not saying you are, but it is a comment that I have heard from feeders quite often, since her size seems to cause her a lot of problems, shouldn't you rather try and help her with that, as it can considerably shorten her life, it already seems to take away from the quality of her life due to the mobility problem and self-esteem. But really, all I hear here is "I am not getting my kink on as much as I like..."



LadyPact -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/24/2010 5:20:42 AM)

I agree that it would be a good idea to have her read what you have written here.  There is nothing wrong with her having the information that you have provided to us.  I realize that you say that you have discussed this before, but this is a different format.  It seems to Me that you have some incompatibility in the frequency of your desires and it is fair to make her aware of that.

At the same time, if the relationship is such that she is the Dominant and you are the submissive, you need to accept the fact that the decision is hers, in her authority, and it is your place to submit.  It isn't her place to cater to your desires.  It is your place to cater to hers.  Even if that includes that she is not controlling you as often as you would like, in the way that you would like.  You mention that your wife is a very friendly, pleasant woman.  I get the feeling from your post that is her style of Domination as well.  It would be a mistake to try to make her into another kind of Dominant. 

You don't mention in your post if the one time a month that she controls you is your only sexual interaction.  If it is, I would say there is a major problem somewhere and possibly more than one.  Has her lack of sexual desire been discussed with her physician?  It's also possible that you are shooting yourself in the foot here, because if you're pressuring her about kink activities, she's going to resist, and it's going to end up happening less often.  Putting Myself in her place, I wouldn't react well if My partner was primarily interested in sexual interaction that wasn't the kind of sex that I wanted.  My sex drive would drop because I really don't like to feel like I'm being told what to do and I don't like to feel pressured.  Me wanting to engage in a certain type of sexual activity is always going to go over a lot better than someone saying it's something that I have to do.



angelikaJ -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/24/2010 5:41:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: enani17236

I love my Mistress/wife and would like her to take advantage of me, using me as a piece of property for her pleasure and convenience.  She always confirms to me that she wants to do it and that she likes it.  She is very big (which I like a lot), but it gives her some mobility problems (which I like to solve and help her with), but also some pain issues (which I cannot do much about...), and most likely (my assessment - not scientifically proven...) a bunch of self-esteem issues and bad experiences that inhibit her.

She is always nice and lovely to me - but I don't feel I am special, compared to her friendly ways of dealing with other people. And I do not feel that my gift to her (my body and soul) is really accepted.

She hardly ever does anything or makes me do anything that could not be done by a good friend or a nurse...


There are weeks between her making me do oral service for her, for instance.   There was a time when she would make me take her pee in my mouth, to save her from going to the toilet.  Once in an odd month, she has asked me to bathe her.  She never does anything to control my sexual activities, except for one day a month, or so, when she puts me in chastity for a few hours.  I feel like a broken toy that is being thrown away...

My point is that I want her to take advantage of me.  I don't care how she does it or what it implies for me.  I need to feel her power.  I am not after any specific "scene".  I want the experience of being completely controlled by her, on a 24/7 basis, where "vanilla duties" are the exception to the rule of permanent slavery.

The problem is that I can spot numerous ways in which she could use me for her pleasure and/or convenience - but I fear telling her about it, because I do not want to "top from the bottom".  Besides, I have very little enjoyment of it, if I am to "supervise" it...  I have explained it so many times in general terms, even in writing (making suggestions to rules, relationship contracts, etc. - which she appreciates and agrees to!), that I fear intimidating her by continuing nagging her.

I feel I am lost - condemned to a vanilla life I don't want.

Apparently, I am not very good at ready a woman's mind.  I can't figure her out.  Are there any Dommes out there who could give me some ideas to acceptable action possibilities that won't jeopardize our relationship?

Thanks in advance for any help.

enani




She is always nice and lovely to me - but I don't feel I am special, compared to her friendly ways of dealing with other people. And I do not feel that my gift to her (my body and soul) is really accepted.

She hardly ever does anything or makes me do anything that could not be done by a good friend or a nurse...


But is she asking a good friend or nurse to do them for her, or is she asking you to do them?
In that there is a big difference.

You are the one who is devaluing your service to her because it isn't the kind of service that you want to perform.

You are disregarding her pain and complaining that she isn't being attentive enough to your desires.

Do you know how draining pain is?

Selfish much?

"My point is that I want her to take advantage of me. I don't care how she does it or what it implies for me. I need to feel her power. I am not after any specific "scene". I want the experience of being completely controlled by her, on a 24/7 basis, where "vanilla duties" are the exception to the rule of permanent slavery."

Again, slavery is as much in your mindset as it is in what she does.
You devalue your service to her because it isn't kinky enough (which then becomes about serving you).

Perhaps if you were to truly learn to be grateful for what you have and serve her with joy you will find things will change, if not for her, then at least they will for you.

You don't have a vanilla life.
You have a life with less kink than you want.

There is a difference.



enani17236 -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/24/2010 10:49:30 PM)

Thanks for the replies.

I got everything confirmed that I already knew well.  I had hoped for some additional inspiration and possibly some ideas I could use to overcome the problems, but I think I need to word things differently in order to achieve that.  So be it.  It is not likely going to happen, as I feel it goes beyond what I am capable of, at least at the moment.

Yes, there is an obvious discrepancy in desires.  That's the whole point.  And yes, I am fully aware that one possible way is for me to accept status quo "as is" and let my desires for change vanish.  I don't need any help with that.  I can do that all by myself.  I was looking for possible ways to do better than that - to learn about things I had not thought of myself, and which could also help her.

I have no need for judgments, and I have disclosed too little about the situation for anyone to make any of those anyway, and it does not count for me how someone else would evaluate my situation.  I am no novice when it comes to dealing with chronic pain, but I also know that, in that situation, it is more important than ever to cultivate whatever pleasure can be achieved.  Rolling over and surrendering to even the biggest challenges as "impossible to overcome" is not my first choice, and maybe there is a problem in that for someone else.

My dilemma is quite well expressed by LadyPact - that concern was a (not explicitly disclosed) main point in making the post, avoiding doing mistakes that were obvious for someone else.  I appreciate that constructive input.  But my personal assessment is that my mistress is holding back primarily because of concerns that are ill founded, such as trying to avoid inconveniencing me...  It is not a matter of "more or less kink".  It is a matter of giving her the best possible life I can, including getting her to quit being so concerned for me when it stops her from getting the most out of the situation!

BTW, I am not a feeder - I simply like her as she is, and I am doing more than what anyone else ever has done in regards to getting her health in as good a condition as we can (and now much better than it ever has been before).  Those who believe that weight loss is a simple thing to accomplish by just eating less can save their ammo for some other target.  (I know, that's not what LadyConstanze expressed in her kind comments - I am just jumping the gun here, for the purpose of prevention.  I have been there, done that - way too often...)

Of course, I need to talk to her about it!  I just wanted to be as well prepared as possible, using ideas also from others.

We can rest the topic -  thanks again for the input.

enani



LadyConstanze -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/26/2010 4:29:33 AM)

I wasn't calling you a feeder but your comments sounded a lot like comments I have heard from them and since I don't know your situation, I can only go from what you write.

But a woman who isn't happy will have less desire to engage in any sort of play, of course there are exceptions but when I feel depressed, then any sort of BDSM play is not at the forefront of my mind, so my idea was to address the root of the problem, but if you say it can't be done, you are in a bind.

Have you thought that with her being helpless, if she does command you to do things, it will actually will remind her more of being helpless, so it's a catch 22.



enani17236 -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/26/2010 10:14:21 PM)

LadyConstanze - oh no, I wasn't misreading what you posted - I have just been out in those discussions about fat and weight loss so often and to so little avail, because very few people, doctors included, have any clue what is involved.   I just wanted prevent getting out into that mud again.  Sure, I am very attracted to fat women - but I am much more attracted to a woman who truly wants to control me and use me...

Yes, I feel that Catch-22.  Very much so.  That's why I posted, in order to possibly get some ideas and suggestions to solutions, particularly from other strong-minded women, so I could better understand what I CAN do about it.

I hear you - being depressed about the loss of mobility does not promote desire for pleasure - and referring my services to be called on out of necessity can carry more wood to the fire of that  depression.  It bites itself in the tail, no matter how it gets turned around.

That's exactly what I see as the core of the problem.

enani



LadyPact -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/27/2010 2:49:54 AM)

Part of the issue is that it's hard to know what the core of the problem really lies.  What you have here is rather complex and without knowing how she really feels, the best we can do is make an educated guess.  If her size is a contributing factor to some physical issues, it's also quite possible that it's got emotional factors as well.

What may be happening here could be very much related to her self-esteem.  From what you're saying, you come across as very supportive and liking the way she looks, which is positive.  The thing is, you can't base self-esteem on an outside source.  I know this is really hard for men to understand, but I can promise this is how it works.  You could be telling her how much you like the way she looks a hundred times a day, but if she doesn't feel beautiful, her inner voice about her appearance is going to win.  (If it helps any, this is something that drives My own husband nuts, and probably something that other males from the boards could tell you their own experiences about when dealing with the women in their lives.)  That's going to effect everything else.  Her confidence and sex drive just aren't going to be where she'll be coming from a good place to want to dominate you.

I don't know her and I don't know you, but there's something else that is one of the possibilities when this subject comes up.  The times that she is dominating you may have more to do with her trying to please you than from her own drive and desire to dominate.  This isn't something you can base on what she's told you or how much she's enjoyed things you've done in the past.  Service tops can have a very good time engaging in play, but it doesn't come from the same place as domination in it's own right.  It's something that you may have to consider.



enani17236 -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/27/2010 5:37:46 PM)

LadyPact - I am afraid you hit some important issues here...

She has been big all her life - as teenager, her dad hated her because she was fat, and he refused to buy her clothes, shoes, and other necessities just because of that.

I know this leaves a mark on a person, when every single man she meets after that, all health care professionals, and just about all other people, family and friends included, have an issues with her weight.  She was almost 50 when we met, and I know I am the first person in her life who has not criticized her for being fat, but outright enjoyed it.  But that's 4 years against 50...  I stand no chance against all that subliminal indoctrination - I know.  She has to believe in it herself, for start - and I am not completely certain that this is the case yet.

Although she assumes the attitude that people just have to "accept her as she is", I also know that she silently tries to "please the general public" in her appearance, as much as she can.  She spends a lot of time preparing herself for going out, using cosmetics, dressing nicely, looking good - which I find a terrible waste of time, but as long as I don't notice that she is wearing make-up (which I really don't like), then I am not complaining.  And she will suffer great pains in order to avoid inconveniencing strangers because of her weight!  This all indicates that there could be substance in what you said!

When it comes to people in the family, including her adult children, our younger nieces, etc., then she is actually brutally dominant and always the natural power center for everybody to respect!  I was wrong in assuming that, from there to taking control also of me, would be only a small leap...

I feel it is almost the opposite with me - that she wants to do what she can to please me, and that she is afraid of pushing me away by taking me for granted!  Now, during "vanilla time", I don't have a problem with that, as I classify it as courtesy and fundamental appreciation of what I do for her, also in public, although I am not completely sure it is a wise thing to do.  I am a very assertive businessman in my official life, so I can play that game well, and with no problems for myself, even though it would be my preference to not do it.  But in private - it is just wrong for me.  I think I could be OK with a sub/slave for me to take care of - but I cannot get my mind around the thought of dominating her, or even being her equal...  I know she enjoys power and she enjoys using it, and it gives me a very deep satisfaction inside to feel her thrill from that.  I want to cultivate that and give her a life of fulfillment, enjoying her unlimited control of me.  But somehow, I must be hitting the wrong buttons for her, since she is so reluctant to do it with me.

Or maybe is really has nothing to do with me, but it is all rooted in herself!?

I understand what you say about wanting to dominate.  Her sex drive is generally not bad - on days in the past with relatively little pain, 4-6 orgasms per day did not quench that fire - and I was thrilled because I knew she was having a good time!  But once a month is indicating that something is wrong...

Yes, when my depression gets too obvious for her, then she will take some action, chain me up, and play with my body.  Although I want to give in and enjoy it, it isn't quite right when I feel she is doing it for me, and not so much for her own amusement.  I still want to appreciate it, though.  But I need to feel her power on a 24/7 basis, not just for a couple of hours every other weekend.  With "a 24/7 basis", I mean that we can allow room for "vanilla stuff", like work and other interaction with the public, but the BASIS is her supremacy - that's what everything else should evolve around, start from, and return to.  That's my dream, and that's also what she has expressed as being her dream - so it should be easy, right?

Although I think I understand the situation a bit better, I am just still baffled as to what kind of action I can take - it is nice to know what not to do - it can prevent mistakes, but it does not solve the main problem, as I fear I might have to face it: SOMETHING blocks her from pushing the issues beyond the occasional play - and neither of us are thriving on it.

Anyway, I appreciate the input.

enani



LadyPact -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/28/2010 7:19:58 AM)

As I said in My other post, the best that I can do is guess here, but I'm inclined to think that it does have to do with her, rather than things you can do.  What you have written in your latest entry has Me wondering if she is more of a service top when things do happen that you want.  You're describing a reactionary scenario, rather than one that she is doing because it's what she wants.  You even mention that play only gets initiated when she notices that you're getting depressed because of the lack of it.  By the way, that's not a good thing either because it may be stemming from her guilt that she's not meeting your needs.  That's one of the worst cycles to get stuck in because she's not going to associate power with it.  Again, that's her pleasing you, rather than being inspired to please herself.

A person's sex drive isn't about the number of orgasms that they have during sex as much as the frequency that they want to have sex.  With the added information that you've provided, I have to wonder if even the one time a month is because she actually wants to have sex or if it comes from her seeing the situation and knowing that she has to have sex or kink to keep you happy.  If she's feeling pressured, it's not going to be anything but counter-productive.  Putting Myself in her shoes, it's probably making matters worse.

I'm inclined to say that the best thing you can do is speak with her and ask if she is willing to seek some medical attention to resolve any physical issues that may be lowering her sex drive.  In addition, she has a long history of weight issues that probably have some emotional impact.  Those need to be fixed before you can even have an idea if she really wants anything that's related to kink.  From what I'm hearing here, it doesn't come across to Me that it's really what she wants. 



SthrnCom4t -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/28/2010 8:08:40 AM)

Many times what people want, and what they know how to accomplish are two different things. If there are self esteem issues at stake, there are many good sources which I'm happy to discuss privately.

OP, I took from your post that she is not stern enough, often enough for you, because she is a genuine and caring person. Along with self esteem can be fear of abandonment, and disbelief that "I" deserve to be loved.

From my perspective, and to add to what LP has already stated, I believe going the route of healing the mind is the way to proceed. Additionally, and having nothing to do with 'weight loss' per se, specific nutrition is key to what brain chemistry is being generated. For instance, if I eat a lot of carbs or sweets, I feel lethargic or apathetic. Apathy does not equal sex drive.

I'm happy to correspond offline. We've been learning a great deal about nutrition and the mind-body connection recently, and I can see how they are directly influential.

Thank you for the post and your articulate responses.



lovingpet -> RE: Avoiding topping from the bottom (11/28/2010 10:23:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: enani17236

Although I want to give in and enjoy it, it isn't quite right when I feel she is doing it for me, and not so much for her own amusement.  I still want to appreciate it, though. 



Here's another way to look at this.  If she wants to do something for you, then who are you to argue with that?  She is not only in control of what she does with you, but WHY she does it.  It isn't your place to say what her motivation should be.  Sometimes it will be all about her.  Sometimes it will be all about you.  The best times, though, will be when it is a mutually fulfilling exchange.  Regardless of which you get, your job is to submit.  Does that make sense?

Looking over all of this, I think your intentions are good and that there was a bit of a gut reaction initially that was a little unfair.  My guess you are fairly new and just trying to figure things out.  Well, join the club because, as far as I am concerned, that is where I am too.  I don't always "get it" and don't even realize when I am pushing or doing things with the wrong mindset or intent.

I think you are devaluing your service and I do think it is partly because you are not serving in the ways that YOU want.  I think you do have to accept and see the value in the service that she DOES desire.  I think the reason you want to serve in other ways is because they have a certain value to you.  It means a lot to you to meet particular needs of hers and I agree that she should honor that.  That's not topping from the bottom.  That's fulfilling her slave's needs.  It doesn't mean, however, that she will attach the same value to those same things you do and you have to once again submit to HER valuing system and understand that, in those instances, the "service" she accepts from you is actually all about you.  You also have to accept that she prizes other services that you find mundane and unimportant.   They are important to her.  Isn't that enough?

We all go into relationship and dynamics with some degree of differing needs.  We also go in with some degree of differing desires.  Good relationships overcome this and find the compromises and sacrifices that allow things to succeed and grow.  Bad relationships involve at least one person who cannot bend.  Don't be the one who can't bend.

Speaking as a fluffy gal myself, I understand it if she would be afraid of driving you away.  Think about what you said about her childhood and the majority of the people around her.  You have been the only one who has accepted her and even adored her as is.  She knows she can't find that every day.  She probably feels damn lucky to have found it once and even has trouble believing it's for real.  Add to that, she probably doesn't win many friends with her tendency toward dominance with others and may not understand that you relate to that part of her differently.  Most people resent it.  YOU love it.  Take it as a compliment that she doesn't want to run you off.  She may need a lot of work on her long trampled self esteem to realize that you love every part of her including the parts everyone else has rejected.

All my best, and I really do think you want to do right by her.  You also are wise enough to recognize your own needs as well.  It's hard to sort all of this stuff out.  I wish you the best and feel free to message me on the flip side. 

lovingpet



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