More Sharing... (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> More Sharing... (11/25/2010 11:39:17 AM)

No... this isn't about the stereotypical dominant wanting to bring in another submissive.  Rather, how would you as a dominant feel if your submissive requested a second dominant?  Or a submissive of their own?

This question stems from a comment I posted in a thread in "Ask A Submissive".  While musing about what I would do if Firm decided to move our monogamous relationship to one where we "swing", I wrote that I would probably question why he would want to change the terms of our relationship.  Most likely, I wouldn't be able to keep from thinking that in some way I wasn't meeting his needs, and that would bother me greatly.

It also made me think about and post the following:

"Interestingly enough, Firm has always said that I should have a male submissive.  I'm not entirely certain that wasn't just in jest... or he may just be supremely confident that I would never want to be involved in any way with another man.  Perhaps he believes I'd only be interested in a service sub..."

It brought to mind a question about what he would think if I actually took him up on that offer.  Of course, I wondered then if other dominants who would easily share their submissives for their own pleasure, would be just as willing to share when it wasn't to meet their own desires.  Would it raise questions in mind as to whether there was a deficiency within your dynamic that made your submissive want to supplement his or her life with someone else?



DarkSteven -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 11:55:04 AM)

Happened to me.  My sub wanted to try being topped by another Dom.  She ended up with him.

If she wanted to bring in a female sub, no problem.  If she wanted to bring in another man, sub or Dom, the answer will be No.



AquaticSub -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 12:55:48 PM)

~Fast Reply~

Since Val doesn't really get on the forums...

I have had another male dominant. Things didn't work for reasons complicated unrelated to the fact that I had two male dominants in my life. It was more that the other man didn't have time for two women. He and Valyraen got along well - he usually does with any potential partners I bring home to meet. They play video games, tease me about my sexual preferences, etc. I truly don't know if I could handle being with someone who got jealous about me being involved with other men. And for him it works out very nicely as he is much more a homebody than me.

We truly do not regard my wanting to be involved with another dominant male as any sign of a deficiency. To even suggest that is simply... beyond us. I'm poly. I'm only attracted to dominant men just as he is only attracted to submissive women.

It's really as simple as that.



LanceHughes -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 1:00:23 PM)

The Biblical prohibition applies for the two dominant question - One can't serve two Masters.  Exception for WIITWD - limited play with both D-types at once.  Day-um.... that is fun 'cause when I've done just that (and not only at the S-type's request <EG>) my Co-topper <gender not specified!!> and I have been inspired by the other.   Limited play off the to side - sure - certain rules apply... oh, yeah.... just like a child asking to stay over at Xis friend's house. . . . . . I would have to meet the parent first and have a little discussion.  Ask DaddysRedHead how she handles her kids' friends when those friends visit her house.  DRH lays down the law way early and is one the most respect parents in her circle.

Adding a submissive to my submissive's duties is very similar to a child asking for a puppy, Y'think?  Same considerations apply.  "Daddy" or "Mommy" must consider and negotiate and decide who is responsible for training, food, exercising, shelter, etc.

Puppies can teach children maturity and many other life skills and character traits.  Of course, this is where the analogy breaks down, LOL!



leadership527 -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 2:07:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
This question stems from a comment I posted in a thread in "Ask A Submissive".  While musing about what I would do if Firm decided to move our monogamous relationship to one where we "swing", I wrote that I would probably question why he would want to change the terms of our relationship.  Most likely, I wouldn't be able to keep from thinking that in some way I wasn't meeting his needs, and that would bother me greatly.
Carol had those thoughts also... along with a ton of other entirely predictable thoughts. I changed them. Within our marriage, thoughts which are counter-productive to happiness get rooted out.

quote:

"Interestingly enough, Firm has always said that I should have a male submissive.  I'm not entirely certain that wasn't just in jest... or he may just be supremely confident that I would never want to be involved in any way with another man.  Perhaps he believes I'd only be interested in a service sub..." It brought to mind a question about what he would think if I actually took him up on that offer.
OK, I only know Firm third-hand via snippets from you. That being said, NOTHING you've written conveys the impression that he is a frivolous man. Given that, I would assume that what he'd think would be something along the lines of, "OK, this is a bit scary but thank god she finally took that bull by the horns... this'll be good for her and us." That, at least, is what I'd be thinking if I had been saying such a thing to Carol over a period of time (more than just a one-off joke).

quote:

Of course, I wondered then if other dominants who would easily share their submissives for their own pleasure, would be just as willing to share when it wasn't to meet their own desires.  Would it raise questions in mind as to whether there was a deficiency within your dynamic that made your submissive want to supplement his or her life with someone else?
Both Carol and I are subordinate to the needs of "us". Honestly, she gets a LOT more leeway than I do when the command from the "us" comes down... exactly as you'd expect for a strong and disciplined man. The kind of internal rewiring you're talking about she got a few months to make. For me it'd be "Suck it up Jeff."

If Carol brought this to me, I'd want to check her work and validate it really was good for us. There's a fair chance that it would be if she really did propose it. I would then take it upon myself to make it happen including any and all required changes to me, her, or us. Even if that change required that I not only accept another master for her, but another lover for both her and I and that lover was male. My expectation of myself in that situation would be to learn how to enjoy having sex with men. I don't tolerate excuses in my marriage. I tolerate them even less in myself. NOTHING is even remotely close to "my marriage" on my priority scale. Things which are good for my marriage are good for me... period.



Focus50 -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 4:31:09 PM)

I don't share and I don't compete. If my sub wants to "try" another dom, she's basically telling me she wants to end our relationship. Because my answer will be "fine - go!"

As for *her* wanting to introduce another sub, that's more complex and would greatly depend on the reasons. If she had a personal need I couldn't fulfill (switch or bi, for eg), then yeah, I'd consider it. My own needs require just the one sub, albeit the *right* sub....

Focus.



tazzygirl -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 5:24:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I don't compete.


This has always been my stance. I wont compete with anyone for affection, time, effort or energy. If im not enough on my own, then i am not enough and he should look for a woman who is and allow me to find a man who believes i am what he seeks.



TreasureKY -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 6:56:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If she wanted to bring in a female sub, no problem.  If she wanted to bring in another man, sub or Dom, the answer will be No.


Given what you'd experienced, I'm not surprised to hear this. 

To be honest, I've always likened the idea of playing with others while in a committed relationship to be somewhat akin to playing with fire.  You have to be willing to be burned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

We truly do not regard my wanting to be involved with another dominant male as any sign of a deficiency. To even suggest that is simply... beyond us. I'm poly. I'm only attracted to dominant men just as he is only attracted to submissive women.


I suppose because I'm not poly or even poly-minded, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of bringing others into our relationship.  I'm guessing that the chances for problems is greatly reduced when both partners are truly open to it... and that is what it sounds like for you and Val.  [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

The Biblical prohibition applies for the two dominant question - One can't serve two Masters.  Exception for WIITWD - limited play with both D-types at once. 

... Limited play off the to side - sure - certain rules apply...


That makes sense for a relationship with more play involved.  But as I'm more relationship/sex oriented, I'm not certain what practical limitations could be placed if I were to want to be involved with another dominant or submissive.  For me, there would always be an emotional attachment.

If you have a submissive whose relationship to you was more an emotional attachment and who'd had always expressed a desire to remain monogamous, would it make you question a sudden request to start being involved with others?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I don't share and I don't compete. If my sub wants to "try" another dom, she's basically telling me she wants to end our relationship. Because my answer will be "fine - go!"


I'd see it the same way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

As for *her* wanting to introduce another sub, that's more complex and would greatly depend on the reasons. If she had a personal need I couldn't fulfill (switch or bi, for eg), then yeah, I'd consider it.


You mention switch as a possibility.  I find that confusing as wouldn't that allow that the switch might also want to occasionally dominate?  Would that be a limitation you'd impose... that he must only be submissive?

What if your submissive's personal need was one that you try to fulfill but fall short... for example you aren't able to meet her sexual appetite?  Not suggesting that could ever happen... [;)] ... but would that affect your decision?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I don't compete.


This has always been my stance. I wont compete with anyone for affection, time, effort or energy. If im not enough on my own, then i am not enough and he should look for a woman who is and allow me to find a man who believes i am what he seeks.


Being monogamous, this greatly resembles my own feelings.  It isn't that I feel I'm incapable of loving more than one person at a time, but to be submissive to me means that I'm devoted and undivided in my service.  I just can't do that with more than one man at a time.



xXsoumisXx -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 7:32:16 PM)

I am monogamous. I cannot give every inch of myself, mind, body, soul, to Someone, and yet just be one of many. or even just one of 3... i tend to shut down and lose my ability to feel submissive. In fact, lose my ability to feel much of anything. beleive me, I have been to hell and back on this issue.. and i am not totally back from that hell..

However.....;) I am not opposed to a 3 some now and again if it was really sooooo important to the Other...I have often thought that those of us who are collared submissives with all these Doms who want a 3-some, we should just help each other out, it would be easier to play with someone belonging to another, at least for me, i would feel less threatened.

Oddly, i would find it much easier to be shared, than to share Him, as I know it would be something i was doing for Him. it would be just another form of pleasing Him. And i really like to please Him. I really like knowing that what i am doing is a huge turn on for Him.



TreasureKY -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 7:43:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
This question stems from a comment I posted in a thread in "Ask A Submissive".  While musing about what I would do if Firm decided to move our monogamous relationship to one where we "swing", I wrote that I would probably question why he would want to change the terms of our relationship.  Most likely, I wouldn't be able to keep from thinking that in some way I wasn't meeting his needs, and that would bother me greatly.


Carol had those thoughts also... along with a ton of other entirely predictable thoughts. I changed them. Within our marriage, thoughts which are counter-productive to happiness get rooted out.


I'm not sure I'd be as impressionable.  While Firm and I agree on most everything, there are a few areas where no amount of discussion can bring accord.  Outside of intellectually convincing me to change my mind, any demand for me to alter my thoughts would be met with much laughter.  Thankfully our differences are so minor as to be inconsequential.  [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
"Interestingly enough, Firm has always said that I should have a male submissive.  I'm not entirely certain that wasn't just in jest... or he may just be supremely confident that I would never want to be involved in any way with another man.  Perhaps he believes I'd only be interested in a service sub..." It brought to mind a question about what he would think if I actually took him up on that offer.


OK, I only know Firm third-hand via snippets from you. That being said, NOTHING you've written conveys the impression that he is a frivolous man. Given that, I would assume that what he'd think would be something along the lines of, "OK, this is a bit scary but thank god she finally took that bull by the horns... this'll be good for her and us." That, at least, is what I'd be thinking if I had been saying such a thing to Carol over a period of time (more than just a one-off joke).


You are correct in that Firm isn't generally frivolous... however he's anything but stoic.  Turns out his comments have been "half-joking".  Though I suspect he knows I'd never take him up on the idea, he has clarified what he would be willing to consider.

1)  No dominant.  End of story.
2)  Service submissive only.  Gender doesn't matter as it would be service only.

Actually, I find that rather comforting.  He may not have meant it that way, but I take this as he's not willing to risk losing me to any competition.  I'm pretty darn possessive in my own fashion, too.  [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
Of course, I wondered then if other dominants who would easily share their submissives for their own pleasure, would be just as willing to share when it wasn't to meet their own desires.  Would it raise questions in mind as to whether there was a deficiency within your dynamic that made your submissive want to supplement his or her life with someone else?


Both Carol and I are subordinate to the needs of "us". Honestly, she gets a LOT more leeway than I do when the command from the "us" comes down... exactly as you'd expect for a strong and disciplined man. The kind of internal rewiring you're talking about she got a few months to make. For me it'd be "Suck it up Jeff."


In the same way, Firm and I give our relationship priority.  But I'm not sure I'd consider a request like that to be one for the good of the relationship, even if it was good for me personally.  I'm not even certain that anything that required me to make that kind of internal adjustment... whether or not I had time... would be beneficial in the long run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

If Carol brought this to me, I'd want to check her work and validate it really was good for us. There's a fair chance that it would be if she really did propose it. I would then take it upon myself to make it happen including any and all required changes to me, her, or us. Even if that change required that I not only accept another master for her, but another lover for both her and I and that lover was male. My expectation of myself in that situation would be to learn how to enjoy having sex with men. I don't tolerate excuses in my marriage. I tolerate them even less in myself. NOTHING is even remotely close to "my marriage" on my priority scale. Things which are good for my marriage are good for me... period.


You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.  [;)] 

I can't say that I agree with the idea that one can learn to enjoy something so foreign to one's nature.  I'd also have a hard time with the concept that simply feeling how you feel is somehow making an excuse.  However... it's an interesting premise to consider.

Edited to fix the friggin quotes.



xXsoumisXx -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 9:04:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I don't compete.


This has always been my stance. I wont compete with anyone for affection, time, effort or energy. If im not enough on my own, then i am not enough and he should look for a woman who is and allow me to find a man who believes i am what he seeks.



Exactly.



Nineveh -> RE: More Sharing... (11/25/2010 10:45:38 PM)

I know that I'd be more comfortable with a sub of mine having a sub of her own than sharing her with another Dom.  Doesn't mean I couldn't or wouldn't do it, especcially if it was someone I knew well and trusted.  I would also like to share one with my wife (a bit of a different approach than the OP, but whatever) I don't think that is likely to ever happen but it is sort of the ideal situation in my mind.  I know that the thought of Dominating someone who dominates someone else is very exciting, which is why her having a sub of her own is kind of exciting to me.



Focus50 -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 12:57:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

As for *her* wanting to introduce another sub, that's more complex and would greatly depend on the reasons. If she had a personal need I couldn't fulfill (switch or bi, for eg), then yeah, I'd consider it.


You mention switch as a possibility.  I find that confusing as wouldn't that allow that the switch might also want to occasionally dominate?  Would that be a limitation you'd impose... that he must only be submissive?

What if your submissive's personal need was one that you try to fulfill but fall short... for example you aren't able to meet her sexual appetite?  Not suggesting that could ever happen... [;)] ... but would that affect your decision?


Switch as in if *my* girl had a need to switch.... So yeah, I'd consider letting her find a sub (m or f) of her own but not another switch. And if a male sub, I'd allow her to do whatever to him but he doesn't touch her sexually/intimately.

As for sexual appetite issues, if I couldn't meet such needs then that'd bring compatability into question because, again, no-one touches my girl sexually/intimately. No male, anyway, in case we get back to an issue of bi.... And no dom/me - ever!

This is why I hate hypotheticals - you never really know until it actually happens to you.

Focus.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 4:18:53 AM)

Just in general: I am open to discussion on this sort of thing. My slave's needs and desires are at least as important as my own.



DesFIP -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 6:29:00 AM)

I don't compete. If he needs two women, then he'd be looking for two women, not one more. Because this wouldn't work for me. It would damage the relationship irreparably.

As far as me wanting another dominant? If it was to learn a skill then yes I can go outside, nonsexually. I could take a class with a dominant. One on one, no way. But I don't view other men as sexually attractive while in a happy relationship.

Me have a male submissive? It's a nice fantasy. He'd probably request one who is good at auto repairs which would give him a break. I'd like one who would garden and cut wood. But I couldn't give a male sub what he needs and I wouldn't get into a relationship where I already know it will fail miserably. I'm not dominant and it would be unfair to take advantage of a male sub's needs while not being able to either top or dominate him.



KnightofMists -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 8:42:25 AM)

I am rather strongly of the opinion that a slave can't serve two Masters... Unless... there is strong compatiability between the Masters themselves in exercising authority over the slave.

Secondly, for me, there is really no room that I another Master can have within the dynamic I have with my girls. That is not to say that there hasn't or can't be moments where someone joins us for specific scenes that I and the girls find pleasing.

I have no problem renting my girls out for the right pleasurable payment... but do not sell part of my ownership of them and never will.

I think it to be rather arrogant and selfish of me to believe that I can fullfill all the needs and wants that my girls may have. Clearly, I fill the vast majority... but alittle dessert is nice after a fine meal. One just shouldn't try to get all the needs fulfilled from their desserts.. and sometimes what we want is not always what we should have. To much dessert can leave a person rather unhealthy. I guess it's a question of balance.... We have that balance in our lives. Great main course... and every now again and again... alittle dessert!



leadership527 -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 1:02:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.  [;)] 

Well sheez, as I sit here leering at your photo, I sure hope I'm a better man than you. To be fair, you make a better woman than I do so it kind of evens out ~laughs~

On a more serious note, this doesn't have to do with who's "good". It has to do with flexibility and priorities. All my life I've valued generalists over specialists so this isn't really out of keeping for me. I expect myself to succeed at life... however and whatever that means. I expect myself to be sufficiently adaptable to make that happen. The statement that so many doms here make "I am only a dom and could never be anything else" to me would be a lot like cutting off 3 out of 4 limbs and trying to get through life.

quote:

I can't say that I agree with the idea that one can learn to enjoy something so foreign to one's nature.

You may agree or not as you see fit. I wasn't asking you to agree with an idea. I was making a factual statement which you may believe or not. I wasn't talking about "one"... I was talking about ME. And I think I'm a pretty authoritative expert on me and what I'm able and willing to do. I also have a pretty good read on Carol. I'm not 100% sure that such a thing would be successful for either of us. It's a fairly large bit of internal rewiring. But I absolutely would try (in either of us) and I'd expect to succeed (with contingency plans for failure). And I would have ZERO tolerance for either Carol or I failing to even try.

quote:

I'd also have a hard time with the concept that simply feeling how you feel is somehow making an excuse.  However... it's an interesting premise to consider.

Let me put a slightly different spin on that. The way I look at it, I have married Carol and I specifically committed to her to do my absolute best to enable her to be the best and most complete "Carol" that she could be. I didn't put any limitations on that statement then and I would not, in hindsight, put any on it now. As far as I'm concerned, if Carol has a need, then it must be provided for. *I* am the one who committed to doing that. And even aside from the commitment, I'm the guy who loves her. If not me, then who? Honestly, the same thing is true for her "wants" too although obviously there's less pressure on me the less important it becomes to her. But the way I look at it is that a million times a day I have an opportunity to either provide for her and strengthen our marriage or fail to provide for her and weaken it. I'm pretty acutely aware of those choices and I very, very, very much do not like to pick the one which weakens our marriage.

While I'm at it, I have to say that I just love the "It's the way I'm wired" line of reasoning. That whole thing is such an incredibly elegant cop-out... as if free will didn't exist at all and humans were nothing more than a bundle of unreasoning instincts. There are SOME things about me that cannot be changed... but those things are very, very core. Anything visible on the first dozen outside layers of me is certainly changeable. For instance, it's probably true that even if I did have a male, dom, lover in conjunction with Carol that if they both died so I had to find a new partner, it'd be a female. THAT is my base wiring. I am certainly able to extend love, pleasure, and interest though in much more broad ways than "how I am wired". It's no different than me saying that I cannot ever change the fact that I look at the entire world from a dominant viewpoint. But what I can do is submit and I can enjoy doing so. I'd just be submitting from a dominant viewpoint.... domming myself... which is actually what a lot of subs here do also near as I can tell.

Putting this really bluntly, people say lots of things about their relationships. What I have said is that Carol is the most important thing in the world to me... more important than myself by far. This is just one of the ways that the truth of that statement shows up. I try not to make a mockery of my love affair... it's too important to me. Whether other people can or will prioritize in this manner is of no concern to me. But it IS what I have said many times here and it is the truth for me.



porcelaine -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 1:45:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I am rather strongly of the opinion that a slave can't serve two Masters... Unless... there is strong compatiability between the Masters themselves in exercising authority over the slave.


Greetings KnightofMists,

I wonder if you've been peeking in my head. I echoed the same sentiments last night and the day before. As for your comment, I believe it depends on ones definition of service and if the secondary party has equal stature in their eyes. In my opinion any activities that are done at the behest of the Keeper are a service to and for Him. While the other person may benefit the action is by way of the Overseer. The feelings that stem from and exhibit themselves during and after its inception are a manifestation of Him and the impact He has on me.

There's a line in the Bhavagad Gita that illustrates my thoughts quite succinctly. It states, "Whatever path men travel is my path; No matter where they walk it leads to Me."

Namaste,

~porcelaine



SpiritedRadiance -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 5:38:00 PM)

I believe a slave can serve two masters just as easily as a master can own two slaves. To say one can but one cant is saying that slaves aren't as capable as human beings as masters are...... which is utter and complete bullshit.....

If a master can have more then one partner successfully, why is it such a foreign concept that a slave cannot handle the same. It screams to me of the "well im a MASTER of COURSE i can do more then a silly slave" but that's neither here nor there.

I have successfully served two masters at once, actually it was 4. Working full time and doing everything my boss demanded, going to school full time doing everything my boss demanded, appeasing my family in every way they saw fit, and my dominant partner. I handled it very well and with relative ease.

If I had a partner and wished to have a sub I would hope he would shoot it down and order me a brain scan for my head.... seeing as i stress monogamy above all else.



Aynne88 -> RE: More Sharing... (11/26/2010 6:19:34 PM)

John finds it amusing when I toy with other men. He says and I quote "I don't have any issue whatsoever with you having a boytoy to do your bidding as long as it isn't sexual." So, I guess that like most men he does not want me to be involved with anyone that sexually "charges" me, but he doesn't really mind the idea of me having a male friend that leans on the non-sexual submissive side.

I am still searching...[;)].



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