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Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 7:42:59 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I knew it could happen this way and it just tried. The idea was to find out how to read the wear indicators on lower ball joints of a 1995 GMC Jimmy. I just needed to see the thing, so I went to Google image search.

Clicked on something and this window pops up, scan time for some sort of antivirus. The scan was completed way too fast. Found seventy something trojans, a bunch of virii and all this, SUPPOSEDLY.

Now get this, it was a redirect on IE. How can I tell ? And how can I tell it was fishy ?

It said microsoft on it, but I know that doesn't mean shit. The window appeared in Windows XP style. This PC is set to classic style, and at the top bar the "second color" is black. That bar is darker on the right. Not in this window. Also, when you hover on the X in an explorer window the OS pops up with a mini label that says close. It looks like what you get when there is an "alt" tag attached to an image in a webpage. It was not there.

Clicking on said X at the upper corner did not close the window, it invoked a download. Luckily I don't let anything happen automatically, so a window (sporting my chosen style and color scheme) pops up and asks if I want to run or save the program. I hit cancel. The window remained.

I closed it from the taskbar, a technique I like to call "slamming the window on it". Right click>close. IE closed.

I am positively sure that this is no software installed on this machine. I am also almost positive that there could not be virii or spyware en masse because this thing was just reloaded last week ! I've only been here and to a couple of other sites, places I go all the time.

I believe that whatever site it was wanted to infect me while appearing to protect me.

Change your color scheme. Watch for shit like this. Almost any fuckin program uses your default color and style settings. Unless of course it wants to remain undiscovered.  That was not a regular window. That was an IE window with commands in it to hide the entire frame, all buttons and everything and was also a link to the file, undoubtedley an EXE. Letting something like that run can disabnle your AV software and install it's own virus, or whatever.

No AV software can be exhaustive, and this I see as a rehash of older techniques, but it showed up in XP default style and color scheme. That was my first hint.

Next time something like this happens I will make an attempt to save the source. Problem is, IE is the default viewer for JPGs, so it might come up as a JPG or JPEG. If HTML, I can view source. That's alot easier in IE 6 which is why I keep it. If it happens again I'll try to refind the same thing and force it to open in a new window. Might work. But since IE is presently the default JPG viewer I don't know. Sometimes the only way to know for sure is to open the source code in notepad or wordpad. Word'll do it, but you can't count on editing it.

Also I can try clicking it and cutting off the internet during the download. A window might pop up "Cannot connect with http://________".

Just count this as a reminder to be familiar with youtr PC, there is no AV software good enough. AVG is good, but still things could happen. Customize your settings. Know if things have been changed. Set your own homepage manually, I use Google. I KNOW that no program on my PC looked like that. And if the IE icon doesn't take me to Google, I know something happened. (details available, with the icon IE6 can do about everything the newer version can)

Sorry I didn't note the URL, but it doesn't matter. If this is bad shit for your machine it could be anywhere. The shit is certainly profilic.

T
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 7:55:14 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or



I've seen this kind of thing frequently.  It's not scanning your machine, it's only 'pretending to scan it'.  Anything else that's scanned my computer from the web has generated a warning about a need to download some program in order for the scan to take place. 

Like you, I've tried clicking the X to close the scan request - and the 'scan' has gone ahead regardless. It always finds billions of trojans.  It's just another webpage, so I do Ctrl+ Alt +Delete, call up Task Manager, and close my web browser.  There's never been a trace of any scumware on my computer afterwards.

The trick is to get you to buy the 'antivirus' software they're offering.  I've read that people have done this, been charged a whole range of different prices, installed the software, and found that scanning with it either finds nothing at all or it gives false positives.  Some people have asked for their money back - with no luck whatsoever.  My Dad nearly got bamboozled this way - luckily, though, he's got used to phoning me about anything suspicious on his computer. 

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 8:07:16 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings Termyn8or....

There is always the old standby. Just use a Mac and every pc/windoze box that pops up you can be certain is either an ad or malware trying to infect you. It can't, but that is a different story. It auto-fails even if you try to let it infect you. Quite a pleasant feeling actually. <grins>

Be well....

Malkinius


_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com    The goal is community.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 10:03:06 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"It's not scanning your machine, it's only 'pretending to scan it'"

ZZACTLY. Like I said this thing was just reloaded. I did just a bit of the old style HTML, and about the time I got out of it was when this "hide" everything came in. You can't move it or resize it or anything, nor close it because anywhere you click on it invokes the link. Hope to your deity you have your basic security set right.

Eventually I'll have to give up my comfy old browser, But really I would hope they pry my cold dead fingers off of it. It works.

Actually I wouldn't mind if I could just refuse browser version info to be sent. This is XP MCE and it's built on Pro. I'd bet that option is in XP Corp, but just not on this box. Although really I haven't looked for it.

T

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 10:12:38 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"There is always the old standby. Just use a Mac "

Can't seem to get into it. Where is the other moose button ?

Really it would take a long time before I could manipulate a Mac system the way I can "do" Windows. I got Linux, and don't run it for the same reason.

But these people with their shit on the net, they better get up pretty early in the morning to fool some people. I have a basic tenet here - DO NOT LET ANYTHING HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY. Nothing.

Make it so it has to ask you for each and every update, whatever. and then get ready to hit the "No" button. No is the most important word.

I'm just not willing to play their game.

T

(in reply to Malkinius)
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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 10:23:28 PM   
MrCyanide


Posts: 39
Joined: 11/2/2010
Status: offline 		If you want to close a window that you can't click on, press "Alt+F4".

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/28/2010 11:05:03 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Really ? That's still around ? I admit I haven't tried it in XP, Ctrl+Alt+Del didn't do what it used to so I figured it was gone. Even with that, in 98 I could close any particular instance of IE, in XP it closes them all. And you just about can't figure out what's what.

Actually, I think we should get back to DOS. Try to work a virus on me after I've edited COMMAND.COM.

T

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 2:37:39 AM   
areallivehuman


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline 		Ball joint wear indicators are a farce. They're best checked by jacking up from under the lower control arm until the wheel is about 2 inches off the ground and prying the wheel up with a large bar. Lower ball joints take a beating on that model.

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 3:23:26 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Works on Win7 Home.  Never knew that trick before.  Thanks, Mr C.

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 7:28:42 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Firefox.

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 8:46:07 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Firefox.



THIS

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 8:54:27 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"It's not scanning your machine, it's only 'pretending to scan it'"

ZZACTLY. Like I said this thing was just reloaded. I did just a bit of the old style HTML, and about the time I got out of it was when this "hide" everything came in. You can't move it or resize it or anything, nor close it because anywhere you click on it invokes the link. Hope to your deity you have your basic security set right.


It's just a "fake scan scam" ... there's loads of sites out there that do it. Been going on for years.

So long as you've got IE updates switched on, and an anti-virus programme that includes an embedded stopper (like AVG Free) you'll be fine.

They rely on people being dumb enough to believe the "warnings".

The other scam that's really taking off in the UK is cold-callers pretending to be from your ISP (or a security company), getting you to run something that puts loads of confusing information on your screen (confusing if you're not a techie, at any rate), and then convincing you to either pay directly via credit card, or type things in that open up your PC so they can data harvest at a later date (like later the same day).

Oh, and as for recommending Firefox, it's currently no more secure than IE is.

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:05:35 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		A gaping wound is more secure than IE. 

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:17:36 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

A gaping wound is more secure than IE. 

If you were correct I would agree with you.

Hint; this kind of stuff is part of what I do for a living, but by all means give me the benefit of your "wisdom" – I’m always up for a good chuckle

It's a broad trade-off between platform size (the bigger the market share, the more a given browser gets targeted) vs. development group size and ability to react quickly to identified issues. So what you're after is a brilliant browser, made by a huge company, that almost no-one else uses. In other words, dream on.

I.E., Firefox and Chrome are all broadly as secure as one another. All have shortcomings, and all are patched regularly. However, in the event that a new threat is identified, MS are historically (of late at least) better at fixing things quickly, due to the massive publicity any flaw in their apps attracts from poorly-informed saddos.

So long as you’re using a relatively up to date OS (Win7 or Vista) with a current, updated virus checker which includes an embedded interrupter, and a patched browser, then they're all pretty much of a muchness.

Oh and for anyone thinking Apple are any better, they're not. They've got a much smaller market share, so they get targeted less frequently, but they tend to respond much more slowly when issues do occur (witness recent Mac & iPhone Security issues).

Anyone else suggesting Linux should just do the world a favour and kill themselves, soonest

It's also a good idea to check one of the "latest threat" sites - Sophos (the anti-virus & security people) run a very good site, and a very informative Facebook page too, so if you're on FB just "like" them and you'll get regular updates.

Edited To Add: The single worst offender, in the last couple of years, has actually been Adobe and their Free Acrobat Reader - there were a bunch of holes identified a while back and it took them three weeks to come up with a partial fix, and six weeks to fix the lot, and they were some pretty big holes. Which is abysmal. And yet no-one complains about them, despite many PCs having their Free Acrobat Reader, because people are ... well they're mostly pretty clueless/uninformed, to be fair.

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 11/29/2010 9:22:11 AM >

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:33:34 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		So when you said: 'IE is as secure as Firefox' what you actually meant to say was 'IE is as secure as Firefox if you are running Vista or 7...' What about those people who are running XP? Is IE better for them, too? Or is it as secure as a hole in the head?

Firefox is a much safer internet browser than IE. Much safer. On saying that, what I didn't say, but meant to, is that Firefox is a much safer browser than IE especially if it is running a couple of the more well-known plugins - Adblock Plus, WOT and NoScript.

In the last year, I have cleaned maybe 20 odd PCs of malware and viruses. They all had one thing in common. That's right - Internet Explorer was the browser of choice. It's shit, really it is.




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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:39:26 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

So when you said: 'IE is as secure as Firefox' what you actually meant to say was 'IE is as secure as Firefox if you are running Vista or 7...' What about those people who are running XP? Is IE better for them, too? Or is it as secure as a hole in the head?

Firefox is a much safer internet browser than IE. Much safer. On saying that, what I didn't say, but meant to, is that Firefox is a much safer browser than IE especially if it is running a couple of the more well-known plugins - Adblock Plus, WOT and NoScript.

In the last year, I have cleaned maybe 20 odd PCs of malware and viruses. They all had one thing in common. That's right - Internet Explorer was the browser of choice. It's shit, really it is.

FYI, as just one example (and there are many):

http://www.conceivablytech.com/4144/products/chrome-firefox-less-secure-than-ie/

So there are more holes in Firefox than IE. Does this make IE "better"? No, it doesn't because IE has bigger market share, so gets targeted more often.

But in pure "more secure" terms, IE is ahead. Where you've "cleaned" PCs, these would almost certainly not have suffered penetration if they'd been running up-to-date versions and a virus-checker with interrupter. And, to be fair, most penetrations are down to clueless user behaviour, not any inherent browser issues.

One thing though; when IE had a killer market share, that was all the bad boys concentrated on. As Firefox and Chrome gain share, they kind of stick their heads over the parapet, so to speak. So keep checking sites like Sophos regularly for news and updates.

Anyway, you do as you please - I honestly don't care which browsers people use; I use IE, Firefox & Chrome (as I have to keep up to speed on security threats). Just don't give out incorrect advice, as you're currently doing.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:44:19 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO...
Mac's were small targets before and few people designed programs to attack. But I was called to do a virus (similar to termy's) removal from 4 imacs in one week about a month ago. Heh.. Technology..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings Termyn8or....

There is always the old standby. Just use a Mac and every pc/windoze box that pops up you can be certain is either an ad or malware trying to infect you. It can't, but that is a different story. It auto-fails even if you try to let it infect you. Quite a pleasant feeling actually. <grins>

Be well....

Malkinius



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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:46:43 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Do yourself a favor Termy, and find another computer somewhere that you can plug in a flashdrive. Download these products, TDSSKiller (in case your browser was hijacked), Malwarebytes (be sure to update!!), and CCleaner to dump out the temp files (that bad page is still in your history).

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RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:47:41 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		It's not incorrect advice.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Virus Warning ? - 11/29/2010 9:50:27 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah it is. My job is cleaning up PC's. Firefox is more than capable of getting infections. You have fixed 20? I have fixed.. well hell.. who knows how many in 10 yrs of doing this... but trust me Firefox users are equally at risk.
20, isn't even a valid test.
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

It's not incorrect advice.


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Profile   Post #: 20
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