RE: Weight and Master/Dom control

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barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 11:08:21 AM)
Yes and i have asked YOU personally not to in the past, you know it and i know it, so let's be honest why you do it. You do it because instead of responding to my post you are trying to take a jab at me. NOW you can lie about why you use it but don't expect me to believe you. The choice whether to pretend you use it as you do is up to you, but sorry here i need to call bullshit again. grins, but you go on... angel

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 11:35:05 AM)
So, on top of everything else, you can read my mind too huh? Yes, I now recall you asking me in the past to call you something else, and yes, I even see it now again in your signature line. I call folks by the first part of their name on here, if you have a problem with being called what you, your self, named tyour self on here, that is not my problem, it is yours. I am not going to waste one iota of my pityful brain remembering your preferences. I think the fact that you choose to zero in on what you are called, rather than the subject and content of my post, says more than you will ever know. I am smart enough to know that this is only my interpretaion of it though, and to know I can not read your mind and intent. So yes, barely, (that one WAS on purpose) if it makes you feel better to think you are so much a wonderful point maker that I can not respond to any of your oh so much more deep and knowing posts, in any way except to call you by the name I see when I reply to you, go ahead and believe that. Back to the OP, I swear I am not trying to be cantankerous in asking you what I have asked. I really want to try to understand the way some folks minds work when it comes to first impressions. I have met people who, at first glance, I thought man whatta hot sumbish. After getting to know them, they have gotten uglier and uglier. I have also met people who were not much (or totally nothing IMHO) to look at, who, after getting to know them, they got more beautiful in my eyes. I get the "attraction" thing, we all have to be attracted to someone in order to think of beginning a relationship with them. I just really do not get the judgement about someones whole personality and such by how they look.

subkatslut -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 11:46:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Because i am calling bullshit on everyone here who is acting like they NEVER take looks or attraction into account when they judge a person for a prospective Master or Dom. angel I don't think many people have made this claim you seem to think everyone has and is lying about. I know I haven't. Looks and especially attraction are key when it comes to any romantic/physical relationship. But that's not how this thread was presented. It may be how it's been twisted and become but we have people addressing totally separate issues all over the place here. We also all take many things into consideration when looking for Master/Dom/sub/slave, etc...the key difference between some people here is some make a whole lot of assumptions without any knowledge while others prefer to make decisions with at least some knowledge to truly base it on. Truth be told the OP kind of did exactly what you're saying here. She hid her true feelings behind a broad sweeping attack of a whole group of people who it may or may not apply to.

littlewonder -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 11:48:40 AM)
I admit I am one who goes by first impressions. If I first see a man and he's heavyset, dresses sloppily, smells like he hasn't taken a shower in a week, walks like he's about to fall over, etc...yeah, I'm not going to go any further than that with him. I find nothing at all attractive about him and how he looks speaks volumes to me. I don't think we'd even get along as friends since just from looking at the way he takes care of himself and holds himself we probably don't have much in common. I'll smile, finish my coffee, stand up, shake his hand and let him know we're not compatible and be on my way. They say first impressions are made within 3 seconds of seeing a person. For me it's completely true. If that makes me shallow I'm more than fine with that.

AquaticSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 11:54:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subkatslut quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Because i am calling bullshit on everyone here who is acting like they NEVER take looks or attraction into account when they judge a person for a prospective Master or Dom. angel I don't think many people have made this claim you seem to think everyone has and is lying about. I know I haven't. Looks and especially attraction are key when it comes to any romantic/physical relationship. But that's not how this thread was presented. It may be how it's been twisted and become but we have people addressing totally separate issues all over the place here. We also all take many things into consideration when looking for Master/Dom/sub/slave, etc...the key difference between some people here is some make a whole lot of assumptions without any knowledge while others prefer to make decisions with at least some knowledge to truly base it on. Truth be told the OP kind of did exactly what you're saying here. She hid her true feelings behind a broad sweeping attack of a whole group of people who it may or may not apply to. I definitely haven't. I'm just questioning the idea of the OP: That you can tell someone's self control from the weight on their profile, which - as she worded it - may not even be listed. That and I'm amused by the fact that she would play with the person who is obviously eating an unhealthy diet as long as he wasn't fat when this is supposed to be about having someone who is being in control and being healthy.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:06:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I admit I am one who goes by first impressions. If I first see a man and he's heavyset, dresses sloppily, smells like he hasn't taken a shower in a week, walks like he's about to fall over, etc...yeah, I'm not going to go any further than that with him. I find nothing at all attractive about him and how he looks speaks volumes to me. I don't think we'd even get along as friends since just from looking at the way he takes care of himself and holds himself we probably don't have much in common. I'll smile, finish my coffee, stand up, shake his hand and let him know we're not compatible and be on my way. They say first impressions are made within 3 seconds of seeing a person. For me it's completely true. If that makes me shallow I'm more than fine with that. I dont find what you talked about here shallow. I would make the same decision. I am wondering about those who will, just because they see someone who is fat, decide that they can judge every aspect of their make-up by that fact alone. Went on a date a few weeks ago. Nice man, I had met him through a friend,. 5 minutes into the meal, after noticing the dirt under his nails, and the fact that he talked with food in his mouth, I thought about going to the bathroom and seeing if there was a window I could crawl out of.....I know someone who cant clean up well before a date and talks while spraying food is not someone I am interested in.......

Awareness -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:08:58 PM)
Ye Gods, fast reply! (I keep forgetting that). This thread is getting ridiculously off track and the claws are coming out. The original question was related to whether obesity was an indicator that an individual who self-identifies as dominant lacks the control to assume responsibility for a sub or slave. Let's take the following as read: * People are implicitly judged based upon appearance. That's how we're all wired. EG: Attractive people do better in court. * Everyone makes initial choices based upon attraction and the underlying cause of any obesity doesn't change that attraction. * Men like hot chicks. Men will generally try and nail the hottest chick they can. Other attributes only become important in a relationship context * Women like confident, assertive, socially dominant guys with their shit together. Looks for many women aren't generally as important..... ... but not online. Online, women can only go by appearance, attributes and text. Plus they get bombarded by email. So online, women turn into men. As a rule, both genders will look for a partner which is what they feel they can optimally get given what they have to offer. It's all game theory. We try and maximise our return. A preference for guys who are in-shape is absolutely entirely up to the individual. As is a preference for women who are sane. However in this thread, there's a distinction between preference and actually answering the original question. The original question was about dominance and obesity - not preferences for attraction. As I said before, I don't think it's necessarily an accurate strategy, although there could be a lot of correlation in many cases. Thing is, trying to come up with counter-examples to trip each other up is a fool's game. It's not about preferences or attraction. It's not about whether people are judgmental bitches. It's simply about whether obesity is an indicator or not. IE: The original topic. I find myself wondering if it's possible for people to possibly stick to the topic without wandering into the shark-infested waters of the standard fat thread. Or is this perhaps an example of why subs require a dominant of some kind to keep them focused.

subkatslut -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:13:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub That and I'm amused by the fact that she would play with the person who is obviously eating an unhealthy diet as long as he wasn't fat when this is supposed to be about having someone who is being in control and being healthy. Actually I think that was the first time in 19-20 pages where she even mentioned health...but I could be wrong. But it does help to confirm what her real feelings on the topic are. quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder If I first see a man and he's heavyset, dresses sloppily, smells like he hasn't taken a shower in a week, walks like he's about to fall over, etc...yeah, I'm not going to go any further than that with him. I find nothing at all attractive about him and how he looks speaks volumes to me. Does weight even matter in this instance? See and this is an example of why this is such a sensitive topic for many. Because most people would move on real quick based on any of the other qualities listed. Why does it need to be combined with weight? Because clearly all heavyset people don't dress sloppily, refrain from showers all week long or walk like they are going to fall over and similarly there are non heavyset people who do. Why can't someone merely say I am not attracted to heavier people without all the other insults?

angelikaJ -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:14:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel On a personal note my fat friends even the guys know this also. They are fine with it as they know i need to be sexually and basically attracted to a man to be in a relationship with him. They know i believe that most fat people are fat because they choose to be and THEY HAVE ALL yes ALL said that they choose to be this way. Yes they have medical issues that make it hard to lose and in the end they are HONEST with themselves and others that to lose the weight is too hard and not something they wish to expend energy changing at the moment. Even though most bitch they want to lose weight. I am one of those also. So i really don't get your point. angel angel, I did not become fat because I chose to. I had a zipping fast metabolism that came to a screeching halt after a knee injury and a difficult 6 month convalescence. I had a cognitive distortion because for my entire life I could eat whatever I wanted and struggled to gain/maintain weight. I had horrible eating habits and it didn't matter. I needed the calories. It took me a long time to learn that had changed, that I had changed... and only after I recognised it, then I began a long struggle with weight. The first success was maintaining a weight for 4 years without gaining any. Last year I began to lose. I now weigh less than I did 19 years ago. My MD wants me to stop at more than 20 lbs past the point I was when I began gaining. Most of the "obese" women I know became obese for a specific psychological reason that had nothing to do with conscious choice either: they were either molested or raped at some point before they became adults. I get that some people love blue eyes, and some people get hot for curly hair. I know that there are people who have racial preferences and that doesn't make them racist. The OP has her opinions, you have yours, I have mine. The mini-wars here don't make yours any more (or less) valid. We do all have our preferences. That is correct. Some of our preferences are not even within our conscious awareness. Weight is often an exception to that. Esthetics, health ... I do find it interesting, as I have already expressed to the OP, that there are overweight women who find overweight men unacceptable, you being among them. I have a difficult time in understanding this. It seems a hypocrisy. Again, I understand we all have our preferences. Logically I get that. Somewhere inside me though it seems to trip an unfairness balance switch or something... for me. And that is not a critcism of you. edit: spelling

littlewonder -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:19:32 PM)
for me yes if they're obese the first thing that runs through my mind is that he won't be able to dominate me. I need a man who can keep up with me. He can't keep up with me if he's obese. My d/s is very much tied into my physical attraction to someone and being in a relationship with him. If I don't find you attractive enough to be in a relationship with you then I won't find you able to be in control of me in any way whatsoever. Like I said...first impressions are a bitch. It's life. If someone doesn't like the way they impress others then either they have to get used to that fact or do something to change it if they are unhappy. While I'm not obese I've gained a few pounds recently due to major stresses in my life. Am I unhappy about it? Yes. Does it affect us in some way? Yes. For these reasons I'm doing everything I can to make sure I get rid of this weight I put on. I know how even putting on a few extra pounds can affect one's self esteem and outlooks on life so I can only imagine how being obese would affect a person and to be honest...I like incredibly confident men.

AquaticSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:20:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subkatslut quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub That and I'm amused by the fact that she would play with the person who is obviously eating an unhealthy diet as long as he wasn't fat when this is supposed to be about having someone who is being in control and being healthy. Actually I think that was the first time in 19-20 pages where she even mentioned health...but I could be wrong. But it does help to confirm what her real feelings on the topic are. I dunno. I know she said she wants someone to cure her of her drive-thru habit. It seems fairly obvious to me that a person eating that badly wouldn't do that. So if it's really about in control eating, seems like that would be a deal-breaker. But that person gets the huge benefit of the doubt - thinking that they will change what she knows to be their lifestyle - but someone who doesn't have their weight listed on their profile gets none. Personally, I'm in the "seriously - just say you aren't attracted to fat people" camp. It's not going to hurt anyone's feelings and it doesn't need to be justified.

angelikaJ -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:20:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I admit I am one who goes by first impressions. If I first see a man and he's heavyset, dresses sloppily, smells like he hasn't taken a shower in a week, walks like he's about to fall over, etc...yeah, I'm not going to go any further than that with him. I find nothing at all attractive about him and how he looks speaks volumes to me. I don't think we'd even get along as friends since just from looking at the way he takes care of himself and holds himself we probably don't have much in common. I'll smile, finish my coffee, stand up, shake his hand and let him know we're not compatible and be on my way. They say first impressions are made within 3 seconds of seeing a person. For me it's completely true. If that makes me shallow I'm more than fine with that. littlewonder, Why did you lump together being heavyset with being a slob, unhygienic and being wobbly? Why did the stereotypical "fat slob" come to mind in a discussion of overweight dominant men/ prospective Masters?

littlewonder -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:22:38 PM)
It was not meant to mean that I thought obese people are slobs, etc..I just meant that if I meet someone and they are any of the above and many other things...thus the, etc....I'm not going to be attracted to him at all.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:26:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub snip Personally, I'm in the "seriously - just say you aren't attracted to fat people" camp. It's not going to hurt anyone's feelings and it doesn't need to be justified. All my typing and you summed up my feelings in these 2 sentences-lol.

AquaticSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:28:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I need a man who can keep up with me. He can't keep up with me if he's obese. My d/s is very much tied into my physical attraction to someone and being in a relationship with him. If I don't find you attractive enough to be in a relationship with you then I won't find you able to be in control of me in any way whatsoever. The bolded part completely makes sense to me. But depending on how you are defining obese, you just don't know if they can keep up with you. Some people, unfortunately, are just thick but lead very active lives. Now, of course, if you aren't attracted... you just aren't attracted! Nothing wrong with that. quote: I know how even putting on a few extra pounds can affect one's self esteem and outlooks on life so I can only imagine how being obese would affect a person and to be honest...I like incredibly confident men. What on earth makes you think that larger men can't be incredibly confident? Ok, so your self esteem has been affected by putting on the pounds. Remember: This is something that matters to you so it's logical that it affects you. Don't assume that it matters so much to everyone else. I know a number of confident overweight men and women just as I know meek and spineless thin men and women. And, again, you aren't attracted to them. So it's moot. I'm not trying to convince you to be attracted them. But these statements simply aren't going to hold up when applied to overweight men broadly.

barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 12:47:59 PM)
angelikaJ, when you become a Man who claims to be a Dom or a Master it will apply to this thread - seriously, until then it doesn't. And i really don't care how you became fat and why you think strangers on a message board need to know why you are fat in a thread that has nothing to do with women or subs. However, the reality of life is, there will be people who reject you for same and bypass you when they are looking for a partner, if fat women aren't what they are attracted too. Are you seriously implying that men who aren't attracted to fat women, ignore this knowledge of themselves knowing that they aren't attracted to you and know they don't want to deal with that when they are seeking a new partner and still waste their time they could spend on someone they ARE attracted too on getting to know you? Your fat, which means the playing field of who will find you attractive is probably different from the playing field of women who aren't fat. That's life. It doesn't MATTER how you became fat, appearances count and yes, they count when people are looking for potential partners. So i really don't get your post to me. You are a stranger to me, i really don't care why you are fat. Like my girlfriends we do sit around at times and talk about why we are fat. However, these are people i have a vested relationship with. Otherwise, when i am browsing profiles and see someone who is fat, i will click next. I don't get why people think that is SOOO wrong. Like i said, people are full of it if they say they don't judge people on appearances. The only people who probably don't visually are people who cannot see the visual appearance. Then they do judge people based on what their "seeing" is. PErsonally i don't think people know what the topic is anymore, even me. We have you saying why you are fat, which makes no sense to me as you are 1) a woman and 2) not a dom or Master, we have people trying to imply that if you say someone is fat and unhealthy, you MUST not be attracted to skinny people who are unhealthy -- nevermind its the appearance that many times causes the initial attraction that opens the door to get to know and spend time getting to know someone etc. people are trying to narrow this down to an exact science and are trying to center it around fat people for some reason. Oh and angelikaJ, i am a total hypocrit when it comes to men and being fat, just because i am overweight doesn't mean i HAVE to accept fat men in my sphere of potential doms and masters. I am very hypocritical with regard to men on a lot of levels, i think they should be successful at my age when i am living paycheck to paycheck, i think they should have a better job then me, etc. However, i am not a politically correct person, i don't try and make men and women equal. My expectations for a Man who would be a potential master to me is MUCH MUCH higher in expectation than i hold myself too. Perhaps that's why i seek out men who reach those expectations, because i don't and know that they will utilize their own expectations for me, not myself and they will create the atmosphere and environment wherein i can reach and maintain their expectations. Something i don't do all that great on for myself when i am by myself. I have reasons for looking for the men i do, i find them and know that i will be judges HARSHLY by them. I accept that and their inspection of me which is not politically correct as this thread indicates people need to be. I accept their critisim and their demands of the expectations they will set for me if i become theirs. I don't want a Man who holds himself to the same acceptable of being overweight that i do myself. Therefore, when i see a Man who is overweight, i will pass him by as he is NOT what i want in a man. You don't HAVE to agree, but i really don't care why he is fat. angel

porcelaine -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 1:00:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Atropos19 Blah. It's not really worth saying anything else. How could I have failed to see the wisdom of the "pretty girl" logic? It seems so clear to me now. I'm fat, therefore I have no right to take issue with how anyone perceives me or how anyone treats me. I'm unattractive, therefore any opinion I might express about love, sex, romance, etc. is automatically invalidated. "How dare these fatties try to defend themselves and accuse us of being shallow? Don't they realize that they're, like, ya know, fat? Like, really." Time to go sit alone in the corner and leave the popular kids to themselves. That's the way they prefer it anyway. Greetings Atropos, You're entitled to your feelings as we all are. However, where the problem comes in is the idea that everyone must accept a physical form that doesn't coincide with their preferences/standards for a companion. Although some herald fat acceptance and suggest we must focus on the inner versus the other, at the end of the day people like what they like. Of course some are tactful in articulating this and others are crude and ill bred. I'm not suggesting the latter is commendable and I wouldn't condone those mannerisms at all. The premise the OP mentioned is truthfully the pot and kettle effect. My commonsense tells me that if you deride someone for a problem you have or insist they address a supposed flaw (as perceived by others) that you're ignoring in yourself you're going to invite a response. Oftentimes it isn't what you say but how it's presented that determines its receptivity by the other party. Namaste, ~porcelaine

angelikaJ -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 1:25:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel angelikaJ, when you become a Man who claims to be a Dom or a Master it will apply to this thread - seriously, until then it doesn't. And i really don't care how you became fat and why you think strangers on a message board need to know why you are fat in a thread that has nothing to do with women or subs. However, the reality of life is, there will be people who reject you for same and bypass you when they are looking for a partner, if fat women aren't what they are attracted too. Are you seriously implying that men who aren't attracted to fat women, ignore this knowledge of themselves knowing that they aren't attracted to you and know they don't want to deal with that when they are seeking a new partner and still waste their time they could spend on someone they ARE attracted too on getting to know you? Your fat, which means the playing field of who will find you attractive is probably different from the playing field of women who aren't fat. That's life. It doesn't MATTER how you became fat, appearances count and yes, they count when people are looking for potential partners. So i really don't get your post to me. You are a stranger to me, i really don't care why you are fat. Like my girlfriends we do sit around at times and talk about why we are fat. However, these are people i have a vested relationship with. Otherwise, when i am browsing profiles and see someone who is fat, i will click next. I don't get why people think that is SOOO wrong. Like i said, people are full of it if they say they don't judge people on appearances. The only people who probably don't visually are people who cannot see the visual appearance. Then they do judge people based on what their "seeing" is. angel angel, You are the one who made the comment about people "choosing to be fat". I merely addressed that. I voiced an outline between the logic of something which I understood and how that seemed contradictory to me on another level. (And I stated that it was an observation of self) As for my being "fat", I don't see myself that way anymore... most of the time. I have less than 20lbs before I reach the "stop" number. At that point I will have lost more than 30% of my weight. I am shopping mostly at second hand stores because it makes no sense to spend $ on clothes that won't fit me in a month. The man who is my Master knew me when I was fat. I don't get why you're hostile... for no apparent reason. Many of us are strangers to each other and yet you feel free to post without reserve... to other strangers.

barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 1:35:57 PM)
No angelikaJ, i said MOST people and MANY people. I NEVER said ALL. So again, why you are or were fat has nothing to do with this thread - nor does it have anything to do with what i said. So if you believe you aren't the MOST or MANY people i don't get why you are replying with WHY you are or were fat. I don't get why you think i am hostile - grins, perhaps that is the issue with threads like these, people are really sensitive. To me, the op was a very logical question, one that could have been explored without emotions of everyone who is insecure with being fat or the politically incorrect concepts surrounding fat, sensitivity to fat etc etc etc. Your master knowing you when you were fat has also no bearing. I never said there weren't women who accept fat men, just as there are women who reject them. Same goes for men and their preferences. Your last sentence makes no sense to me. Congrats on reaching your goals though, the fact that you are reaching them means that you actually could lose the weight and you made the choice to do so. So the reverse works also. MANY AND MOST people simply see making the life changes too hard so yeah they do CHOOSE to be and stay fat. angel

Twoshoes -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/4/2010 2:00:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB Did you pay no attention in school as a kid? Why do you think they made you go to gym class? Why do you think your mother made you eat vegetables? Because those things are good for you at a very, very basic, simple level. Because they're the building blocks on which the rest of you balances. The you that you probably want to stick around for a while. Sure, you're an adult, and you get to smoke, eat crap, refuse to exercise and do all manner of things that are unhealthy for you, but it's not smart. And it's not insensitive or superficial of me to think so, either. In fact, apparently I care more than you do about whoever you're with, if you would be fine with them not doing some form of exercise and perhaps eating food that isn't loaded with corn syrup and pesticides. I actually grew up in Europe, so I didn't know what corn syrup was and I'm fairly certain anything my grandparents grew could easily be certified organic. Actually, my longest standing complaint about Canada is that all the produce tastes wrong. Plus, I actually think I enjoy cooking. Well, when I feel like it. (And certainly no one gets to tell me.[8D]) That's not strange to me either; my uncle is an army chef. I'm one of those people who would totally give someone a disparaging look and a sarcastic comment if they asked for ketchup if I had cooked something. Running gives me an endrophine high. I used always run back from school pretending I'm a paratrooper or something when I was a kid. At the same time, it doesn't exactly seem like much of an effort or like having a deep reason for what I subjectively prefer.

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