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RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 8:24:22 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Since the founders added the articles that outline the steps and methods to amend the original body of the Constitution, Tazzy, why is it ok to push through great social changes, and expansions of gov't power, without using their template? Perhaps that is what is meant by, "getting back to the Constitution?"


OK, so lets get to examples- what laws and expansions of power are you referring to? I suspect I know, but want to let you explain it.

As you could tell by my snark previous, I agree that the President(s) have assumed power not given to them in the Consitution; the internment of the Japanese (if thats what you were referring to) is one, the PATRIOT acts provisions of warrantless wiretapping and detainment are another.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 8:25:16 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
how about the President asserting that he has the right to imprison American citizens without trial?



I hear you. Fucking Roosevelt.


lets not forget lincoln.  (Habeous Corpus)


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 8:28:48 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
Conservatives generally want changes only made by the process outlined in the Constitution.

Not by Judges or  politicians decreeing.

Following the Constitutional process or extra constitutional decrees.  



OK, fair enough. Give us an example of "politicians decreeing" changes that are extra-Constitutional.

Oh, wait, I got one- how about the President asserting that he has the right to imprison American citizens without trial? Or wiretapping our phones? Or reading our email?

But what about those Judges? They aren't in the Constitution!

Oh, wait. Yeah they are.

So what un-Constitutional judicial actions are you referring to?


emancipation proclamation

all EO's are unconstitutional.

They expand through construction.  if this = that and that times over there = this here then we can construe that is that under.

presto extra constitutional.  Now I can show you how many words through construction are completely reversed.  We were supposedly designed under the laws of england and somehow many of the words through said construction have been magically reversed in meaning.  like freeman for example.  fee simple land title stayed the same and they pretend or give it lip service claiming it realy allodial but in practice its fee simple meaning you owe a fee to the lord!  (taxes!!)


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/30/2010 8:35:43 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 8:39:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Good catch man thanks!

yes the act is the "deed" or the enactment and the constitution established it!
2 points!



Damn RO, let's not start agreeing with each other.

That's never any fun.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/30/2010 8:41:07 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 8:43:25 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
Oh, wait, I got one- how about the President asserting that he has the right to imprison American citizens without trial?


Thats only for "United States" citizens.

You have American Citizens (Nationals)
United State citizens
State citizens
American Indians which have a quasi status.
Oh yeh and per the government census about 300,000 Sovereigns who are not a citizen but friends of the states and maintain their foreign jurisdiction under fisa and arms length doctrine.

oh and the United States included the State citizens in their club in the 14th amendment that was never lawfully passed as discussed (and validated) on the floor on 1967 and in the congressional record.

Just up and one day said hey everyone of you are now a citizen of the United States!  LOL

Last time I checked you had to swear allegiance to the club you wanted to join before that could happen....but who is splitting hairs LOLOLOL



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/30/2010 8:50:58 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 8:49:27 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
Both Bush and now Obama have a major screw loose. They think Americans are the enemy, and use the Patriot act to monitor any opposition. Even Homeland security declared half the population potential terrorists. Then Obama takes it one step further, and thinks combatants deserve a fair trial. Hell, they were taken prisoner for a reason and it sure as hell wasn't for not paying the parking meter.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 9:03:04 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Both Bush and now Obama have a major screw loose. They think Americans are the enemy, and use the Patriot act to monitor any opposition. Even Homeland security declared half the population potential terrorists. Then Obama takes it one step further, and thinks combatants deserve a fair trial. Hell, they were taken prisoner for a reason and it sure as hell wasn't for not paying the parking meter.


Americans are the enemy.

Its not your fault, it was set up that way on purpose.

You circumvented the constitution when you contracted with the beast.

You are an enemy of the state because you stopped using constitutional gold and silver, you opened up a national bank and use "private script" for your money and rent it at interest and that interest can never be paid back.  (usury) 

You let them privatize and incorporate the de jure government.  Thats why the federal reserve is private because if they were public it would be unconstitutional to print that worthless trash they call money.

Once these agencies are private corporations they have all those rights granted by this last scotus ruling and out of your hands or at best government has a significant loss of control as its now more indirect and they monetized everything converting government into a profit based club.

I looked at my electric bill today and they are putting on an "aid" charge.

They now charge me to fund heating aid to low income people, not through the government but through the fucking electric company.

Its there new work around now that people are catching on that they are not supposed to be paying property taxes.

and it removes these humanitarian programs from the tax rolls.  If you want electricity though you better pay it.

It was never intended to be that way






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/30/2010 9:09:38 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Living Constitution - 11/30/2010 9:04:28 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Both Bush and now Obama have a major screw loose. They think Americans are the enemy, and use the Patriot act to monitor any opposition. Even Homeland security declared half the population potential terrorists. Then Obama takes it one step further, and thinks combatants deserve a fair trial. Hell, they were taken prisoner for a reason and it sure as hell wasn't for not paying the parking meter.


And how many of them were released as innocent?

When you offer a bounty in a poor country you are going to find a whole hell of a lot of combatants.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 3:29:41 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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RO,  a $20 gold piece will cost close to $1450 right now. 

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 3:42:22 AM   
tazzygirl


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~FR

First EO was issued by George Washington. And its taken this long to complain about them being unconstitutional?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 3:43:53 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Arent we is a state of emergency still?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 3:46:20 AM   
tazzygirl


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Dont you mean........ in a state of emergency still? And EO's have nothing to do with that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 4:15:33 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

First EO was issued by George Washington. And its taken this long to complain about them being unconstitutional?


yes and there were 10 presidents before george washington and george washington who like hamilton was a federalist/monarchist and pusher of the democracy that is rotting this country to its core.

In a democracy as they the kings of england have set up you have no individual rights, you only have the rights as a group under the sovereign.

As a group you can be classified UNDER the jurisdiction of the government UNDER the constitution.

As a group you are a fiction called a corporation and that was not good enough so they made you a corporation sole....SEE THE ALL CAPITAL NAME ON YOUR DL AND CC'S AND ALL GOVERNMENT PAPERWORK.

(to get jurisdiction over you, the title of a king without the protections and immunities of the king) *what a deal!

Mom and dad consented for you when you were born and plopped your foot prints on a piece of paper called a certificate of live birth.  Of course they were given full disclosure of the contract prior to doing such an act!  NOT!

As an individual in the original republic you are classified OVER the constitution.

The constitution forces the PERSON which was created for the intendment of law operations only has standing UNDER the constitution except in murder and 7th amendment under common law.

Which they conveniently have statutized such that they can claim jurisdiction by your traverse into it.

Common law is the law of the land, and in the correct words of that staff attorney "an alternative to statutory law" but try and go to court without traversing into statutory jurisdiction.  let me know how that turns out.

Again in his own words (double talk to cover the true words), he said "the common law is supplemented by codifying it into statutory law", in which I responded that he cannot have it both ways, its either statutory or its common law alternative. (*acquiescence again by his silence) 

The whole system of law as we know it is based on fraud and the power of a few men who are basically skimming by devise and contrivance.

An EO gives the prazzydante the same power the king has in england.

Its very easy to prove we in america live in a feudal society developed under the normans combined with the evil roman cult.

We were raised and taught one thing but another is true.  A country of foreigners who could only sign an x much less comprehend the underhanded crap these scum BAR attorneys were pulling on everyone.

If you review english law a freeman is a slave who was converted to a citizen that was required to swear allegiance to the lord (as a vassal, hence the property of the lord). 

Which do you prefer the burning pot or the burning fire outside the pot.   Its the best most ingenious scam I have ever seen in history.

Swearing to allegiance to the lord now gave them "citizenship" status and they could enjoy "certain" freedoms (actually privileges) they could not enjoy before and now they are FREE!  woohoo!   A nasty black collar to a nice polished shiny one but a collar none the less.

Now an EO is in effect a declaration or decree, it functions the same way.

In the end it is like I told that attorney that the system in the way it is being construed in the courts with the legislature having no requirement to pass lawful constitutional legislation there is no separation in government and has no means of self correction in the terms it is being exercised today and is completely out of the power of the people to change it.


I explained the 16th amend where the courts as he claimed was the bulwark and gate keeper to stop anything unlawful, being capable of legislating "outlaw" without accountability created the 16th amendment with no authority to do so overruling the determinations of the courts and likewise with the 14th, again in violation of con law.

So we have so called government who can and does do whatever the hell they damn well please regardless of the constituency and because the average american is lucky to be able to balance a checkbook no worry it will ever change. 

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/1/2010 4:32:45 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 4:24:13 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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Ya know, RO, i started this thread because i could not wrap my head around the issue i brought up in the OP. Its pretty clear by my question that either i was being snarky, or i truly didnt understand. Welp, i wasnt being snarky. But reading your explanations tend to make my eyes glaze over.

Lets make this clearer.

I am not a lawyer, i am a nurse.

I have never studied law.

Never been to law school.

Have no desire to do so.

Yet i do want to learn more about the history and politics of the country that i live in.

So, either dummy it up for me till i catch up to speed or shut up. Because, man, frankly, with the way you post, your giving me a migraine.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 4:38:18 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ya know, RO, i started this thread because i could not wrap my head around the issue i brought up in the OP. Its pretty clear by my question that either i was being snarky, or i truly didnt understand. Welp, i wasnt being snarky. But reading your explanations tend to make my eyes glaze over.

Lets make this clearer.

I am not a lawyer, i am a nurse.

I have never studied law.

Never been to law school.

Have no desire to do so.

Yet i do want to learn more about the history and politics of the country that i live in.

So, either dummy it up for me till i catch up to speed or shut up. Because, man, frankly, with the way you post, your giving me a migraine.


I am doing the best I can to reduce the "menagerie" called law which IS what rules this joint regardless of how fucked up it is to its lowest common denominator which is very difficult for people who are not versed in it.

BUT never fear

"IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE"

all 60,000,000 (million) of them.

Google books digitizing all these old documents is a researchers dream come true.

If you think you are having a hard time imagine what I and others went through and we are still not through that maze.

Here is precisely what you are up against:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goFxos6tz-o

I know I know you seen it before, well now you know what it means.  Humor yourself and listen to it again from start to finish and think about what he is saying and compare it to what I put up here and that will give you an understanding what you face when you walk this road.

The intent was that americans did not need to study law and the government would be self correcting. well its not.

George explains the reality of it to a T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

When was the last time you heard of a common law "Grand Jury" knocking out some bullshit supreme court ruling?

The common people do not know how to do that and they buried it so getting remedy in law is like trying to thread a needle on a roller coaster in the dark.

since the staff attorney did not know the law I thought I would help and emailed this to him:









details freaking details,  funny how lawmakers always manage to forget those insignificant little details when it comes to usurping power and money!

Now how many people who have served on a jury have been told that eh?  I can answer that one for you ZIPPO!

In fact they are told just the opposite and they are instructed what they (the court) can hear as evidence and how they must determine the outcome!!  (judge stacks deck)

All the while the jury not knowing the true power they have!  They can tell that judge to go fuck himself.


in my last post correct this:
quote:

I explained the 16th amend where the courts as he claimed was the bulwark and gate keeper to stop anything unlawful, being capable of legislating "outlaw" without accountability created the 16th amendment with no authority to do so overruling the determinations of the courts and likewise with the 14th, again in violation of con law.


to read this:

I explained the 16th amend where the courts as he claimed was the bulwark and gate keeper to stop anything unlawful, can be and are being overruled by a legislature that has no requirement (in his words) to legislate law in conformance with the constitution and in fact do legislate "outlaw" without accountability as they did when they created the 16th amendment with no authority to do so overruling the determinations of the courts and likewise with the 14th, again in violation of con law and there is no record of any referendums anywhere that the people ever got a vote on any of these matters.   It was the club members as George stated that do it for us because "we the people are incompetent"

Having a life OTHER than law is no excuse!







< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/1/2010 5:35:40 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 5:17:15 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Yeah RO,  how dare you post on a thread- titled "constitution"

Who is the most likely posted to such a thread?           Same title- could be "hey look RO".

-just sayn-

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 5:19:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Oh ffs.. no one told him he should not post here at all, pa. why are you trying, intentionally, to start trouble this morning?

Thank you RO. I know you are trying.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 7:05:52 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


OK, so lets get to examples- what laws and expansions of power are you referring to?



I'll throw you one little tiny example, Animu, and we'll see where it goes. Something where government has reached right into the daily lives of every one of us. By what Constitutional authority does the Federal gov't get to tell me what sort of light bulbs I can and cannot have in the bathroom where I keep the first aid kit?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 7:10:51 AM   
mnottertail


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I have never been forced to put any particular lighbulb anywhere, let alone where I shit.

You sure this is not a states rights issue?

This stinks of Joe the Plumber hyperbole. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Living Constitution - 12/1/2010 10:26:18 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/09/04/save-the-light-bulb/

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 40
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