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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/7/2010 10:11:09 PM   
Termyn8or


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"Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him
 and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or
 alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any
 alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be
 guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined
 not to exceed $ 100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both. "

That is unconstitutional. To enforce the requirement of driver's licenses it was argued to death. The courts had to rule that driving is a priveledge, using the public resources and therefore found that requirements for a license to drive was indeed Constitutional. However there is no such thing as a walking license or a license for riding a bicycle, for example. There should never be. The basis of showing required ID might come up in court because it is not exactly the same thing. Just have to wait until someone fights it.

For all you know I could be another McVeigh. I'm sure he had ID. I could be a sleeper from the empire of Poland planted here two generations ago, just waiting for the right time to strike. I've known white skinned Mexicans with blue eyes, and plenty of Arabs are not really darker than a White person with a deep tan. Our own President is not White. I guess he is half Black and half White, so if he happened to be walking down the street someday...........

A spy usually has near perfect diction in the languages of the countries on which he spies. And this visual profiling will tell nothing. There are Orientals who look completely White.

Therefore this is seen as discrimination against those with darker skin. You can't hear them, they look the same, you don't know their name, or if they have an accent. And they could be homebrew. This will likely be dismissed soon really. Having an ID doesn't mean you don't have a garage full of C4. or something worse. It is futile.

But it has one viable use - distraction.

Half of the laws on the books are unconstitutional, but if the court does not rule them so, they stand. This issue will stand or fall for more political reasons than ideological ones.

T

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/7/2010 10:26:33 PM   
tazzygirl


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~FR

Please, stop and consider. Requiring someone to carry an ID while out and about is unconstitutional. Now, there are requirements to have an ID to send anything via Fed Ex and such. Money Orders sellers are also requiring ID's. The CVS here has a sign up stating this policy is effective beginning Jan 1.

Coincidence?

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(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/7/2010 11:12:25 PM   
Termyn8or


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Not coincidence, trend. If it were a coincidence it would not be an issue.

T

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/7/2010 11:21:10 PM   
tazzygirl


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I just read a yahoo news thingy stating 50 something nurses and hospital workers filed suit with the EEOC in California because they were required to speak only english while at work. They are filipino.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101207/ap_on_bi_ge/ca_filipino_nurses_discrimination

Anyone who believes these types of issues are going away anytime soon has their head in the clouds (to put it nicely)

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 4:52:26 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him
 and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or
 alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any
 alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be
 guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined
 not to exceed $ 100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both. "

That is unconstitutional. To enforce the requirement of driver's licenses it was argued to death. The courts had to rule that driving is a priveledge, using the public resources and therefore found that requirements for a license to drive was indeed Constitutional. However there is no such thing as a walking license or a license for riding a bicycle, for example. There should never be. The basis of showing required ID might come up in court because it is not exactly the same thing. Just have to wait until someone fights it.

For all you know I could be another McVeigh. I'm sure he had ID. I could be a sleeper from the empire of Poland planted here two generations ago, just waiting for the right time to strike. I've known white skinned Mexicans with blue eyes, and plenty of Arabs are not really darker than a White person with a deep tan. Our own President is not White. I guess he is half Black and half White, so if he happened to be walking down the street someday...........

A spy usually has near perfect diction in the languages of the countries on which he spies. And this visual profiling will tell nothing. There are Orientals who look completely White.

Therefore this is seen as discrimination against those with darker skin. You can't hear them, they look the same, you don't know their name, or if they have an accent. And they could be homebrew. This will likely be dismissed soon really. Having an ID doesn't mean you don't have a garage full of C4. or something worse. It is futile.

But it has one viable use - distraction.

Half of the laws on the books are unconstitutional, but if the court does not rule them so, they stand. This issue will stand or fall for more political reasons than ideological ones.

T


Want to see the license for my bicycle?   It was issued by ......wait for it......US Army   lol  I also have a license plate that was issued to me by the City of Glendale, AZ when I was a kid.

BTW  carrying ID is a requirement for all legal aliens established by the Congress.   Not AZ.   AZ just agreed.


< Message edited by KenDckey -- 12/8/2010 4:54:45 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 8:47:52 AM   
Termyn8or


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I'm not an alien. Legal is a "relative" term.

If liberty is an inalienable right, obtaining papers to travel is tantamount to obtaining permission. Therefore it is unconstitutional. Just because things were unconstitutional in the past they do not automatically become Constitutional now.

In other words just because they did wrong in the past, does not make it right.

T

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 9:31:54 AM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

1 traffric stop
2 can't speak english (may require an intrepreter, however the majority of police I have seen are hispanic and speak spanglish)
3 being caught in a coyote house.
4 murder
5 manslaughter
6 b&e
how many laws are there other than this one that establish a crime?

Watch the training video



It also specifically says soliciting work from the side of a road.

And it specifically forbids using race.

What ken is pretending it will do is spoecifically banned in the law.



But ken already gave his position away. He doesn't want illegals caught.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 10:22:46 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

1 traffric stop
2 can't speak english (may require an intrepreter, however the majority of police I have seen are hispanic and speak spanglish)
3 being caught in a coyote house.
4 murder
5 manslaughter
6 b&e
how many laws are there other than this one that establish a crime?

Watch the training video


Once again, please quote the section of the law that says the charge can only be brought as an additional charge after an arrest for something else. I'm not interested in claims about how LEO will be instructed, that can be changed on a whim, but on the law itself which is obviously unconstitutional.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 10:53:12 AM   
KenDckey


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Specifically it doesn't.  it is in the training program and the Clinton Administration rulings previouly shown.   However, the reasonable suspecion portion kicks in.   The mere presence of a person doesn't kick in the reasonable suspecion.  It requies something else.   Therefore your jogging brown person, provided s/he isn't violating any other provision of the law is held harmless.   No reasonable suspecion exists.   and no where, not one word exists that it is pointed at one race, creed, color or anything.   Since illegal aliens come in all colors, shapes, and sizes under your hypothisis every citizen should be held for ICE determination.    That isn't going to happen and no one evinsions it happening I don't think.  but   if there is reasonable suspecion then even under federal law, already provided, they can do it anyway.   So there is no conflict.   Everything turns on reasonable suspecion.   And if they determine that this law is illegal, they may will have to look at the federal statues as well.   Even tho Obama's people are violating the law thru selective enforcement.   Therefore, since the chain of command goes up, under your hypothis, Obama should be held for impeachment and the entire Homeland Security and other departments like Justice should be prosecuted.   Not gonna happen either.   Nor am I saying it should.   Even Congress said that this law impliments the deisres and wishes of congress and doesn't conflict.   And as pointed out, the judge failed to consider both sides of the argument and I am quite sure SCOTUS will hold the law constitutional and slap the fingers of the 9th circuit and the District court.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 12:06:58 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Specifically it doesn't.

FINALLY.

Laws that allow/encourage harassment of law abiding people are intolerable. And in the USA they are simply not allowed.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 3:48:07 PM   
KenDckey


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This is a copy of 8 U.S.C. § 1357(g)(10) that Arizona is implementing.   It applies to every state.  Arizona added a requirement for its officer to have reasonable suspecion as the trigger for "investigation" in 8 U.S.C. § 1357(g)(1) I believe.   I don't see anything about harassing law abiding people.   All along we are talking about illegal people.   Investigation is the way they solve all crime that I know of.  The way you investigate is to ask questions.   Where is that harassing?  Where do you see a reference to law abiding peoples?   Illegal Aliens definately don't meet that standard. 

And don't get me wrong.  My daughter-in-law was an illegal, brought to this country as a child.  Under the previous amnesty laws she became a resident alien with a green card.   My Grand daughter now holds three citizenships until she decides which one applies to her.   Her mother was Mexican.   Dad is US Citizen serving in Italy.   She was born in Italy (which her grandmother is a citizen of)   But she is legal and a minor so who cares.   And just for fun, My ex was african (born in Asmara, Eritriea) of Italian parents.   My son had his choices as well.

Anyway I get off topic.   I would be the first to have turned my daughter in law into the authorities if she were illegal when I first knew  her. 


(g) Performance of immigration officer functions by State officers and employees (1) Notwithstanding section 1342 of title 31, the Attorney General may enter into a written agreement with a State, or any political subdivision of a State, pursuant to which an officer or employee of the State or subdivision, who is determined by the Attorney General to be qualified to perform a function of an immigration officer in relation to the investigation, apprehension, or detention of aliens in the United States (including the transportation of such aliens across State lines to detention centers), may carry out such function at the expense of the State or political subdivision and to the extent consistent with State and local law. (2) An agreement under this subsection shall require that an officer or employee of a State or political subdivision of a State performing a function under the agreement shall have knowledge of, and adhere to, Federal law relating to the function, and shall contain a written certification that the officers or employees performing the function under the agreement have received adequate training regarding the enforcement of relevant Federal immigration laws. (3) In performing a function under this subsection, an officer or employee of a State or political subdivision of a State shall be subject to the direction and supervision of the Attorney General. (4) In performing a function under this subsection, an officer or employee of a State or political subdivision of a State may use Federal property or facilities, as provided in a written agreement between the Attorney General and the State or subdivision. (5) With respect to each officer or employee of a State or political subdivision who is authorized to perform a function under this subsection, the specific powers and duties that may be, or are required to be, exercised or performed by the individual, the duration of the authority of the individual, and the position of the agency of the Attorney General who is required to supervise and direct the individual, shall be set forth in a written agreement between the Attorney General and the State or political subdivision. (6) The Attorney General may not accept a service under this subsection if the service will be used to displace any Federal employee. (7) Except as provided in paragraph (8), an officer or employee of a State or political subdivision of a State performing functions under this subsection shall not be treated as a Federal employee for any purpose other than for purposes of chapter 81 of title 5 (relating to compensation for injury) and sections 2671 through 2680 of title 28 (relating to tort claims). (8) An officer or employee of a State or political subdivision of a State acting under color of authority under this subsection, or any agreement entered into under this subsection, shall be considered to be acting under color of Federal authority for purposes of determining the liability, and immunity from suit, of the officer or employee in a civil action brought under Federal or State law. (9) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to require any State or political subdivision of a State to enter into an agreement with the Attorney General under this subsection. (10) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to require an agreement under this subsection in order for any officer or employee of a State or political subdivision of a State— (A) to communicate with the Attorney General regarding the immigration status of any individual, including reporting knowledge that a particular alien is not lawfully present in the United States; or (B) otherwise to cooperate with the Attorney General in the identification, apprehension, detention, or removal of aliens not lawfully present in the United States.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 3:52:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


If liberty is an inalienable right, obtaining papers to travel is tantamount to obtaining permission. Therefore it is unconstitutional. T


Your leaps in "logic" are laughable. Please keep it up, youre the funniest poster here.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 4:39:13 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

This is a copy of 8 U.S.C. § 1357(g)(10) that Arizona is implementing.   It applies to every state.  Arizona added a requirement for its officer to have reasonable suspecion as the trigger for "investigation" in 8 U.S.C. § 1357(g)(1) I believe.   I don't see anything about harassing law abiding people.   All along we are talking about illegal people.   Investigation is the way they solve all crime that I know of.  The way you investigate is to ask questions.   Where is that harassing?  Where do you see a reference to law abiding peoples?   Illegal Aliens definately don't meet that standard. 

First off that is not all the SB 1070 did. Secondly the states don't get to decide how to enforce federal laws.

You seem completely unable to read the law without falling back on propoganda generated by the bigots at FAIR. I strongly urge you to stop doing that and simply read the law as written.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 4:44:05 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Secondly the states don't get to decide how to enforce federal laws.

.



From todays questions there may well be a sentiment on the Court that States CAN indeed enforce STATE laws that mimic Federal laws. And that is the issue, not a state enforcing federal laws without other authority.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/8/2010 5:15:45 PM   
KenDckey


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Oh I agree totally  If states didn't enforce federal law as well as state law, then the entire system falls apart.  that would be a very bad thing for the country.   Ifr the fed is the only one that can enforce federal law they would have to really multiply the size of the federal law enforcement agencies.

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RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/9/2010 6:40:48 AM   
DomKen


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States do not enforce federal law now. That's why we have the FBI, the Secret Service, ICE etc.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/9/2010 9:20:40 AM   
KenDckey


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Hmmmmmm   must be some act out there like posse comitatus that prevents it cause I see LEO's enforcing federal laws all the time.   I am sure the LEO's are gonna like it when they just have to stand around while bank robbers and kidnappers, etc do their deeds.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Next Stop - SCOTUS - SB 1070 - 12/9/2010 11:03:04 AM   
DomKen


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Police respond to bank rooberies in progress because they tend to be hostage situations or involve other violent crimes that are matters of local jurisdiction. If the robbers get away it is the FBI's responsibility to investigate and find the robbers.

Kidnappings are only federal jurisdiction under certain circumstances (primarily the victim is taken across state lines).
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01034.htm

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 58
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