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Sub male pride - 12/4/2010 6:26:37 PM

vancraft

Posts: 71
Joined: 8/4/2010
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467390/Househusband-backlash-high-flying-wives-ditch-men-em-em-wanted-stay-home.html
its not exactly related but this article got me thinking on the idea of a domme/sub male relationship. the idea that the domme will start to resent a guy due to his submissiveness over time and lack of alpha/traditional male role. what i seem to be reading lots is dommes want a male who is submissive to them but dominant socially and everywhere else, alot of sub males have in their profiles something along the lines of "i am submissive but here is why im not actually scum:" and other references to submissive being a purely negative trait.
there seems to be a major lack of "submissive male pride", hell i dont know why i should like traits about myself that make me basically dime a dozen. obviously this a matter of my own soul searching but i dont think i am the only guy out there having these thoughts.
i hope my thoughts are coherent.. it seems as sub we are the shit of the kink world..
so sub/switch guys(or anyone with an opinion on the subject) what makes you ok with being submissive? i seem to be stuck in the negative myself and id love to have such negativity shut up,

help a brotha out..

Post #: 1

RE: Sub male pride - 12/4/2010 7:55:37 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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It works the same on the other side. A lot of men whose wives are at home treat them as second class citizens also. It's a sad thing that making a home and raising your children as opposed to sending them out for ten hours a day is seen as a bad thing. But the stress on the one earning parent is pretty major as well, the constant nagging fear of what could happen if they lose their job which in today's economic climate is a definite possibility.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to vancraft)

Post #: 2

RE: Sub male pride - 12/4/2010 9:03:35 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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hey vancraft

valid question. I have plenty of pride to be on this side of the kneel.
I know there are plenty of submissives that also enjoy humiliation, and get off on the whole "I'm worthless worm scum and I want only to serve this goddess because I'm nothing in the universe and she is everything." Maybe it's all these profiles from Dommes who are into the whole "I'm a goddess/queen/royal rightousness and you must bow down to me due to the mere fact that I've declared myself a Domme in my profile and you are a lowly slave."

that might fit the bill for some...but that's......not me.

I'm a domestic servant--I'm not scum, worthless or less than. On the contrary, I consider myself a highly skilled, highly valuable commodity, and any Domme/Dom would be fortunate to have me at their service. I'm proud of the services I provide, the work I perform and the pain I can withstand. I love serving others and take pride in my abilities to do it well. I've never bought into that whole trip that to be a submissive you also have to believe you're worth less than others. A good slave is not only hard to find, but a valuable treasure.

Maybe it's because I spent so much time in the Lesbian BDSM Community, where as a bottom. I was always made to feel valued.
Mistresses and Masters need us as much as we need them. They do. Without us, they'd have to scrub their own floors, clean their own toilets, shine their own boots, carry their own bags, fetch their own drinks....and they'd have no one to whip.

I won't go all academic on why I believe that submissives are devalued in the community (I personally believe it has deep roots in misogyny).....my suggestion to you is that when those negative tapes kick on, tell yourself,:
"Okay self....I'm shutting off the bad tape.....and putting in the tape that reminds me that a good submissive is worth his weight in gold...I will be the best I can be.... and serve a wonderful Domme who deserves a submissive of my quality and character..."

(in reply to vancraft)

Post #: 3

RE: Sub male pride - 12/4/2010 11:46:55 PM

vancraft

Posts: 71
Joined: 8/4/2010
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I know there are plenty of submissives that also enjoy humiliation, and get off on the whole "I'm worthless worm scum and I want only to serve this goddess because I'm nothing in the universe and she is everything." Maybe it's all these profiles from Dommes who are into the whole "I'm a goddess/queen/royal rightousness and you must bow down to me due to the mere fact that I've declared myself a Domme in my profile and you are a lowly slave."

yeah, there seems to be alot of pressure to have this view to the extreme and not like ones submissiveness, like an odd kinda humiliation fetish is almost required. some of it i think is probly from newer people assuming that this is what d/s is all about (likly influenced by femdom porn/dominatrix stereotypes)

Maybe it's because I spent so much time in the Lesbian BDSM Community, where as a bottom. I was always made to feel valued.

i find that being from gay community and having instances of homo/biphobia in my past tend to influence how these things bug me. i arrive here with some hard fought for pride in my sexuality, then i look around and see what appears to be men beating the shit out of themselves for their sexuality...

i will try to think happy thoughts

. i do think that there may be abit of an issue around these parts with how the adverage sub male thinks of himself tho.

(in reply to hausboy)

Post #: 4

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 2:34:19 AM

pyroaquatic

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
I consider myself a highly skilled, highly valuable commodity, and any Domme/Dom would be fortunate to have me at their service. I'm proud of the services I provide, the work I perform and the pain I can withstand. I love serving others and take pride in my abilities to do it well. I've never bought into that whole trip that to be a submissive you also have to believe you're worth less than others. A good slave is not only hard to find, but a valuable treasure.

Instead of pride can I substitute the word 'JOY'?

As of late I have been getting paid very well for my services without the whole sexual kink aspect of it. Subliminally Vanilla one could say. If someone sets out to make me feel worthless I remove my self from their life. It has taken me far too long to establish my little feelings of validity and value for it to be taken down in thirty minutes.

Let them clean their own damn messes if my needs beyond the basic are not met. I have better things to do than to be treated like crap. Humiliation is not my bag.

I have had so much of that that it no longer affects me.

happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy happy happy happy happy, joy joy joy.

Yay some modicum of independence. err... yeah.

Do not try to place the square pegs in round holes. Unless you have a hammer and will smash the hell out of the pegs. Fit where you belong.

Good Day.

EDITED FOR MUSHYBRAINEDNESS

< Message edited by pyroaquatic -- 12/5/2010 2:35:21 AM >

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
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(in reply to hausboy)

Post #: 5

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 6:15:59 AM

txurinal

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hausboy said it best. When this one was owned it took pride in being a slave. my MASTERS also took pride in owning me as i was a great housekeeper, took a lot of pain, and provided service as required.
We travelled together and i was introduced as THEIR slave. Nothing made me happier to know that i was valued for what i was, a valuable piece of the household.

i was occassionaly loaned out to other MASTERS and not just for sexual services but for domestic services such as bartending, serving at parties, etc. i took pride in the fact THEY trusted me to serve well and reflect back on THEM as to THEIR trust and training of me. And i can "proudly" say, there were never any complaints about me.

i hope one day to be owned again and when (or if) that happens, i will once again be proud to serve as a slave. And yes part of bing a slave means one is always humble and yes sometimes humiliated but always proud to do its best to please.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

Post #: 6

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 7:46:40 AM

shivermetimbers

Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vancraft

there seems to be a major lack of "submissive male pride", hell i dont know why i should like traits about myself that make me basically dime a dozen. obviously this a matter of my own soul searching but i dont think i am the only guy out there having these thoughts.

The only traits that could make a male sub a "dime a dozen" is in the area of play, especially if all he has to offer is his body. But I'm only guessing that from the article you posted, you are referring to those subs who are looking for or are in a relationship as opposed to the dommes and subs who are just play partners.

I know for myself, I pride myself in what I was able to offer outside of that. It makes me unique. I would think that any domme who is looking to have a relationship with a sub, something beyond play, would want some form of "alpha" characteristic, such as being able to hold a steady job. The submissive CEO/hung like a mule and can get it up on command/handsome as the devil/runs in major social power circles type is just as much a fantasy as the uber hot domme that will fulfill every sub's fantasies 24/7.

If you look at what you really bring to the table, I think you might chance seeing yourself in a different light. Do you have a good steady job? Do you have some basic talents, even if they seem everyday mundane? Can you do a little more with the computer than the average person? Sing or play an instrument? A skilled trade? A unique hobby? I have a knowledge of basic house repairs, plumbing/ wiring, gardening, automotive repairs. What I can't do for myself, I'm also very discerning in finding the most economical person to do what I can't. I learn from everything that happens. Not to mention I have a portable job, and pull down a nice wage. That doesn't make me a classic alpha male, but it makes me able to be very particular about who I gave myself to. And that is quite an alpha trait in itself.

I learned from a mistake I made back almost 4 years ago, I am worth so much, that I'm more of a catch than I gave myself credit for. I bet if you sat down and really went over the whole package of what you bring to the table, you would be able to see where you can stand out amongst the crowd. I don't know if you are just making an assumption that male subs in general have a lack of pride or if you were referring only to yourself. I know for myself, I have plenty of pride in what I am, and also what I provide.

_____________________________

I love you Deanna, you make every day a better day.

If we descended from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3CJi0Ih9s&feature=player_embedded

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(in reply to vancraft)

Post #: 7

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 10:43:16 AM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: txurinal

hausboy said it best. When this one was owned it took pride in being a slave. my MASTERS also took pride in owning me as i was a great housekeeper, took a lot of pain, and provided service as required.
We travelled together and i was introduced as THEIR slave. Nothing made me happier to know that i was valued for what i was, a valuable piece of the household.

i was occassionaly loaned out to other MASTERS and not just for sexual services but for domestic services such as bartending, serving at parties, etc. i took pride in the fact THEY trusted me to serve well and reflect back on THEM as to THEIR trust and training of me. And i can "proudly" say, there were never any complaints about me.

i hope one day to be owned again and when (or if) that happens, i will once again be proud to serve as a slave. And yes part of bing a slave means one is always humble and yes sometimes humiliated but always proud to do its best to please.

AbsolutelyTXU. I couldn't agree more! Nothing made me happier than to hear a Domme tell my Domme what a good boy she had, and on those occasions when I was loaned out to others, I saw it as a privilege that I was trusted enough to represent my Domme in the House of another. I always felt that my work was a reflection not only of myself, but of my Domme and her Household.

After any discipline session with my current Household, Sir will sit me on his lap, give me a hug and tell me what a good boy I am. Even if I'm in tears from a hard paddling/caning, those words remind me that he appreciates me, and it makes it all worthwhile.

(in reply to txurinal)

Post #: 8

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 11:27:43 AM

YSG

Posts: 1001
Joined: 8/6/2010
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I think its hard for male submissives to feel proud of who they are because of the fact that we are pretty far out of what society considers "normal". That being said, I am proud of who I am. I think it takes alot of balls to submit, and to openly admit that submissiveness.

As for the story you posted, here is a little pearl of wisdom I have picked up over the years: Every single person on this planet, regardless of age, gender, culture, sexuality, etc., has the ability to be a complete and total bitch/bastard. How you deal with it, though, is up to you. Personally, over the last year or so, Ive just kept people, especially women, at an arms length emotionally. because Im sick of being betrayed.

I think it is very, very easy for a dominant to take a submissive, and what we do, for granted. Ive always wondered, what would happen if we somehow managed to organize a full-scale submissive strike? I think most dominants out there, both male and female, would get the message that we should not be taken for granted, and that we wont put up with it.

_____________________________

Our duty is to hold ourselves responsible to the people. Every word, every act and every policy must conform to the people's interests, and if mistakes occur, they must be corrected - that is what being responsible to the people means- Mao Zedong

(in reply to hausboy)

Post #: 9

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 11:48:09 AM

Atropos19

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Joined: 8/3/2006
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I think it depends on where you're coming from. Some guys probably have the fantasy of being told to "get down and lick my boot, boy!" And for those guys, such treatment/behavior probably isn't demeaning, because that's what "floats their boat," as it were. Other guys are simply worshipful of women (or whatever gender they happen to be attracted, or wish to be submissive to), and those guys would probably balk at such treatment. So for them it's a matter of finding a partner who is looking for a real relationship, as opposed to someone (like a pro or financial domme) who either specifically gets off on demeaning/humiliating people, or caters to those who desire such treatment, for monetary purposes.

In my own case (as it says on my profile), I'm simply deferential toward women by nature. I've read books and tried to teach myself to be confident and dominant and a "take charge" type, but that's just not me. I finally got tired of trying to learn how to "fake it," so now I'm searching for someone who (hopefully) can appreciate me for the traits I do have, rather than those I lack.

(in reply to YSG)

Post #: 10

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 1:12:52 PM

txurinal

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Joined: 9/26/2009
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Atropos19 - You make a good point. If i were ordered to get down and lick boots, not only would this not be demeaning to me but i would make every effort to do it and do it well. Even a slave can take pride in its work.

i take pride in serving a Dominant. Now i am gay and have occassionally served a MISTRESS. Even though i was not (for lack of a better word) "into serving females" again as a proud male slave, i do my best to please and prove to all what a good slave can be and i am always proud to be a slave. i take pride in my position whether cleaning a toilet or being used as one and never find service demeaning

(in reply to Atropos19)

Post #: 11

RE: Sub male pride - 12/5/2010 9:11:57 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Atropos19

I think it depends on where you're coming from. Some guys probably have the fantasy of being told to "get down and lick my boot, boy!" And for those guys, such treatment/behavior probably isn't demeaning, because that's what "floats their boat," as it were. Other guys are simply worshipful of women (or whatever gender they happen to be attracted, or wish to be submissive to), and those guys would probably balk at such treatment. So for them it's a matter of finding a partner who is looking for a real relationship, as opposed to someone (like a pro or financial domme) who either specifically gets off on demeaning/humiliating people, or caters to those who desire such treatment, for monetary purposes.

In my own case (as it says on my profile), I'm simply deferential toward women by nature. I've read books and tried to teach myself to be confident and dominant and a "take charge" type, but that's just not me. I finally got tired of trying to learn how to "fake it," so now I'm searching for someone who (hopefully) can appreciate me for the traits I do have, rather than those I lack.

Hi Atropos-
As Txurinal said, while the act of submission may be viewed by some as demeaning--and even the example you gave may rub some the wrong way--the real difference lies between the ears of the submissive...and the Dominant. There are those Dommes/Doms who believe that they are superior beings to the lowly subs that serve them.....and fortunately....there are subs that believe that they are indeed less worthy and are more than happy to fulfill that role....and voila. a match!

My point was to respond to the OP's original post--that there are plenty of subs who do not feel unequal or less than, and Dommes/Doms who feel the same way. (and obviously they are more compatible in that regards) It goes back to the bigger picture that you cannot paint us all with the same brush, sub or Domme/Dom.

A little side story:
Many years ago, I took a job as an Executive Assistant. I learned that in the world of Executives, having a male assistant gave one more of a social status than a female one--there was this strange undercurrent that the man in charge had achieved some feat of having another man in his service. I did everything for my Executive--from cleaning up his coffee station every morning to high level executive decisions made on his behalf. I knew his personal business--protected his reputation--handled all of his professional affairs--and did everything and anything he asked. [Think Devil Wears Prada except with someone kind and benevolent]

Many of the other assistants that I met often felt that they were not important, that they were of a lower class. Pity. My Executive made me feel as though as I was the most important person in the entire place, and he treated me like a king. Occasionally visitors would look down on me and treat me rudely, and I was always proud when my boss made sure they knew that I was to be treated with the same level of respect that he received. It wasn't ego--I didn't get too big for my britches, I simply had a lot of pride in the work I performed, and the self-esteem to know that the work I did was valuable and appreciated. He told me that I was the best assistant he had ever had--and between us, I know that it was my submissive training that enabled me to perform in my job so well.

edited for typos

< Message edited by hausboy -- 12/5/2010 9:13:00 PM >

(in reply to Atropos19)

Post #: 12

RE: Sub male pride - 12/6/2010 10:59:18 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vancraft
the idea that the domme will start to resent a guy due to his submissiveness over time and lack of alpha/traditional male role.

Uh....that's a silly idea, and a bit insulting. If I wanted an alpha/traditional male, then I wouldn't have gone looking for the submissive genderbent pansexual one that I actually did want and can happily live with. I could not live with an alpha/traditional male, we would be like two bulls in a china shop, and I am not attracted to that type at all. Why would I resent a guy for not being something I emphatically do not want?

Basically you're saying that a dominant woman doesn't actually know what she wants, or that she secretly wants an alpha male type even though she won't admit it. That seems kind of creepy and misogynistic to me.

_____________________________

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(in reply to vancraft)

Post #: 13

RE: Sub male pride - 12/6/2010 11:09:48 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Hausboy... I suspect your XO didn't diss you BECAUSE you were male. Just an idea from someone who has been in the trenches...

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Post #: 14

RE: Sub male pride - 12/6/2010 1:56:25 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Hausboy... I suspect your XO didn't diss you BECAUSE you were male. Just an idea from someone who has been in the trenches...

Certainly possible, although he was one of the few that knew I'm a transgendered man. (my drivers license still read female at the time I was hired/had to fill out the paperwork) I definitely felt the vibe when all the Executives would get together....there was this really bizarre competitiveness about who had the best assistant--almost like we were executive trophies. And I remember overhearing one of the female executives mentioning to my boss how he was so lucky to have found "that rare gem....a STRAIGHT male assistant..."

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 15

RE: Sub male pride - 12/6/2010 6:02:21 PM

vancraft

Posts: 71
Joined: 8/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: vancraft
the idea that the domme will start to resent a guy due to his submissiveness over time and lack of alpha/traditional male role.

Basically you're saying that a dominant woman doesn't actually know what she wants, or that she secretly wants an alpha male type even though she won't admit it. That seems kind of creepy and misogynistic to me.

if you had bothered reading the rest of my post you would have noted me saying this is a negative view that i do not like and was looking for reassurance/positive views, so basicly i ask for help and get called misogynistic and creepy....

for the record no i dont think every woman wants to be happy little submissive housewife or whatever, the point of me making this thread was to hear positive experiences of men in femdom relationships and what they enjoy about their orientations and how it is a positive thing for them.

Edited to not be mean

< Message edited by vancraft -- 12/6/2010 6:24:32 PM >

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

Post #: 16

RE: Sub male pride - 12/6/2010 6:38:10 PM

LadyRian

Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline

Personally speaking, I would be so incredibly thrilled to find a submissive partner who took pride in his submission, serving me lovingly and well.

I definitely don't want him to be dominant in society and everywhere else. I'm dominant in society and everywhere else. I might see something like that as competition, and I wouldn't like that. End of relationship.

I read the article, Op, and at the end, I was shaking my head, thinking, "Where can I find a man like that? She disrespected him? What a fool."

A man like that I would treasure.

_____________________________

"Dodging bullets since 2010"

(in reply to vancraft)

Post #: 17

RE: Sub male pride - 12/6/2010 9:17:09 PM

femdomlover72

Posts: 51
Joined: 7/2/2010
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I am glad you started this thread vancraft. While I have fantasized about being a submissive for many years, it has only been recently that I have had the opportunity to express it for real. Until recently I did not think I was really submissive. Now that I know I am, and have accepted it, I have been searching myself for what this means about who I am. I mean, should I act like I am beneath my Mistress? I certainly feel she is better than me, but that said I have alot of pride in who I am. I like to be verbally humiliated, but deep inside I hope my Mistress does not really believe all that she says to me. One day, at my prompting, she began to put me down, she called me a "worthless piece of shit", but then she quickly said that I was not really. To tell you the truth, that stuck with me, and it makes me feel good that she cares enough to say that. I feel like I am supposed to grovel as a slave, and I do enjoy doing that for my Mistress, but I really do like myself. I have come a long damn way in life, and I am proud of that. At the same time I have this strong urge to submit, sometimes it feels like this pride in myself and my submissiveness clash, but I think it is because I am viewing it the wrong way. I am not ashamed of it, but I feel like I have just opened a door to a new world and I don't really know how to take it all in. I really love being a slave though. I mean I get to know my Mistress in a way that few men ever will, and I feel very lucky for that. I agree with those who say we are valuable. How many true submissives are out there? Maybe I am wrong, but I bet we're not in great abundance. You know, I am submissive, but I will never view myself as scum, or that there is something wrong with me. I don't think "alpha" males are any better than submissive males. This is just the way we are, and if serving makes you happy, do it with pride. Enjoy yourself for who you are, and screw anyone who judges you or looks down on you for it. I am still learning what it means to be submissive, but I will always like who I am.

< Message edited by femdomlover72 -- 12/6/2010 9:22:06 PM >

(in reply to vancraft)

Post #: 18

RE: Sub male pride - 12/7/2010 8:19:24 AM

LadyRian

Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
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From what I've seen, there is a misconception about submissive males, and that is "A submissive male is a wimp." In my opinion, nothing could be further from the truth.

It takes strength for a man to turn his back on what I consider to be a distinctly flawed social paradigm,to do what his heart tells him is right, and serve his Lady completely. I think both benefit from the arrangement, because in submission, a man is finally allowed to express those aspects of himself that the flawed social paradigm discourages, and can be embraced for who he is.

What do I mean by flawed social paradigm? The popular definition of masculinity which precludes a male showing any of the "Unacceptable, so called Feminine emotions", but encourages the expression of anger, aggressiveness, overweening ambition, competitiveness etc, all which are traditionally referred to as "Masculine".

The "Active principle" is considered to be the "Male" attribute, the "Passive",female.
However, this generalisation does not take into account the fact that people are not all one thing or another, and when people to try to pretzel themselves into a social form which is really wrong for them, and is an uncomfortable fit, it can cause much emotional distress.

Sexism hurts everyone, male and female.

Edited for spelling.

< Message edited by LadyRian -- 12/7/2010 8:22:02 AM >

_____________________________

"Dodging bullets since 2010"

(in reply to femdomlover72)

Post #: 19

RE: Sub male pride - 12/7/2010 8:22:33 AM

Atropos19

Posts: 56
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

For me it's not so much about pride as self-acceptance. Looking back, I realize that, in the one serious relationship I've had, I was totally submissive. I may not have called it that, and there may not have been whips and chains involved (LoL), but we went where she wanted to go, did what she wanted to do, when she wanted me to buy her something (or drive her somewhere) I did, if we had a fight or a disagreement *I* was the one who had to apologize and beg forgiveness (none of that touchy-feely compromise stuff you see on Dr. Phil), and if she felt like picking up the phone and talking to me on a certain day, she did... and if she didn't, she didn't, LoL. Basically, the relationship was conducted on her time, on her terms, all the time. And for the most part, I was okay with that. (Would've liked a little more consistency on her part, though... )

The thing is... when you go out and start trying to learn how to be "successful with women," everybody basically tells you the same thing... be confident, be assertive, be cocky, take charge, don't be lovey-dovey or a "wuss" or show your feelings too soon, yada yada yada. So I spent years trying to cultivate those qualities, all the while despising what I saw as my own "weakness," and it was all for naught. I'm no more of an alpha male now than I was ten years ago, LoL.

So basically, my interest in the lifestyle now is an effort to sort of do the opposite, to explore the more submissive side of my nature and see if there might be something there to be embraced and developed, rather than trying to "awaken" all these supposedly slumbering dominant tendencies. I'm trying not to be ashamed of who I am (though society doesn't make that easy), but I don't know if I'm there yet. Maybe "pride" will come somewhere later down the line, LoL.

(in reply to femdomlover72)

Post #: 20

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