Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:42:42 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
I was merely pointing out that the term anti-Semitism as it is used today most often includes anti-Jewish sentiment, anti-Israelism and anti-Zionism all bundled together in a handy bite sized package. I believe I have sufficiently backed up the claim.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:47:11 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
Of course you do. That doesn't make you correct though. This is from Brtiannica Online.


anti-Semitism, hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious or racial group. The term anti-Semitism was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns underway in central Europe at that time. Although this term now has wide currency, it is a misnomer, since it implies a discrimination against all Semites. Arabs and other peoples are also Semites, and yet they are not the targets of anti-Semitism as it is usually understood. The term is especially inappropriate as a label for the anti-Jewish prejudices, statements, or actions of Arabs or other Semites. Nazi anti-Semitism, which culminated in the Holocaust, had a racist dimension in that it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristics—even those who had themselves converted to other religions or whose parents were converts. This variety of anti-Jewish racism dates only to the emergence of so-called “scientific racism” in the 19th century and is different in nature from earlier anti-Jewish prejudice

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:54:39 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
Which makes anyone who dares to say what a minority of powerful Israelis do to another culture/religion is wrong is therefore an anti semite. This effectively silences opposition and allows injustice to carry on without opposition.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:12:44 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I was merely pointing out that the term anti-Semitism as it is used today most often includes anti-Jewish sentiment, anti-Israelism and anti-Zionism all bundled together in a handy bite sized package. I believe I have sufficiently backed up the claim.

In fact you haven't backed it up at all.

D- must try harder.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:25:20 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
I have a teatise on this, would you like it ?

T

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:33:22 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
Sure. Is it or can you upload it as a torrent on the Piratebay or on another torrentsite where it for a lay person is easily downloadable?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:39:02 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
Maybe you guys should trot on over to Stormfront and have this discussion amongst more of your peers. 

~stef


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:41:37 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
I'd love to hear what you have, Termyn8or.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:44:56 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
Possibly some book by Antony Sutton. If I recall correctly, he investigated the financing of the Third Reich by USA bankers.

eta: Antony Sutton - Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler

< Message edited by Rule -- 12/5/2010 3:46:26 PM >

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 3:54:18 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Imperial Russia (back when Pogroms were fashionable and there was still a pale of civilisation beyond which the cut weren't allowed) and the French and German cities where all of the Jewish populations were exterminated during the crusades are all in Europe, I'd say that Europe has quite a bit to do with it, myself.



Oops.  I forgot the European anti-Semitism when I tried to break up anti-Semitism in periods.  You're right, Moonhead, but I have no idea where the European sentiment you mentioned, emanated from.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 4:31:31 PM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Jaybeee, I like most of the other forum regulars, am from the US.  You're from Britain, so I imagine that your everyday experiences may be different.


Well, I'm not sure what difference it makes, but for what it's worth, the elderly chap I referred to above is an American resident here in London.

quote:

The Arab anti-Israel sentiment I do not consider anti-Semitism because it is aimed at the Jewish state itself rather than all Jews. I think of it as mostly envy from a group of failed states that squander their petrodollars on consumer luxuries for the upper class rather than building an infrastructure or serious industrial capacity. It's temptiong to think of this as a bunch of weak states being bullied by a strong one, until you realize that Israel has consistently developed its workforce and leads the world in patents per capita, while its enemies have deliberately chosen to not compete.


I rather think of Israel as a technically advanced, but nonetheless small nation surrounded by large hostiles. Most of the governments of Syria and Saudi would have liked nothing better than to reduce Israel to a pile of smoking radioactive hazmat, and they alone outnumber Israel 5-1 in population. Iran outnumbers Israel 10-1, as does Egypt.

And it's Egypt that is actually Israel's worst fear, not Iran. Egypt is eminently well suited geographically (as well as in any other way) to strike Israel, and if the unthinkable nuclear attack were ever to occur, Israel would be unable to retaliate as the cross-winds blow west to east, and the radioactive clouds would pass back over Israel. So she has had to forge good relationships with her huge neighbour to the west, at least, the least hostile of relations.

So my sympathies go to Israel for her predicament - I've also asked my Jewish friends why on God's earth the Jews didn't accept the offer of Madagascar, thousands of miles from any front line, thousands of miles of lovely warm beaches, thousands of square miles of fertile land - the list goes on. "We weren't promised Madagascar - we were promised ISRAEL!", was the staunch reply. Not knocking Eilat here, in fact I'll be visiting there soon, but to a NON-Jew like myself - the choice between a small, cramped, dusty, embattled corner of the middle east with few natural resources vs a huge tropical island with likely vast amounts of undiscovered natural assets - it's a no-brainer.

But going back to anti-Semitism, I do feel people need to get to know Jews, to simply understand that although they are of a model minority (as am I, just not the same one), they aren't out to dominate the world. And frankly, even if they WERE, from those I know, I would be hard pressed to elect better management.

_____________________________

Mastery in motion since 2005

Women of the world, submit!

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 4:40:32 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
<snipped>
I've also asked my Jewish friends why on God's earth the Jews didn't accept the offer of Madagascar, thousands of miles from any front line, thousands of miles of lovely warm beaches, thousands of square miles of fertile land - the list goes on. "We weren't promised Madagascar - we were promised ISRAEL!", was the staunch reply.

Nope!  What the Jews were promised was Jerusalem.

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

10 fluffy points
50 nz points

Member: VAA's posse

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 4:48:21 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I have no idea where the European sentiment you mentioned, emanated from.

I dunno about the Crusades. I never investigated genocide on Jews during the Crusades.

Russian pogroms? I did investigate those...

You know, I deplore these and other genocides, they sicken me. Yet it is the function of predators to keep the herd and ecosystems healthy and they do so implacably, true to their nature. But it is so easy to reduce their activity: stop circumcising and decrease the size of the (world) population by birth control.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 5:46:39 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

... it'll be those damn Vulcans people hate.



live long and prosper



Trekkies, expert masturbators who've never kissed a girl.

"Live long and prosper", well, they'll never have to worry about contracting a Venereal Disease, will they?
And of course they'll prosper, rent is cheap living in the man cave with Mom and Pop.


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 9:01:49 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
OK

Step right up.

People are nasty, I mean everybody. Almost. Jews have been singled out because they are quite intelligent and do well financially and in other ways. People have a tendency to group people together, sound familiar ? Some Jews are nasty, they find one and figure the whole lot of them are dirty. Thus they had pogroms all over Europe.

Whatever bigotry I may have held in the past is gone due to thinking it out. I think the Jews have a slightly superior intellect and that is due to their upbringing starting from a very early age. This is not much unlike my own past. Games and bullshit are put in their place, and the important things are taught. This is from limited knowledge, but it shows. They are not stupid.

So in doing well, they end up engaged in a class war whether they like it or not. Whether they caused it or not is up for debate [actually maybe right here in this thread]. People in general tend to think in terms of have and have not, comparing all the time and falling into the jealousy hole, which is a trap.

The bigotry really is poison, but people seem to love poison. Remembering that this is one Man's opinion only based on my life experience I can say a few things. They value knowledge. Knowledge is power. I know this intimately, as do they. I didn't turn this into a war though. The fact is that Jews do well in business and it is a trait no less than Orientals coming to this country and excelling at math and certain areas of technology.

In doing well in a given society of course they find their way into government quite a bit. Then they are blamed for almost alll of that society's ills, regardless of their influence in any given case. The word is scapegoat. Of course some scapegoats are guilty of something, just not what is alleged totally.

My take on the whole situation is thus. Even if Jews were responsible for many ills, all of them even, it is those who sell out who are to blame. Remember the words "EVEN IF" before you decide to burn me at the stake.

What is the stereotypical perception of Jews ? Greed. For most people this is enough to create a new front in the ongoing class war. This was the impetus for most of the pogroms, and for many other things. Many, fundamentalist Christians for example, see Jew as ones who caused the crucifixion of their saviour, forgetting conveniently that he was also a Jew. But the incidence of demonization is then extant. Once that happens no argument will suffice.

There are dirty, nasty Jews just like there are dirty nasty Moslems, Christians, Buddists, Italians, dogs and cats, whatever. But when you get a few examples to hold up for show, the whole species or race is "demonized". Any bad act is the impetus to get the rope or the gun, and any good act is seen as a ploy to garner trust, to be used at a later time for some nefarious purpose. This does not just apply to Jews either. No matter the venue, they are effectively "profiled". If there are ten Outer Mongolians in the country and three of them are caught bombing buildings, the other seven had better live exemplary lives.

The tribal instinct in mankind is not all that unlike the pack mentality in animals. This has caused uncounted wrong thruoughout human history. My religion is better than your's, my race is better than your's. Ever hear of war ?

Jews have a certain place in the whole grand plan. Some, like Abe Foxman want to hide their uniqueness and be somehow hidden in plain sight. And then for example Ariel Sharon would broadcast it from every mountaintop due to his hubris.

But then there is another factor, the masses are easily encouraged at times. And facts drive it, whether they are misconstrued or not is not part of this at the moment. Look at Hitler for example. In that country you needed a wheelbarrel full of money to buy a postage stamp or a loaf of bread. Jews were found to have offsahore bank accounts and gold teeth. This is fact, however people engage in post hoc ergo propter hoc thinking and figure if we are so poor and they are so rich they must've stolen it. In some cases they did, but not in all. Hitler turned that country into damnear a superpower, and he did not do it by getting rid of the Jews. Far from it. Look at who was in the Manhatten project. He could've had those people instead of us, and may have prevailed. Instead, Jews provided a convenient stepping stone for his rise to power. Think of it and it is mind blowing, the ramifications of such a happenstance.

I do however, take exception to the term "antisemite" as it is used today. The Jews are not the only Semites, and other Semites seem to be their worst enemy now. Just like many people think of the USA as the whole of America. This country is the USA, which resides on the CONTINENT of America, North America to be specific.

As people know, public perception is up for grabs. We have been lied to, and the thing is, can anyone stand there and tell me that we have never been lied to before ? Can't, can you. And there is another facet of our wonderful "humanity", that is in the absence of enemies we invent them.

I've seen so much, almost nothing is unconcievable.
______________________________________________________________________

I saved that from earlier. What do you respect ? I respect abaility, talent and so forth. I respect some of my very few enemies. Jews are not my enemy, at least not as a whole. Would I like to shove the barrell of my .38 uop Ariel Sharon's nose ? Fuck yeah. But it's not because he is a Jew. In fact he's probably a Zionist which is a bit different but he chose his lot. The point is with me anyway, it's not what he is but how he is. That mothwerfucker has one hell of an attitude that is in severe need of adjustment, same with Foxman. The Jews who fucked up our economy are not nice folk either.

But Corty is OK. I used to work with him. We agreed on alot of different shit, but he didn't like being thrown into the same boat with other Jews. Neither did Yisroel Wiess. People are people.

I buitch about Jews all day long, but really not. It is their leadetrs who need to get jacked in a dark alley somewhere. But then of course we have our "leaders" as well, who equally need to be jacked in a dark alley somewhere. So even they have a class war.

And none of us can get out of the clas war. That is fact. Of course we know that most of the US media is controlled by Jews, and as such there is a slant in the news and whatever. If you are not a Jew, and you have this power to influence people, can you honestly say that you would not avail yourself of that opportunity ? Cut the fucking shit, you know damn well you would.

Opinion results more from perception than reality. Welcome to Earth, third rock from the sun.

There are nasty, mean motherfucker of the Jewish persuasion, but then some of them are really cool. Rich motherfuckers are usually alot less "cool". In that way they are no different than anyone else. In time they will be sifted. The good and the bad. Just like everyone else, and it won't be another Hitler to do it, it will be universal, and Jews will not be the only ones in the ovens. And no9t all Jews will be in the ovens. Once things really get straightened out, there will be found no race or creed that is better or worse than another.

What would I say to the Germans ? You assholes let this happen. You know what, some could say that to us right here in the US.

Still a class war. I.G. Farben, OK, what about that family in Texas who when ordered by congress to list all their assets topld them to go fuck off ? Class in this context is not what many think, toi simplifiy, it is money. Maybe Jews are a bit better at getting money, but do you demonize Bill Gates or that other guy ? Do you demonize me ? I live almost comfortably working part time, less than 20 hours a week. I inherited some, and slick legal maneuvers will let me keep the shit for free. I am sticking it to the Man. Your tax dollars bailed out the banks, who I am now fucking out of a nice little pile of cash. Does that offend you ? It used to offend me until I saw how things are. At one time I was totally fucking honest with everybody, not any more.

Fuck them. I don't mean Jews I just mean them. Who are they ? When you pay seventy five bucks for license plates who gets the money ? THEY do. THEY are not all Jews. It is illogical to think so. The THEY is here and taking. And we the sheeple are supposed to believeit is Jews and get a pogrom going. Well I ain't playin'.

You all, of any faith, creed or whatever are a bunch of lowdown scou8ndrels, and so am I.

And fuck the Jews, and fuck the Piss Co palians, and the Catlicks as well. We are all shit. Live with it. I wish I knew more Jews, start really talking shit with them you can get some good ideas. Why ? Because they know how to think.

T

Note this is unproofed.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 9:30:30 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
<snipped>
I've also asked my Jewish friends why on God's earth the Jews didn't accept the offer of Madagascar, thousands of miles from any front line, thousands of miles of lovely warm beaches, thousands of square miles of fertile land - the list goes on. "We weren't promised Madagascar - we were promised ISRAEL!", was the staunch reply.

Nope!  What the Jews were promised was Jerusalem.


To put that in perspective, for centuries, Jews have said "Next year in Jerusalem!" at the conclusion of the Passover service.  In other words, being able to live THERE has been our goal all that time.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 10:23:16 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
<snipped>
I've also asked my Jewish friends why on God's earth the Jews didn't accept the offer of Madagascar, thousands of miles from any front line, thousands of miles of lovely warm beaches, thousands of square miles of fertile land - the list goes on. "We weren't promised Madagascar - we were promised ISRAEL!", was the staunch reply.

Nope!  What the Jews were promised was Jerusalem.


New International Version, ©2010

Genesis 15:18-21
On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

Genesis 28:13
There above it stood the LORD, and he said: “I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.


Exodus 23:31
“I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the desert to the Euphrates River. I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 10:25:42 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites.

I would posit that it's not primarily a "right wing" fetish at all.

In fact, I suspect it's more a "left wing" thing.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 11:07:47 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them...

In the US, there is no more ardent supporter of Israel than the Christian Right. It's an "End of Days" thing.

K.

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/6/2010 12:09:04 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
"On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said,...."

You got your finger right on it.

I'm writing a book. I think I'll call it "Whatever".

In it, the LORD says I should be dictator of the world.

He goes on to say that I soleley own the Earth, down to the last blade of grass.

I have as much proof as anyone.

T

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109