RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long?

RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 12:49:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said,...." You got your finger right on it. I'm writing a book. I think I'll call it "Whatever". In it, the LORD says I should be dictator of the world. He goes on to say that I soleley own the Earth, down to the last blade of grass. I have as much proof as anyone. T Whatever. The point is that the Jewish claim to the area is about 5000 years old. Firm

tweakabelle -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 2:12:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites. I would posit that it's not primarily a "right wing" fetish at all. In fact, I suspect it's more a "left wing" thing. Firm Historically racism has always been associated with right wing causes. Especially so given their propensity to base their claims in nationalism, 'patriotic' jingoism or really silly notions such as racial purity. The idea that it's a left wing thing is relatively recent AFAIK and prolly related to the left's intense dislike of Israeli behaviour. This might more accurately be described as anti-Zionism than anti-Semitism, which I believe most leftists would reject. In most countries you will find leftists at the fore of anti-racist politics and campaigns. There may be exceptions but I can't think of any offhand. Oddly enough as I skimmed all the posts before composing this, I failed to notice the word "ignorance". Usually I find there is a relationship between ignorance and any irrational phobia such as racism or anti-Semitism. Fear and powerlust are usually present too.

Termyn8or -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 2:28:09 AM)
My point is different. The existence of Israel is based on getting rid of the Palestinians. The country isn't big enough for the both, at least that's how it seems. We have to get out of this mentality. We took the land in the US, unjustly. So fucking what ? Yuo wanna argue all day about who lived here fifty fucking thousand years ago or something ? Fuck all that. Jews use others, and I am not pointing a finger because I do it as well. Interaction is good. But the situation with the rathole they all want over there is a bunch of shit. First of all, they won, by whatevwer means they won. Kill the people who have a problem with it, just like we did here. Be done with it. I really am sorry for the Palestinians but also for the Mayans, the Incas, a whole bunch of them. The Jews won, get over it. Don't drag this shit out for 100 fuckin years. Anti anything is based on insecurity. Normal folk find out these people are smart as fuck, they begin to fear. But I have no such fear. First of all even when outmatched physically I avoid letting fear into the arena. I have to think to win, and have no time for such a distraction. What's more I know enough. The other day I outlined about a half dozen ways to commit a terrorist act without even walking out my door. I probably would be better off not providing details out here in the open forum eh ? Enough for now. T

Aneirin -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 4:02:39 AM)
A line I picked up from the movie Avatar. It's the oldest trick in the book, someone is sitting on something you want, make them your enemy so you can kill them and get what you want. Usually before that happens the antagonist tries asking, bribing and offers of moving elsewhere, that fails, they become your enemy.

Termyn8or -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 4:30:42 AM)
Haven't seen it. Probably shouldn't either. I finally got my mind clear of Hollywood shit, why fuck it up again now ? He who is strong enough to take takes. There are VERY few exceptions. Really I thuink the Jews are a bunch of motherfuckers, but then, so am I. Should I hate myself ? This could become a huge argument if we don't watch it. In Mr. Foxman's words "sensitive issues". But I am not listening to any of the shit. Incidentally do you know who founded the NAACP ? You can't win with the old ways, that has been proven. See it for the class war that it is and then start thinking. Get a big big oven, and it's not just for Jews. T

Aneirin -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 4:44:14 AM)
Think Emerald Forest and Fern Gully on a fictional planet in space, same sort of story, corporate human greed shitting on local life, same story as everything greed related. The story linked to the directors personal cause, the deforestation of the Amazon rain forest by corporate interests. Very lavish and a technological break through and very earth mother sort of thing.

Moonhead -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 5:54:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I have no idea where the European sentiment you mentioned, emanated from. I dunno about the Crusades. I never investigated genocide on Jews during the Crusades. Google Wurms and Rouen for a start. I think those are the two most famous cases of crusaders pausing en route to the holy land for a bit of jew bashing. In Wurms, all of the jews who refused to convert were murdered. Not quite the holocaust, but pretty bloody vile behaviour from people who were supposedly on their way to liberate the holy land...

Edwynn -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 6:12:06 AM)
But that was a practice already in place long before the crusades. Charlemagne comes to mind, but there were others besides him that mass murdered people for declining the offer of Christianity. By the time it was applied to Jews in particular the precedent and the practice were well established.

Moonhead -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 6:17:23 AM)
Very true. It goes back a lot further than the crusades, To be honest, I just made a point of mentioning that purely because foreskin boy was blathering about there not being any cultural history of antisemitism in Europe, which was a mind numbingly stupid thing to say, really. The pausing overnight for a pogrom on the way to the middle east thing is very well documented, and (as DarkSteven says) that's without even getting started on some of the terrible things that happened in eastern Europe and Eurasia...

FirmhandKY -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 7:32:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites. I would posit that it's not primarily a "right wing" fetish at all. In fact, I suspect it's more a "left wing" thing. Firm Historically racism has always been associated with right wing causes. Especially so given their propensity to base their claims in nationalism, 'patriotic' jingoism or really silly notions such as racial purity. Dunno. Here is one left-of-center example. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 7:35:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or My point is different. It seemed that your point was that the Jewish claims were based on a religious text, and since religion is a fairy-tale, then their claim is invalid. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or The existence of Israel is based on getting rid of the Palestinians. Uh, I don't think so. Firm

hertz -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 7:46:07 AM)
My mistake, forget it...

Rule -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 7:54:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hertz OK - So why did my post get deleted? Any ideas, anyone? Was it because I posted something outrageously anti-Semitic? Or what? I dunno. I never saw your post. quote: ORIGINAL: hertz Suggestions? Ask a mod.

Termyn8or -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 11:24:47 AM)
FR Joe South - Games People Play Good song, really. I really shouldn't go here.... How many of the super rich do any of us know ? None. Like a myth they stay in tyhe shadows, why ? Because they would be demonized. Jews fuck up because they get i nto the same position time after time, prime for demonization. Let's face it, the sheeple can't deal with people who have brains. Same old story, fear begets hate and then the demonization. Over and over again. It can happen to anyone. I don't weant to blow my horn, but if I am talking to someone who works tweice as long as I and makes half the money, maybe I should shut the fuck up about it. Makes sense right ? It doesn't matter, those who are prone to hate wioll, even if they have to hate themselves. People look for scapegoats and who better than those who are doing well, or at least better ? Jealousy is like ketchup on your fries, dip on your chip, hot sauce on your wings. I make no bones about it, I know who is fucking this planet up, and why. But it still does not give a reason to hate. People do what they will do. A scorpion bites, a tiger may eat you for lunch. Sharks, well just stay outta their water. It only takes a minor change in thinking to be better than we are, but the crux of the matter is that minor change is one fundamental to our way of thinking. And that is what divides people in the first place. As a species, we are not all that mature. "Look at us, we're everything your Parents ever warned you about". Antisemitism ? Look at US ! T

DCWoody -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 12:17:47 PM)
There are many huge factors, but I reckon it comes down to the combining of race&religion, and the lack of national identity. Not a good mix. I was thinking of a longer reply 'til I read the thread....guess I shoulda expected as much from a jew thread on an american forum.

Jaybeee -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 1:07:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or FR Joe South - Games People Play Good song, really. I really shouldn't go here.... How many of the super rich do any of us know ? None. Like a myth they stay in tyhe shadows, why ? Because they would be demonized. Jews fuck up because they get i nto the same position time after time, prime for demonization. Let's face it, the sheeple can't deal with people who have brains. Same old story, fear begets hate and then the demonization. Over and over again. It can happen to anyone. I don't weant to blow my horn, but if I am talking to someone who works tweice as long as I and makes half the money, maybe I should shut the fuck up about it. Makes sense right ? There's a phrase for that discreet, deliberate understatement practiced by the rich and powerful when talking to those with fewer financial resources and influence. Don't want to blow my horn either, but I've had to be deliberately indirect and brief when chatting to staff who reported in to me. An ex-boss of mine was a millionaire a couple of times over (I credit-checked him before a pay review!!), still came into work every day and rolled his sleeves up with the rest of us wannabe's. It was amazing to watch him come in innocuously dressed every day, listening to him downplay the company's wealth to employees/visitors etc when it came time to purchase new services/equipment, yet I once caught a flash of his post-code on his screen...let's just say Google StreetView is a beautiful thing... :)

tweakabelle -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 1:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites. I would posit that it's not primarily a "right wing" fetish at all. In fact, I suspect it's more a "left wing" thing. Firm Historically racism has always been associated with right wing causes. Especially so given their propensity to base their claims in nationalism, 'patriotic' jingoism or really silly notions such as racial purity. Dunno. Here is one left-of-center example. Firm Fair point. I did say there could be exceptions but I couldn't think of any at the time. Here's another one sometimes cited. The truly odious Milosevic and his pals in Serbia were mostly ex-Communists. Whether it is fair to characterise his Govt and reign as left wing is questionable though. Many people would argue Milosevic's Govt's performance was closer to Fascism than any left wing idea of Govt. So, despite these two examples, I maintain my original position, that historically and generally it's far more of a right wing thing. Definitely so if one considers racism across the English speaking world only. As you point out, to claim it's exclusively a right wing phenomenon is quite incorrect.

Anaxagoras -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 5:38:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites. I would posit that it's not primarily a "right wing" fetish at all. In fact, I suspect it's more a "left wing" thing. Firm The idea that it's a left wing thing is relatively recent AFAIK and prolly related to the left's intense dislike of Israeli behaviour. This might more accurately be described as anti-Zionism than anti-Semitism, which I believe most leftists would reject. In most countries you will find leftists at the fore of anti-racist politics and campaigns. There may be exceptions but I can't think of any offhand. The relationship between Jews and the left is fairly problematic. The left has an inherent hostility toward Israel less to do with any perceived injustice and more to do with its own ideology. European leftist/liberal thought in the Enlightenment era of the 18th/19th Century was far more accepting of Jews than those with religious conservative values but its response to Judaism is today considered anti-Semitic because there was an expectation of Jews to divest themselves of their culture and fully integrate. Some did often to escape prejudice but those that didn't were often treated with contempt, which is reflected in the writings of Kant etc. Leftists never had much time for Zionism or Israel to begin with for it clashed with their values. Lenin disliked the idea of Israel and Trotsky did too until he saw the increasing violence toward Jews in 30’s Europe. Various groups with a lot of influence like the Communist Party of Great Britain demanded in the late 1930's that German Jews fleeing the Third Reich not be allowed to settle in Palestine. Stalin was one of the first to welcome the creation of Israel but soon got involved with the Arab block so he turned 180 degrees. After that hostility towards Israel particularly from the extreme left continued long before the 1967 Six Day war although it varied, with some seeing it as a progressive state with a form of socialism in the form of the kibbutz. It seems that Israel's association with the US particularly from the 1970's harmed its rep in the eyes of the left as did its increasing power and wealth. From that point onward hostility from the left increased exponentially.

Brain -> RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? (12/6/2010 11:20:41 PM)
Yes, ignorance and stupidity. Jews are human beings no different from the rest of us. quote: ORIGINAL: Jaybeee I have several Jewish friends, whom I' ve asked the same question. Their replies ranged from simple "Dunno"'s to "As long as we stay distinct, we will be hated". Perhaps the most interesting theory I heard was from older chap who said, "We prize success and achievement. As long as we are unsuccessful in hiding those traits, we will be resented for them". Though I must say, they sometimes seem victims of their own success, as the press doesn't allow you to disguise your heritage very long. I myself am a Christian but have many good Jewish friends, and I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites. Almost as if it were somewhat perversely chic in certain circles to share an ethos with (arguably) history's most hated man - Hitler.

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