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RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 6:56:12 AM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I'm surprised that nothing else happened

I doubt very much it ever "happened" at all. I've worked security for a couple of clubs in my time (it's not something I used to do as a job, just sometimes help mates out when they were short handed, although the extra cash was nice) and that would get you forcibly removed in seconds flat. It's also the sort of thing security will be looking for as a first sign something's about to kick off, and the chances are that you'd be handed a Grade A, oven-ready battering once they got you outside. Even if it's a BDSM club I can't see it being permitted; if anything, my experience would be it'd be even more frowned on.

So, on balance, I think it's probably a troll or a fantasy. Jaybee sometimes does this when he's bored or in need of a shag (ETA: or a hug

).

If it did actually happen I'd be surprised at Jaybee's assertion he's had "martial arts training" (at least I think that's how it reads from what he's said), as one of the first things that gets beaten out of people when they do MA or MMA is aggression. And lack of self-control*. Or they get thrown out.

*I confess to being a tad "punchy" myself in my youth. A few months of boxing soon knocked that out of me. Literally

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 12/7/2010 7:00:41 AM >

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 61

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 6:59:12 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Then what happened, out of curiosity?

I'm going to guess his alarm clock woke him up.

~stef

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(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 62

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 7:18:58 AM

Darkfeather

Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

This is also to help me break my conditioning not to hit ANY woman - whether she enjoys/agrees to it or not.

I WANT to hit her - it just so happens she wants it too, but that is just a happy coincidence. I want to be CRYSTAL clear on that.

Just curious, why the need to be "CRYSTAL" clear on wanting to slap/hit "ANY woman - whether she enjoys/agrees to it or not"?

I thought this thread was about you and your partner/slave. Could you clarify this a bit?

Oh I think you know, but I'll spell it out nonetheless. I want to hit women. ANY woman, regardless of whether she likes it or not.
But the primary drive for all of this is to begin the long journey of shaking off the conditioning, asserting my authority, and unlocking my inner caveman. Not to satisfy my girlfriend's desire to be physically dominated.

This is something I've been mulling for a few years. A few months ago I got into a discussion with some girl at a club. I was being deliberately obnoxious about whatever topic she was talking about (she was a royal bitch for her part, so I knew she'd make a good candidate for the experiment) and waited until she boiled up to the point where she would slap my face, and I'd slap back.

Then, something in me just snapped. I don't remember what she said to set me off, but my hand flew up, and span her face to one side. The feel of her soft flesh, if only for a fleeting second, was electric. The sound of the slap was like the satisfaction you get when you hear shattering glass. The guys here will know what I'm talking about.

I felt alive...really alive.

Wow, aparently some people do equate violence with dominance. In the same way some people equate rape with sexuality. But my friend, there is absolutely no similarity. Violence is a selfish act. Whatever triggers it, whatever fuels it, whatever sates it, are all personal. You said it yourself, inner caveman. The caveman was not a Dominant, he was savage and territorial. The people in this lifestyle do not revel in our base instincts, in fact we try our darnest to hold them back. It is quite easy to unleash pent up rage and fury on someone you have bound and helpless. But the mark of a true Dominant good sir, is the one who looks past that, and uses what not fuels the self, but what fuels the dynamic.

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 63

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 7:53:16 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I'm surprised that nothing else happened

I doubt very much it ever "happened" at all. I've worked security for a couple of clubs in my time (it's not something I used to do as a job, just sometimes help mates out when they were short handed, although the extra cash was nice) and that would get you forcibly removed in seconds flat. It's also the sort of thing security will be looking for as a first sign something's about to kick off, and the chances are that you'd be handed a Grade A, oven-ready battering once they got you outside. Even if it's a BDSM club I can't see it being permitted; if anything, my experience would be it'd be even more frowned on.

So, on balance, I think it's probably a troll or a fantasy. Jaybee sometimes does this when he's bored or in need of a shag (ETA: or a hug ).

If it did actually happen I'd be surprised at Jaybee's assertion he's had "martial arts training" (at least I think that's how it reads from what he's said), as one of the first things that gets beaten out of people when they do MA or MMA is aggression. And lack of self-control*. Or they get thrown out.

*I confess to being a tad "punchy" myself in my youth. A few months of boxing soon knocked that out of me. Literally

Shame, it would have made a you a more complete individual today.

Well, I didn't want to burst Lady Costanza's bubble (or anyone elses) quite yet, but yeah, I've done a bit of Muay Thai + TSD - my instructor however ran something of a 'black art' Dojang. Yes, when the master (a word I use in the MA, not the BDSM sense) shouts "Gu-maan!" (stop), you damn well better, but he let a lot of sessions go well beyond what is normally considered civil. About a year or 18 months back he retired and left no heir, so sadly those days are gone, and I pretty much drifted out of the MA scene at that point too...

Also, the SIA regs stipulate you have to WITNESS the assault to manhandle a customer out of a club. And although most clubs do indeed have a camera panning around in the corner, it's usually not manned by a human operator, or if it is, he's only likely to be looking at an overview. Having ANY security in a club costs money, and in these times of recession, well I don't have to tell you what corners get cut.

< Message edited by Jaybeee -- 12/7/2010 7:54:53 AM >

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Post #: 64

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:16:00 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

What a shame. This could have been a damn good thread regarding the mental and emotional hurdles that some people have regarding this particular activity. There could have been a fantastic discussion about unlearning the conditioning that some tops need to go through in order to enjoy this activity and the process that can be used to undo the negative connotations that are associated with it to establish it as a thrilling part of a S/m scene. We may have even indulged in if those learned behaviors are stronger in male tops than female ones due to the associations that society has taught us about slapping someone in the face and what barriers we have to cross to get over the difference between an assault on someone and that same activity within a BDSM context.

That all went to shit at post twenty-four, when this no longer became about sadism and masochism. Slapping some random person in a club is nothing but revolting. If that is some people's idea of sadism, they can have it. Personally, I prefer My version, which doesn't cross My set of ethics.

Crazyml, I really enjoyed your contribution to this thread. Clubs on this side of the pond tend to work the same way as you say they do in the UK. I'm rather glad to hear there isn't a cultural difference on the subject.

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(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 65

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:26:51 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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Jaybee,

I started martial arts with 7, 2 years after ballet, ballet was a condition my parents made so I could do martial arts, I experienced a few different forms of martial arts, I stuck with kickboxing as there is a good dojo nearby, so if you do the maths (sorry for busting your bubble here) " a bit of Muay Thai + TSD" aren't really that impressive. I see it as a sport that helps me to stay healthy, also teaches me selfcontrol. No matter which martial arts I did, first thing they taught us was self-control, if you didn't get that bit quick, any reputable dojo would kick your sorry ass out. They don't want to be known as places where thugs learn how to damage others. Also you must have missed out on learning the basic philosophy of every martial arts, that you should avoid fights. And in case you have any martial arts training, your legal situation is a lot worse, because they expect you to have more selfcontrol. Just a few facts, feel free to check with a lawyer.

As for slapping in clubs, any woman going up to the bouncers and saying "He slapped me" - usually your ass is toast, there might be some shady places where it doesn't happen but since I can luckily afford a glass of wine and don't need to drink the cheap home brew the owner makes, I tend to not frequent those places. In general I tend to avoid places where there are more people than teeth.

You lost your rag, a sign of complete and utter weakness, how can you dominate anybody else if you can't even keep your own anger under control?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 66

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:42:59 AM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
Shame, it would have made a you a more complete individual today.

More complete tool, possibly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
my instructor however ran something of a 'black art' Dojang. Yes, when the master (a word I use in the MA, not the BDSM sense) shouts "Gu-maan!" (stop), you damn well better, but he let a lot of sessions go well beyond what is normally considered civil.

Ah, I even thought about adding "or a piss-poor instructor" to my original post too ... there's one of the answers to one of the questions then ... the thing is though, either you're trolling, which is lame in extremis, or you're telling the truth, in which case you assaulted someone who wasn't a physical match for you, which is even worse.

Neither prospect pleases.

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 67

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:45:35 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I'm surprised that nothing else happened

I doubt very much it ever "happened" at all. I've worked security for a couple of clubs in my time (it's not something I used to do as a job, just sometimes help mates out when they were short handed, although the extra cash was nice) and that would get you forcibly removed in seconds flat. It's also the sort of thing security will be looking for as a first sign something's about to kick off, and the chances are that you'd be handed a Grade A, oven-ready battering once they got you outside. Even if it's a BDSM club I can't see it being permitted; if anything, my experience would be it'd be even more frowned on.

<snip>

I have friends running dojos and some of them also run security services (aka supply door staff) those guys are so highly trained, but even better than their MA training is their ability to stop conflict, spot problems and nip them before they become real problems. All of them know how to play up to security cameras, what they are legally allowed to do and what they say in a statement. I spent Sunday with a friend chatting, he's a highly payed consultant who sometimes does door work more for fun and to help friends out (helps that until a few years ago he competed internationally, forgot which MA), amazing people skills but it doesn't always work to calm down idiots and we were laughing about a problem that happened about a year ago, some roided up guy was refused entrance and tried to storm the club, let's say he was physically restrained and when put to the floor he called the police as he has been assaulted, all the staff knows that an emergency call is recorded so somebody just said loudly "Does that mean you aren't going to kill me anymore, mate? Me and all the guys who refused to let you in, you said you want to see our blood!" With that on the tape and a little video of him attacking, for some odd reason the guy never pressed charges.

Properly trained door staff is amazing and somebody being trained properly in any form of martial arts are usually very friendly and non-confrontational people, because they know they can make mincemeat out of almost anybody, they don't need pub fights to show how hard they are and they don't want to risk criminal records.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to RapierFugue)

Post #: 68

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:50:25 AM

submitting4U

Posts: 64
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline

We now have a debate about the heirarcy of violent behaviors. Is it more acceptable to kick, punch, whip, slap or spit upon you? While I am at it, how about if I take a dump in your mouth? I have been whipped severely, skin bleeding and sore for a month afterwards. Violence is violence so to say that face slapping is worse or better is ridiculous to me. As a slave, i enjoy being reduced by her hand, hard delivered, serially administered, preferably in front of appalled members of our society ... It is degrading and humiliating as it is painful ... isn't that the point of all of this ... to find or couch our "dark shadows" in the neat dressings of BDSM and D/s? All the while the perpetrators call themselves, Sir, Mistress, Goddess, etc ... let's be real here!

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 69

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:54:36 AM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Properly trained door staff is amazing and somebody being trained properly in any form of martial arts are usually very friendly and non-confrontational people, because they know they can make mincemeat out of almost anybody, they don't need pub fights to show how hard they are and they don't want to risk criminal records.

The single best street fighter I've ever known (and the guy who taught me) was Security. Ex 10-para unarmed instructor, prize-fighter (bare knuckle) and the most thoughtful, quiet individual you could wish to meet. That's part of why I selected him to teach me; I'd never seen anyone that dangerous be that calm before, so I figured he'd be a good teacher, and he was, very.

The close-containment stuff is very difficult to do properly. Mind you, in the days I did it (about 25 years ago) it was mostly an excuse for a tear-up

Nowadays the good ones are very highly trained and experienced. This guy is a good example;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shPj5xidsQo

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 70

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:56:30 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Also, the SIA regs stipulate you have to WITNESS the assault to manhandle a customer out of a club. And although most clubs do indeed have a camera panning around in the corner, it's usually not manned by a human operator, or if it is, he's only likely to be looking at an overview. Having ANY security in a club costs money, and in these times of recession, well I don't have to tell you what corners get cut.

Oh if it will be your word against the bar staff and the girl - who do you think they are going to believe?

I think the fact that you frequent clubs without security says possibly more about the environment you like to move in than anything else. I'm not much of a nightclub person, so I might go once or twice a month, but I haven't ever been in one where they didn't have security.

A few simple reasons for that, without security the insurance won't pay out, and if you look how much proper club furniture and decoration costs, you can pay a lot of security... Also if you get assaulted in a club and there is no security they are liable...
Of course if the floor covering of a club is sawdust and the furniture is just a board over a few bricks, the situation might be different.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 71

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 8:59:35 AM

freyjasdottir

Posts: 253
Joined: 8/29/2006
From: PA
Status: offline

One of my play partners like to slap a bit and its ok with him but may not be with others.

As to the troll monkey, I only go to two bars and it would not be a good idea for any man to even raise his voice to me in either place, let alone his hand. Most men around here don't put up with such behavior whether they know the woman or not, even the gangsta thug wannabes would show someone the door the hard way for assaulting a random woman.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 72

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:00:33 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: submitting4U

We now have a debate about the heirarcy of violent behaviors. Is it more acceptable to kick, punch, whip, slap or spit upon you? While I am at it, how about if I take a dump in your mouth? I have been whipped severely, skin bleeding and sore for a month afterwards. Violence is violence so to say that face slapping is worse or better is ridiculous to me. As a slave, i enjoy being reduced by her hand, hard delivered, serially administered, preferably in front of appalled members of our society ... It is degrading and humiliating as it is painful ... isn't that the point of all of this ... to find or couch our "dark shadows" in the neat dressings of BDSM and D/s? All the while the perpetrators call themselves, Sir, Mistress, Goddess, etc ... let's be real here!

Personally I find that appallingly rude, uncouth and disrespectful behaviour, there is a difference between what consensual adults do and violence and abuse, and forcing "appalled members of our society" to witness what gets you off, sorry, pretty horrible, they didn't give consent or asked to be part of your kink.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to submitting4U)

Post #: 73

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:00:37 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Jaybee,

I started martial arts with 7, 2 years after ballet, ballet was a condition my parents made so I could do martial arts, I experienced a few different forms of martial arts, I stuck with kickboxing as there is a good dojo nearby, so if you do the maths (sorry for busting your bubble here) " a bit of Muay Thai + TSD" aren't really that impressive. I see it as a sport that helps me to stay healthy, also teaches me selfcontrol. No matter which martial arts I did, first thing they taught us was self-control, if you didn't get that bit quick, any reputable dojo would kick your sorry ass out. They don't want to be known as places where thugs learn how to damage others. Also you must have missed out on learning the basic philosophy of every martial arts, that you should avoid fights. And in case you have any martial arts training, your legal situation is a lot worse, because they expect you to have more selfcontrol. Just a few facts, feel free to check with a lawyer.

As for slapping in clubs, any woman going up to the bouncers and saying "He slapped me" - usually your ass is toast, there might be some shady places where it doesn't happen but since I can luckily afford a glass of wine and don't need to drink the cheap home brew the owner makes, I tend to not frequent those places. In general I tend to avoid places where there are more people than teeth.

You lost your rag, a sign of complete and utter weakness, how can you dominate anybody else if you can't even keep your own anger under control?

LC, I'm not in the mood for writing reams so I'll do this point style...

I haven't had a fight out of the ring since I took up MT back in '89 - I think you'll agree that's a better record of non-violence than most men have. A few face-offs, but no actual blows thrown;

I've sparred half a dozen women FC padded, two of them had training going back to the early 90's - it wasn't even CLOSE (though one caught me as I took a knee on;

Yes I'm VERY aware of the legal situation;

I WANTED to "lose my rag". That's not weakness though, it wasn't even rage, whatever IT was flew through me like a shot (no pun intended) and back out within a split-second;

And for this portion:-

quote:

there might be some shady places where it doesn't happen but since I can luckily afford a glass of wine and don't need to drink the cheap home brew the owner makes, I tend to not frequent those places. In general I tend to avoid places where there are more people than teeth.

A glass of Shiraz for you, on my tab. If only all women had your sense of humour....

_____________________________

Mastery in motion since 2005

Women of the world, submit!

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 74

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:01:47 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

My Kung Fu is better than your Kung Fu!

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 75

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:05:58 AM

ownedbyPF

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: submitting4U

We now have a debate about the heirarcy of violent behaviors. Is it more acceptable to kick, punch, whip, slap or spit upon you? While I am at it, how about if I take a dump in your mouth? I have been whipped severely, skin bleeding and sore for a month afterwards. Violence is violence so to say that face slapping is worse or better is ridiculous to me. As a slave, i enjoy being reduced by her hand, hard delivered, serially administered, preferably in front of appalled members of our society ... It is degrading and humiliating as it is painful ... isn't that the point of all of this ... to find or couch our "dark shadows" in the neat dressings of BDSM and D/s? All the while the perpetrators call themselves, Sir, Mistress, Goddess, etc ... let's be real here!

I think you missed a key point. You are talking about things that we all consent to be a part of. Jaybee is claiming he went in to a club, lured a woman into a conversation/argument hoping she would slap him, so he could experiment with slapping, by slapping her back. Only, he lost control, never got slapped, but went ahead and smacked the hell outta of her. (Paraphrased.) See the difference? No one is talking about what is okay within BDSM, they are talking about his claim to trying out slapping on a stranger who didn't have a clue what was going on, let alone consented to any of it. Surely you see the difference? It isn't even really a debate.. it's more like.. wow, what an ass!
~s

(in reply to submitting4U)

Post #: 76

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:11:24 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

My Kung Fu is better than your Kung Fu!

Well Grasshopper, I never did Kung Fu ;)

I don't even think I'm very good at martial arts, for me it's a sport that suits me, but I know some very small girls and boys who look like a wind could blow them away, when you see them in the ring, you are just awed by their skills and reflexes.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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Post #: 77

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:15:15 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

My Kung Fu is better than your Kung Fu!

Well Grasshopper, I never did Kung Fu ;)

I don't even think I'm very good at martial arts, for me it's a sport that suits me, but I know some very small girls and boys who look like a wind could blow them away, when you see them in the ring, you are just awed by their skills and reflexes.

It was a mocking comment that wasn't directed just at you...I know the difference.

Snatch the pebble from my hand and I will slap the hell out of ya...

~Brute Lee

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 78

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:35:27 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

My Kung Fu is better than your Kung Fu!

It's starting to feel that way....

With your icon, shouldn't that be, 'Ju-Jitsu'?

_____________________________

Mastery in motion since 2005

Women of the world, submit!

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Post #: 79

RE: Slapping a slave - 12/7/2010 9:45:41 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

With your icon, shouldn't that be, 'Ju-Jitsu'?

Confucius say: What you do not know, will not harm you.

Translation: You my friend will have a pain free life.

To all: Just joking as usual...Don't work your genitals into a froth.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/7/2010 9:51:10 AM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 80

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