Am I right or wrong? (Full Version)

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VioletGray -> Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 5:54:39 PM)

Exactly what the title said!

1.)Michael Steele is on borrowed time.  All the GOP does is complain about him, and when Obama is out of office, the GOP will no longer feel the need to feign multiculturalism and they'll drop'im quicker than a Joss Whedon series.  Yes, there are there are people of color in the GOP, but if you seriously believe that Michael Steele becoming RNC chairman around the time of Obama's election is a coincidence, nothing I say is going to matter to you anyway.  Obama and Steele are like the Mystics and the Skeksie's from The Dark Crystal.  When one dies...

2.)Right now Obama's taking mad heat from the left over his Bush tax-cut deal. They yell, he defends.  Is it me or has the GOP been relatively... quiet about the situation?  Obama completely caved to their demands, but still he gets no love from the right.  On fox new's front page there's maybe a 1-sentence link. It's not one of the major stories.  Neither Coulter nor Malkin, whose sights I visit regularly, mention it at all.  Rush does, but sidesteps the issue completely, opting instead to accuse Obama of some underhanded self-serving scheme. I think I know why:

They know their position is indefensible in the eyes of the public.  "Either you give money to our friends that don't need it, or nobody gets it.  And we're not even going to talk about other shit 'till you agree to it!" They don't want to draw attention to that part, because they know explaining that will be tough. On the other hand they're still sticking to the original game plan of never, ever, Ever give Obama credit for  anything, ever, even if all he ever does is exactly what they want.


3.)Don't ask don't tell repeal failed. Is there any defense at all for that?

this next one's for the conservatives:

4.)So like, Obama. Bad still? He hasn't put up a decent fight at all. The only time he shows any backbone is when he's bickering with the left.  What's not to like, guys? Other than the fact that he's a shapeshifting pod person from the same dimension as Krang from the Ninja Turtles, waving around a fake birth certificate made from the skin of Christian babies?

Questions, comments, blah blah blah you know the drill...



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 6:05:58 PM)

If you're wrong in any of that, I sure haven't spotted it. Very astute post.

I had such high hopes for the man, but had some fears as well. None of the hopes have been realized, but the fears have all come true. What a tremendous disappointment.

I was just thinking today, as I was driving in my car listening to the news story of his latest humiliating failure of leadership, that  the most charitable thing I can say about him is that he could not possibly been elected at a worse time - he is absolutely not qualified to lead the country in a time of economic crisis. He would have been the perfect president to lead a prosperous, flourishing country into a new era of social change, but he could not possibly be more ill-suited for the crisis into which he was elected. 



Musicmystery -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:08:31 PM)

quote:

He would have been the perfect president to lead a prosperous, flourishing country into a new era of social change, but he could not possibly be more ill-suited for the crisis into which he was elected.


But there's the thing--he WASN'T elected into such a situation, but rather just before that crisis hit the fan.



TheHeretic -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:12:09 PM)

I do enjoy your questions, Violet
(though I never heard back from you on the 'conservative humor' thread)

1) Agreed that Steele is on borrowed time, but I think you have misread why he got the job. It wasn't because he would "prove" the GOP was multicultural, it was that he was immune to the race card. It was a purely defensive bit of affirmative action. He is sadly lacking in vision.

2) What are you expecting? This is the guy who was calling Republicans "enemies" right before losing 63 seats. He didn't have much choice. Besides, if the cave had been a big topic of discussion, we'd just be accused of gloating. Personally, I do give President Obama credit when I believe he gets something right. Sending a US carrier group through the Suez Canal was exactly the right response when the Israeli blockade of Gaza was challenged, and Iran thought they wanted to play too. That whole issue just went away, beautifully. It's not my fault the White House chose not publicize it.

3)DADT was thrown off the cliff as a partisan stunt. The Republicans in the Senate have been absolutely clear that they won't deal with any issues until the tax rates for next year are have been resolved, and until, Congress addresses their shameful dereliction of duty and properly funds government operations. 30% of the gay vote went Republican last month, up from '08, and further up from '06. If the Democrats keep this up, the gay vote will be split right up the middle soon enough.

quote:

4.)So like, Obama. Bad still? He hasn't put up a decent fight at all. The only time he shows any backbone is when he's bickering with the left. What's not to like, guys?



That's exactly not to like, Violet. In fact, concern that his lack of life experience in stressful positions of leadership might have just such an effect on him is a big reason why I just couldn't vote for the guy (the socialist thing was a problem too).

Regardless of how I cast my vote, Barack Obama is the President of my country, tasked with operating our government, and overseeing our national security. I don't like the idea of someone who is easily pushed around in that office one bit. Nor do I want someone who thinks in terms of domestic "enemies," and starts lashing out by abusing the powers of his office. The very last thing I want is for President Obama to lose that famous "cool" of his. It's bad enough when he is just wrong.



Musicmystery -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:25:55 PM)

quote:

Nor do I want someone who thinks in terms of domestic "enemies," and starts lashing out by abusing the powers of his office.


Yeah, we've seen enough of that in past administrations.




VioletGray -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:36:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I do enjoy your questions, Violet
(though I never heard back from you on the 'conservative humor' thread)


Wow, I wasn't even aware someone replied to that!

quote:


1) Agreed that Steele is on borrowed time, but I think you have misread why he got the job. It wasn't because he would "prove" the GOP was multicultural, it was that he was immune to the race card. It was a purely defensive bit of affirmative action. He is sadly lacking in vision.


Hmm.. Not buyin' it. The implication is that any white person in that position would be subject to a barrage of "You're a RACIST" -type slander, and I don't think we've really seen that in the past specifically directed very much at an RNC chairman.  GOP members are taken to task when they make questionable comments about race, but Michael Steele has done the opposite in that respect (admitting that the republican election strategies have been racist, suggesting that the GOP cater more to minorities) That's part of the reason I think they were so mad at him.

quote:


2) What are you expecting? This is the guy who was calling Republicans "enemies" right before losing 63 seats. He didn't have much choice. Besides, if the cave had been a big topic of discussion, we'd just be accused of gloating. Personally, I do give President Obama credit when I believe he gets something right. Sending a US carrier group through the Suez Canal was exactly the right response when the Israeli blockade of Gaza was challenged, and Iran thought they wanted to play too. That whole issue just went away, beautifully. It's not my fault the White House chose not publicize it.


I'm not familiar with the "enemies" quote, but what I do know is that the republicans have been treating him like an enemy of the state since the moment he got in office.  He's reached out to them constantly even when he didn't have to, and they've slapped his hand away over and over.  The single biggest complaint is that he cooperates with the GOP too much.  I don't know what words were used, but the Right has been doing it in practice.  And gloating isn't the only option. They could've given him credit, or even ::gasp:: have his back! Heaven forbid!

quote:


3)DADT was thrown off the cliff as a partisan stunt. The Republicans in the Senate have been absolutely clear that they won't deal with any issues until the tax rates for next year are have been resolved, and until, Congress addresses their shameful dereliction of duty and properly funds government operations. 30% of the gay vote went Republican last month, up from '08, and further up from '06. If the Democrats keep this up, the gay vote will be split right up the middle soon enough.


If what you just typed is true, then I sincerely hope that any decent human being would have a problem with this.  It is, however, a marvelous opportunity for the Dems to show gay people how much the Republicans care about their rights.

quote:

4.)So like, Obama. Bad still? He hasn't put up a decent fight at all. The only time he shows any backbone is when he's bickering with the left. What's not to like, guys?



quote:


That's exactly not to like, Violet. In fact, concern that his lack of life experience in stressful positions of leadership might have just such an effect on him is a big reason why I just couldn't vote for the guy (the socialist thing was a problem too).



Your responses, though I disagree with them, have been intelligent, and so it sincerely surprises me that you bought into the "Socialist" thing.  The Right went with "Socialist" because they needed an accusation to rally around, and "elitist" wasn't really sticking.

quote:


Regardless of how I cast my vote, Barack Obama is the President of my country, tasked with operating our government, and overseeing our national security. I don't like the idea of someone who is easily pushed around in that office one bit. Nor do I want someone who thinks in terms of domestic "enemies," and starts lashing out by abusing the powers of his office. The very last thing I want is for President Obama to lose that famous "cool" of his. It's bad enough when he is just wrong.


But Obama "caving" is a liberal position.  When I say he caved, why aren't Republicans saying, "No, he's listening to reason, it's just that our points are stronger and he's doing the right thing?" I haven't heard one Republican make that argument. Not ONE.

Also, if he pushes the liberal agenda, his politics are wrong, but if he sides with the conservatives, he's a weak leader?   Do you see anything wrong with that?

Thanks for replying, btw! :-)



Musicmystery -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:39:25 PM)

quote:

When I say he caved, why aren't Republicans saying, "No, he's listening to reason, it's just that our points are stronger and he's doing the right thing?" I haven't heard one Republican make that argument. Not ONE.


When Bill Clinton did it, they screamed, "He's stealing our issues!"

I had the same observation then--gosh, you'd think they'd be happy...



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:43:21 PM)

1) Half right, TH already said why only half.
2) Wrong about the GOP, Fox or Michelle Malking being quiet about it. The story occupies at least 1/4 of the day, including interviews with Dems and Republicans, and they have plenty to say. Malkin ranted for about 20 minutes last night. And ridiculously wrong about what the GOP is "saying" being indefensible. The major problems with the GOP compromise are that it doesnt make all of the tax cuts "permanent", two years will not be very effective in improving the economy, and extending unemployment benefits, which will extend unemployment.
3) Wrong again. This should be a military decision and a miltiary decision alone. The Marines in particular have made it very clear that they think its repeal will cause major morale problems, particularly if it is turned off like a switch.
4) Im not sure what position youre even taking, but all he does is prove every day that he is totally incompetent. His speech announcing the compromise has to be the most inartful POS since Pelosi's speech on the bailouts, which served to alienate those few from the right that supported her. BHO managed to piss off both sides and once again came across as the whiny little bitch that he is. The tax deal was made because he thinks it will buy him some credibility with the independents. Not gonna happen, because in two years the economy will not have improved materially unless there are enough Reagan Dems that wake up and help override his vetos.

D-.



Musicmystery -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:45:35 PM)

quote:

particularly if it is turned off like a switch.


Which NO ONE is proposing.



DarkSteven -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:47:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

1) Agreed that Steele is on borrowed time, but I think you have misread why he got the job. It wasn't because he would "prove" the GOP was multicultural, it was that he was immune to the race card. It was a purely defensive bit of affirmative action. He is sadly lacking in vision.



I wouldn't say "vision" as much as competence and ethics.  He didn't have anything directly to do with the lesbian strip club but it shows a lack of oversight and control over his organization.  Don't overlook his out of control spending on himself, either.  The GOP could have done better in November... I get the feeling that his underlings essentially ran the show with no direction from him.



Brain -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 7:58:43 PM)


I don't expect Hillary Clinton to challenge Obama so I would like to see Nancy Pelosi do it. I think it's time for a woman president and I think Nancy is someone people can count on not to be betrayed. Nancy Pelosi did a good job as speaker of the house. She provided quality leadership getting important legislation through and I expect she will exhibit the same success as president.


Ralph Nader Predicts Obama Will Face Democratic Primary Challenger in 2012

Calling the White House tax deal with Republicans the "last straw," Ralph Nader predicted that President Obama will face a primary challenger in 2012.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/09/ralph-nader-predicts-obama-will-face-democratic-primary-challeng/



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:00:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

particularly if it is turned off like a switch.


Which NO ONE is proposing.



My understanding is that the bill doesnt adequately address impementation to ensure that, and that is precisely the objection that the Marine command has. And WTF is it doing in an appropriations bill anyway?



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:01:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain


I don't expect Hillary Clinton to challenge Obama so I would like to see Nancy Pelosi do it. I think it's time for a woman president and I think Nancy is someone people can count on not to be betrayed. Nancy Pelosi did a good job as speaker of the house. She provided quality leadership getting important legislation through and I expect she will exhibit the same success as president.



I hated her as Speaker, but I think she might make a pretty good president. She's an utterly ruthless, coldblooded bitch, and I mean that as a compliment. It'd be nice to have a democratic president with balls for a change.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:02:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain


I don't expect Hillary Clinton to challenge Obama so I would like to see Nancy Pelosi do it.



Wow. New depths of cluelessness. The lowest rated Speaker of the lowest rated House ever, and shes going to mount a challenge? Wow.



VioletGray -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:05:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

1) Half right, TH already said why only half.
2) Wrong about the GOP, Fox or Michelle Malking being quiet about it. The story occupies at least 1/4 of the day, including interviews with Dems and Republicans, and they have plenty to say. Malkin ranted for about 20 minutes last night. And ridiculously wrong about what the GOP is "saying" being indefensible. The major problems with the GOP compromise are that it doesnt make all of the tax cuts "permanent", two years will not be very effective in improving the economy, and extending unemployment benefits, which will extend unemployment.
3) Wrong again. This should be a military decision and a miltiary decision alone. The Marines in particular have made it very clear that they think its repeal will cause major morale problems, particularly if it is turned off like a switch.
4) Im not sure what position youre even taking, but all he does is prove every day that he is totally incompetent. His speech announcing the compromise has to be the most inartful POS since Pelosi's speech on the bailouts, which served to alienate those few from the right that supported her. BHO managed to piss off both sides and once again came across as the whiny little bitch that he is. The tax deal was made because he thinks it will buy him some credibility with the independents. Not gonna happen, because in two years the economy will not have improved materially unless there are enough Reagan Dems that wake up and help override his vetos.

D-.


1.) Um, ok....
2.) I haven't gotten to see the news, I'm just looking on their respective websites. Oh wait, I said that.  Maybe you missed this part, but it's the "For the very rich" part that people seem to have a problem with.   People complain about Obama's spending, what about the damage that tax cuts for the rich will do? And your last statement here just makes assumptions about poor people, so I don't even want to touch that one...
3.)Ok, I know you're extreme, but it's at this point here that I seriously begin to question your reasoning.  First of all, "wrong" is not an answer to a question.  If decisions like this were left up to the military, we'd still have no blacks or women serving the country today.  C'mon man, I shouldn't even have to tell you that.
4.)Uh.. wow. I'm going through these points one by one, and so.. yeah. I forgot how.. um.. 'out there' you are, and here I am talking to you like a reasonable person lol.

But well, I did all this typing may as well post it!



rulemylife -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:06:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Wrong again. This should be a military decision and a miltiary decision alone. The Marines in particular have made it very clear that they think its repeal will cause major morale problems, particularly if it is turned off like a switch.


You constantly cherry-pick your points.

The military is supporting it, and no, it is not a military decision alone or we we not have Congress putting it to a vote.

Overall, the Pentagon survey showed 70% of military personnel in favor of repealing it.

The Marines did come in the lowest but they still were in favor at more than 50%.

But we don't want to let facts stand in the way of your usual distortions.

DADT survey reveals military is ok with gay troops 



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:28:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

1) Half right, TH already said why only half.
2) Wrong about the GOP, Fox or Michelle Malking being quiet about it. The story occupies at least 1/4 of the day, including interviews with Dems and Republicans, and they have plenty to say. Malkin ranted for about 20 minutes last night. And ridiculously wrong about what the GOP is "saying" being indefensible. The major problems with the GOP compromise are that it doesnt make all of the tax cuts "permanent", two years will not be very effective in improving the economy, and extending unemployment benefits, which will extend unemployment.
3) Wrong again. This should be a military decision and a miltiary decision alone. The Marines in particular have made it very clear that they think its repeal will cause major morale problems, particularly if it is turned off like a switch.
4) Im not sure what position youre even taking, but all he does is prove every day that he is totally incompetent. His speech announcing the compromise has to be the most inartful POS since Pelosi's speech on the bailouts, which served to alienate those few from the right that supported her. BHO managed to piss off both sides and once again came across as the whiny little bitch that he is. The tax deal was made because he thinks it will buy him some credibility with the independents. Not gonna happen, because in two years the economy will not have improved materially unless there are enough Reagan Dems that wake up and help override his vetos.

D-.


1.) Um, ok....
2.) I haven't gotten to see the news, I'm just looking on their respective websites. Oh wait, I said that.  Maybe you missed this part, but it's the "For the very rich" part that people seem to have a problem with.   People complain about Obama's spending, what about the damage that tax cuts for the rich will do? And your last statement here just makes assumptions about poor people, so I don't even want to touch that one...
3.)Ok, I know you're extreme, but it's at this point here that I seriously begin to question your reasoning.  First of all, "wrong" is not an answer to a question.  If decisions like this were left up to the military, we'd still have no blacks or women serving the country today.  C'mon man, I shouldn't even have to tell you that.
4.)Uh.. wow. I'm going through these points one by one, and so.. yeah. I forgot how.. um.. 'out there' you are, and here I am talking to you like a reasonable person lol.

But well, I did all this typing may as well post it!



2) There is more to the world than websites. Not my problem that you are so narrow. 80% of the tax increases are for what the Dems define as "middle class or lower". So, what damage will they do?
3) Im far from extreme. Whether you like it or not I am slightly to the right of center in the US. Wrong is the answer to a question. Read your subject line.



Brain -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:29:47 PM)

I think being Speaker of the House is evidence she's qualified for president unlike being governor of Alaska and quitting.

If what you say about her is true people will have lower expectations which will make it easier for her to be successful. I think if she has low ratings it's because Republicans have misrepresented her intentionally because she is effective.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:31:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think being Speaker of the House is evidence she's qualified for president unlike being governor of Alaska and quitting.

If what you say about her is true people will have lower expectations which will make it easier for her to be successful. I think if she has low ratings it's because Republicans have misrepresented her intentionally because she is effective.


When did I say Palin is qualified to be President?

Your second paragraph is too ridiculous to even respond to.



TheHeretic -> RE: Am I right or wrong? (12/9/2010 8:53:16 PM)

Surely, Violet, you don't expect me to go through a full reply, on a highly partisan subject, without tossing a little fun into the mix, do you? Besides, small 's' socialist, is a nice, convenient word to describe a person who looks to government first, to address societies ills.



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