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RE: Cancun UN Climate Delegates - Support Banning Dihyd... - 12/13/2010 8:48:45 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Seriously though, it is eaiser to remove the corrupt and the incompetent from local levels than national ones. It is also easier to bring about change because you have less people to convince.

Depends how many people care locally. I generally find that the higher they get in government the whiter than white they have to be or they'll have lots of people gunning for them (not just locals). There are loads of local officials who survive on the basis that local people don't even know they are supposedly represented by them.

As for the op it doesn't really say much about the UN committee unless perhaps the op thinks that signing a petition is the only step required to get something passed? In reality they sign anything just to get rid of the person and it won't go further than that most of the time; they arn't signing in blood. This idea that a petition is of equal standing to a prepared report that delegates read when deciding on directives is absurd.


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RE: Cancun UN Climate Delegates - Support Banning Dihyd... - 12/13/2010 8:54:59 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

And some people wish to allow these types of people to restructure our civilization?

Firm


Firm,

This is a very old gag. The problem is your conclusions, drawn upon assumptions, without considering alternative explanations (in fact, this is a "persuasive explanation" fallacy). What it most likely shows is pandering. It's easier to sign a petition than to get into a "I'll look into it" discussion. That said, geez, I'd hope adults and anyone beyond high school to recognize water. So fair enough on the duping point, if simplistic in its single-mindedness.

Your final point, though, quoted above, is a complete leap, and a common one. These delegates didn't go off and pass a ban later--they signed a petition and walked away, hardly a "restructuring of civilization." And further, while you can include me in those critical of over-zealous environmentalists ignoring science, reactions like yours are not only no better--they're the same problem. That some environmentalists are not so saavy, that neither are some delegates, doesn't not support the either/or fallacy that ergo there are no environmental problems. Of course there are, and those need to be addressed. This reaction equally ignores science.

Instead of reacting by building "the other side" over an imaginary line, a much more reasonable and productive approach would be to look at the actual science. That's going to mean a lot of "OK, this isn't happening, but this part is, so how do we address it?" And that's anathema in the left/right fantasy paranoia to which many subscribe today, but reality is, you can't be on the correct side of that divide--because neither side is correct in their oversimplifications engendering exaggerations and denial.


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Cancun UN Climate Delegates - Support Banning Dihyd... - 12/13/2010 9:22:46 AM   
kdsub


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No love lost on the UN here but... It could have fooled me as well...but before I would sign a petition I would at least look up the definition.

But what does this exercise in stupidity really say? Does it point out how easily manipulated UN delegates are in their desire to save mankind? Or does it say how pompous and dishonest some infantile mensa wantabes are?

I think it points out both but which group would you like to spend a few years with on a desert island with limited resources?

Butch

sorry allthatjaz... this was meant for Firm

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/13/2010 9:23:58 AM >

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RE: Cancun UN Climate Delegates - Support Banning Dihyd... - 12/14/2010 7:08:11 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Depends how many people care locally.

Same as nationally. It still amounts to less people to motivate and convince.

quote:

I generally find that the higher they get in government the whiter than white they have to be or they'll have lots of people gunning for them (not just locals).

I’m not really sure what you mean by this. Do you mean the higher in local government? National government? I’ve seen plenty of minorities in local government and in locals where the minority is the majority (isn’t language fun?) said minority make up the majority if not the totality of the government. There are plenty of minority figures in state and national government as well.

quote:

There are loads of local officials who survive on the basis that local people don't even know they are supposedly represented by them.

True, but I think most people’s disinterest in local government is a result of national government being where the “action” is. As long as the roads get plowed and school taxes don’t go too high, most people don’t see a reason to involve themselves in local politics. The national level is where the “big” debates occur (abortion, healthcare, etc.) It is where the media focuses attention. I believe this to be both a result and a cause of the paradigm that all “problems” must have national “solutions.”

quote:

As for the op it doesn't really say much about the UN committee unless perhaps the op thinks that signing a petition is the only step required to get something passed?


You’ll have to ask him although, based upon his previous posts, I am inclined to think that he is not that naïve.

quote:

In reality they sign anything just to get rid of the person and it won't go further than that most of the time; they arn't signing in blood. This idea that a petition is of equal standing to a prepared report that delegates read when deciding on directives is absurd.


Signing something just to get rid of somebody shows a lack of judgment and intelligence. It is foolish beyond measure to attach your signature to a document you have not fully read and understood. I rarely sign petitions (that last one was a call for the New York State government to abide by their treaties with the Indians and to stop harassing them for taxes on cigarette sales). If somebody approaches me with a petition and I’ve neither the time and/or inclination to find out what it is I am being asked to sign, I politely decline. If they are persistent, I politely but firmly decline. If they continue to be persistent (that is, rude and annoying), I tell them to fuck off. It has always worked for me.


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(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
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RE: Cancun UN Climate Delegates - Support Banning Dihyd... - 12/14/2010 9:08:48 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

When is the global warming?  My house is cold. 


He says while he was sweating his ass off on halloween wondering if he had ever felt one so warm. you have to quit listening to alex jones

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