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Independents - 12/10/2010 4:52:16 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

First, a disclaimer: Popeye, this is not about you. You are neither the subject nor the inspiration of this thread. You are neither urged to respond here nor encouraged not to respond here.

It's just about the fact that I don't understand how anyone marginally politically aware can be an independent. I also do not understand how anyone can respect the status of "Independent". Can the reason for being an Independent be anything other than an ignorance of the propfound differences between the two parties?

I will admit that I fell into the trap myself, halfway. Although I have been a registered republican since '76 (I wanted to vote in the Republican Presidential primary), I thought there was something... unthoughtful.... about voting a straight party ticket and through 2000 always found a Dim or two to vote for (and only slightly regret the time I voted for Sam Nunn). Watching local Dim poll personnel try to steal Florida for Albore taught me the importance of voting the party line. Watching Bart Stupak explode the myth of the prolife Dimocrat and seeing straight partyline vote after partyline vote both before and especially since 2008 has reinforced my belief that if you know what the hell is going on as regards any issue in which you take an interest- you have to take a fucking side. Don't you??

Welfare, immigration, deficit spending, military strength, foreign affairs, taxes, the economy, blah blah blah, pick your poison, how in the hell, in the United States of America as it is constituted in 2010, can you just blow with the wind from one party to the other, voting Republican this time and Dim the next???

I just don't get it. Pick a team already.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

Post #: 1

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 4:55:09 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Do you realize that there are people who hold positions between the two parties and others who hold positions farther to the left and or right than the parties?

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 2

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 4:56:34 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Sorry, I don't agree. I expect a candidate to listen to me, not to his political party. Sometimes I side with Dems, sometimes with GOP, sometimes with both, sometimes with neither.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 3

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 4:57:30 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

You just dont get it do you ? It is entirely possible to be with the government on some topics, but not on others. In my time I have voted both Conservative and Labour, both parties have made pledges they have broken, both parties have come out with the odd good policy. It is the very fact that neither can rely on everyones vote all the time that keeps them in check.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 4

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:12:56 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I am in no hurry for Austerity.

Besides when we get there - it will be riots- they freaken riot when they win a ball game! What will it be like when people are starving?

FEMA camps-- YAY. COG. Rex 84. Yay for the revolution! But lets not rush it.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 5

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:21:36 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

"Do you realize that there are people who hold positions between the two parties and others who hold positions farther to the left and or right than the parties?'

Positions between the two parties. For bombing Iran, against bombing Afghanistan? For extending both unemployment benefits and "tax cuts"? Really? Can you help me out with some examples of such positions that hopefully are not completely farcical, and do not result in schizophrenia but do result in voting for different parties in different elections??

If you're farther left or right don't you identify as either a socialist or a a libertarian or whatever? seriously, you're to the right of the Republicans and that makes you an Independent? Meaning you want to... vote Dim if the mood strikes you?

I don't get it.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 6

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:24:25 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

My political philosophy is Libertarian, however, I am a registered Independent, Here in Mass. they call it undeclared. And unlike most staes I can chose what party I want to vote in for the Primaries. I vote for the candidate who most closely aligns themselves with my own philosophy. Sometimes that's a Rep, sometimes a Dem, sometimes a Lib.

I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I cannot imagine voting the same party all one's life. * I * believe that those who do this are pretty mindless. It's * lazy * voting IMO. I hear some Dems whining about " Blue Dog Dems " all the time, same for some Reps whining about RINO"S. Well.... wtf did you vote for them for if they don't represent you ? Simply because they have a D or R after their name ? You reap what you sow when you don't educate yourself on every candidates position.
YMMV.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 7

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:24:49 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

People decide to be Independents because they are capable of and intelligent enough to think for themselves, analyze their own data and come to INDEPENDENT conclusions.

They dont have to simply regurgitate the pablum that was fed to them by their favorite biased media outlet because they lack the ability to do otherwise.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 8

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:28:17 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

"Sometimes I side with Dems, sometimes with GOP, sometimes with both, sometimes with neither"

I can certainly see agreeing with neither.
Both seems schizo. How else can you agree with two diametrically opposing forces/ideas?
On what issue in the last decade has it been rational to agree with the Dems in one (national) election and the Rs the next?

I don't mean to attack you personally (I even used an "e" lol); I just truly do not understand how it's possible to go from R to D to R to R to D to R.....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 9

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:32:50 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

I probably know less about British politics than you do American, so I cannot comment on the rationality of switching between your parties. But I think ours are substantially different, and I tend to think of the larger picture, the sweep of the platforms, the historical records of our two parties, rather than in terms of the all too frequently meaningless promises of an individual politician.

See "Bart Stupak" or "Read my lips. No new taxes"

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 10

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:33:53 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"Sometimes I side with Dems, sometimes with GOP, sometimes with both, sometimes with neither"

I can certainly see agreeing with neither.
Both seems schizo. How else can you agree with two diametrically opposing forces/ideas?
On what issue in the last decade has it been rational to agree with the Dems in one (national) election and the Rs the next?

I don't mean to attack you personally (I even used an "e" lol); I just truly do not understand how it's possible to go from R to D to R to R to D to R.....

Ah. I meant to refer to agreeing with an issue up for vote, and you meant agree with a candidate. Sorry about the confusion.

Actually, I am likely to be in the position of voting against as opposed to voting for, in the future. I voted Dem in 2008 to send a message to the GOP about Bush's policies. It will be a long time before I ever vote GOP again, but third party candidates are looking better and better now.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 11

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:38:20 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I just don't get it. Pick a team already.

Well unh, it's not a sport yanno.

K.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 12

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:43:12 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

I think I can imagine how a Libertarian might vacillate between R and D... maybe. I was sorta with you there.

Yo're right about straight party tickets being..... simple. But the real education, imo, as regards who to vote for in the general election, lies in being familiar not with the candidate but in the straight partyline votes seen every day in Washington DC. Sure, Brown is a RINO, and if I lived in Mass I'd vote for a different, more conservative candidate in the primary every time, and for Brown in the general. He'd certainly vote "my way" more often than anyone in Mass with a D behind his name (and in fact already has).

Party affiliation probably means more now than ever before in my lifetime.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 13

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:47:38 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

You know, I fell into that rut too.
Lived in Atlanta as a teenager, when they built Atlanta Stadium and brought in the Braves and Falcons.
'Course, my Birds are flying high this year. For a change.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 14

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 5:49:24 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Your ability to miss the point remains unmatched.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 15

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 6:28:11 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You just dont get it do you ? It is entirely possible to be with the government on some topics, but not on others. In my time I have voted both Conservative and Labour, both parties have made pledges they have broken, both parties have come out with the odd good policy. It is the very fact that neither can rely on everyones vote all the time that keeps them in check.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 16

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 6:53:25 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Your ability to miss the point remains unmatched.

What is the point ? Obviously there are independants. I am an independent and personally...I wish there were about say a 100 million more of us. Now that's something for the non-independents to really fear. We do however often demonstrate very disturbing signs among the US political diaspora...independent thought. Imagine that.

The last two years saw far too many fall prey to what Lincoln warned us against...the corporation, 'money centers' using their power to 'play upon the prejudices of the people.' They did and it worked.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 17

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 7:20:33 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I use to be a registered Independent.However,here in the state of Flordia,you either have to be a registered Democrat or Republican to vote in the primary here.So,as this may shock some people.I became a registered Democrat,ONLY so I could vote in the local primary election's.There are a few thing's I agree with Republican's on.When I can remember what those thing's were,I'll let you know.I agree alot with Libertarian's social view's.Plus unlike Republican's,at least Libertarian's actually practice what they preach,like you know,smaller government,more personal freedoms.Clearly not what Republican's truly believe in.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 18

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 7:31:13 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I use to be a registered Independent.However,here in the state of Flordia,you either have to be a registered Democrat or Republican to vote in the primary here.So,as this may shock some people.I became a registered Democrat,ONLY so I could vote in the local primary election's.There are a few thing's I agree with Republican's on.When I can remember what those thing's were,I'll let you know.I agree alot with Libertarian's social view's.Plus unlike Republican's,at least Libertarian's actually practice what they preach,like you know,smaller government,more personal freedoms.Clearly not what Republican's truly believe in.

The republican party has spent the last 40-50 years trying to denegrate and marginalize the libertarians and their party as crazy radicals. Yes, I think a majority might vote for a much more Laissez faire capitalism which would have likely had us truly bankrupt by now but I agree with many other libertarion views.

One thing would be to bring the 10th amend. back alive and that it overrules any power the court came up with under the Interstate Commerce clause now giving the feds immense power.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 19

RE: Independents - 12/10/2010 7:51:11 PM

pyroaquatic

Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline

I am independent because neither side can completely represent me.

People should have guns, yes. Just because you remove guns or make it harder to get them does not mean people are not going to kill each other. Personally I will never own a gun for various reasons. Bow, yes. Sword, yes.

Marijuana should be legal. Personally I do not smoke but I believe more money can be dished out to prosecute on harder drugs like cocaine and its derivatives, heroine, methamphetamine, etc... and seriously focus on rehabilitation.

If Marijuana continues to be illegal then alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal as well.

Focus on projects that advance both ENERGY and EDUCATION to promote more INDEPENDENCE.

I could go on but I am somewhere out of the box. I have other policies that others may or may not disagree with and they are certainly allowed to do so. It is encouraged actually. Helps deflate my.... ego.

The point is I am on my own side because no PARTY (where is the party clown?) has all of the answers. I am not going to 'pick a team' because all of us should be on the same side:

AMERICA.

scratch that....

HUMANITY.

We are all on this globe, might as well learn to get along until the space wars emerge.

_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 20

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