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Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 7:44:05 AM

truckinslave

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Joined: 6/16/2004
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I am a big proponent of religious profiling at airports. I completely reject the idea that, since all of the passengers who have tried in recent memory to explode an airliner in flight are Islams, we need to treat all passengers with an equal degree of suspicion.
Every successful parent recognizes the usefulness of both profiling and guilt by association.
In any case, I came across http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/10/profiling-airline-passengers-is-constitutional-and-effective/ at DailyCaller.

The case in question is US v Armstrong, 1996, and it holds in (relevant) part:

"The Court of Appeals reached its decision in part because it started “with the presumption that people of all races commit all types of crimes — not with the premise that any type of crime is the exclusive province of any particular racial or ethnic group.” It cited no authority for this proposition, which seems contradicted by the most recent statistics of the United States Sentencing Commission. Those statistics show: More than 90% of the persons sentenced in 1994 for crack cocaine trafficking were black, 93.4% of convicted LSD dealers were white and 91% of those convicted for pornography or prostitution were white. Presumptions at war with presumably reliable statistics have no proper place in the analysis of this issue."
Emphasis mine.

Profiling Muslims at airports is not only sensible but legal, despite what the media has said to the contraray.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 12/11/2010 7:45:38 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

Post #: 1

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 7:53:30 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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No, if you read the actual US v Armstrong it was part of the reversal, and stated that they made unfounded profiling claims in their reversal.

What was actually the point was, too fucking bad you're black, but we caught you red handed with 130g of crack in the motel room. It is the crack that got you busted, not your melatonin genetics.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 2

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 7:56:50 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

You need not start with the presumption that people of all religions commit all types of crimes.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 3

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 7:59:03 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Religion or skin colors. Even if the numbers count out right. So, fundamentally they dismissed the profiling accusation out of hand. It may have been an entirely different situation if they hadn't had 130g of crack in hand at the bust.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 4

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:06:28 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
I am a big proponent of religious profiling at airports. I completely reject the idea that, since all of the passengers who have tried in recent memory to explode an airliner in flight are Islams, we need to treat all passengers with an equal degree of suspicion.

When you say religious profiling what you really mean is ethnic profiling. Since most of your oblivious kind probably can't tell a Muslim from a Sikh visually. We will probably be letting the white Muslims through with less scrutiny also as long as they don't have a beard right?

I think it's sad when you start to accept the discrimination of one group just off the back of the actions of the few. It wouldn't be the first time civilisation has dabbled with this idea, you don't have to look back far to see how badly such approaches ultimately turn out.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 5

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:17:30 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, the bathtowel on the head is a big give away for the Sikhs. The golden grill and the bomb dress sort of intimates a muslim.

LOLOLOL.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 6

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:20:44 AM

truckinslave

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Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

"It may have been an entirely different situation if they hadn't had 130g of crack in hand at the bust. "

SCOTUS did not even consider that.
It wasn't even part of the appeal to the 9nth Circuit.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 7

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:24:17 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

There are no reliable visual criteria.
But there are other ways.
Are you familiar with the purification ceremonies undertaken by suicide bombers?
The ten signs of suicide bombers?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 8

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:39:48 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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I differ on that assessment regarding what SCOTUS considered:

CHIEF JUSTICE REHNQUIST delivered the opinion of the Court.
<snip>
In April 1992, respondents were indicted in the United States District Court for the Central District of California on charges of conspiring to possess with intent to distribute more than 50 grams of cocaine base (crack) and conspiring to distribute the same, in violation of 21 U.S.C. 841 and 846 (1988 ed. and Supp. IV), and federal firearms offenses. For three months prior to the indictment, agents of the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms and the Narcotics Division of the Inglewood, California, Police Department had infiltrated a suspected crack distribution ring by using three confidential informants. On seven separate occasions during this period, the informants had bought a total of 124.3 grams of crack from respondents and witnessed respondents carrying firearms during the sales. The agents searched the hotel room in which the sales were transacted, arrested respondents Armstrong and Hampton in the room, and [ UNITED STATES v. ARMSTRONG, ___ U.S. ___ (1996) , 2] found more crack and a loaded gun. The agents later arrested the other respondents as part of the ring.
</snip>
<snip>
In the case before us, respondents' "study" did not constitute "some evidence tending to show the existence of the essential elements of" a selective-prosecution claim. Berrios, supra, at 1211. The study failed to identify individuals who were not black, could have been prosecuted for the offenses for which respondents were charged, but were not so prosecuted. This omission was not remedied by respondents' evidence in opposition to the Government's motion for reconsideration. The newspaper article, which discussed the discriminatory effect of federal drug sentencing laws, was not relevant to an allegation of discrimination in decisions to prosecute. Respondents' affidavits, which recounted one attorney's conversation with a drug treatment center employee and the experience of another attorney defending drug prosecutions in state court, recounted hearsay and reported personal conclusions based on anecdotal evidence. The judgment of the Court of Appeals is therefore reversed, and the case is remanded for proceedings consistent with this opinion.
It is so ordered.
</snip>

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 9

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:42:54 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
The ten signs of suicide bombers?

Well in fairness after detonation there are more than ten signs of one.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 10

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 8:54:10 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

So the right wing press is telling lies about Supreme Court decisions. How utterly unsurprising.

US v Armstrong was ruled that the defendant had not proven his claim not that profiling was legal.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 12/11/2010 8:55:05 AM >

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Post #: 11

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 9:13:06 AM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

This post is a perfect example of why the Right is always hungry for a War, a jihad, a Crusade against some Evil Empire; the fear and panic of the existential threat allows them to do what they have always wanted to do- establish a strong authoritarian regime that keeps the rabble in line, and keeps the white Christian sect in power.

This is why Rep. Bob Dornan railed on about the fear of white people losing their freedom if the DREAM act passes; its why we constantly hear the drumbeat of fear about Iran, its why the neocons constantly scramble to find a new Axis of Evil. Its why conservative Republicans openly yearn for the Confederacy, its why they struggle to paint themselves as victims of a "war on Christmas", and dream of a government that can summarily execute anyone it doesn't like.

As I have said many times, the Right has embraced and become the very thing they always fought against.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 12

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 10:13:41 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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Got hyperbole, much?
That was Rohrbacher you and your site tried to malign, not Dornan, who has been out of the House for well over a decade. No one is looking for a new axis of evil- two of the original three are still pursuing nuclear terror, nobody yearns for the Confederacy despite your pathetic lillte guilty liberal weakness, etc etc etc.
You attempts at superiority, both moral and intellectual, sometimes rise above parody; this is just farcical.

And gloriously off-topic to boot.
Pretty good even for you.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 12/11/2010 10:14:02 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 13

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 1:39:16 PM

flcouple2009

Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline

Well Nemo Demo,

Since the people who burn down abortion clinics and murder the Doctors are white and of a fundamentalist christian background your OK with everyone who fits that description being stopped and searched, right?

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 14

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 1:49:47 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

"Profiling is nothing more than minimal awareness". Dennis Miller

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 15

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 1:58:47 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

"US v Armstrong was ruled that the defendant had not proven his claim not that profiling was legal."

He claimed to have been profiled.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 16

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 2:00:36 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

I am fine with anyone entering abortion clinics being stopped and searched. Profile away

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 17

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 2:41:03 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

"Profiling is nothing more than minimal awareness". Dennis Miller

So, from monkey handlers to comedians to come up with the philosophy, and you wonder why you are treated like fuckwits.

Unfair it ain't. It's profiling.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 18

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 2:41:57 PM

flcouple2009

Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline

Oh Nemo Demo,

Your joking right? Since these activities have not been committed by people entering the clinic but attacks from the outside everyone should be stopped on the basis that they look white and christian. Your good with just being stopped because your white and probably christian, right?

I think you've missed the part where the court said this wasn't about profiling but about the weapons and crack.

< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 12/11/2010 2:42:18 PM >

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 19

RE: Whaddaya know? Profiling is legal - 12/11/2010 2:56:59 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Presumptions at war with presumably reliable statistics have no proper place in the analysis of this issue

Thats what they said.

Muslims are the ones who blow up planes. I want them profiled getting on planes.

If Christians blow up abortion clinics, I want them profiled going into abortion clinics.

Should be clear now.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 20

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