Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People.


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 9:25:47 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


What would cause you to think that the moneyed class has any desire, or interest in maintaining democracy and the "ability to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities"?



Uhhhh, the greatest economy in world history, with those at the top changing over the decades.

Top ever changing? LOL.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 9:32:20 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Each to their own I guess...but I look at it much differently. If each country, and people within them, learned to survive and prosper using only their available resources and depending on each other then there would be no need for war and conquest of any kind. The worlds populations would be self regulating. Otherwise there would be no need or advantage for 9 children in a region that can only support 3.

There would be no need to manipulate or dominate other regions and peoples of the world to support your nations industry.

The US was in isolation for many years and prospered beyond any other country in history…so it works. We were only drawn out by world events and it was a mistake on our part. We should have let Europe sort their problems out themselves.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 11:31:18 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

U.S. policy toward Central Asia was transparently cynical: support the dictators, screw the people.

Read article here.


We should be "supporting" neither.


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 12:44:14 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

If others perish due to lack of brains, muscle, or resources; well, that's their problem.



There's quite a lot of hubris, condescension, and bigotry in that last sentence. And it presumes that the rest of the world benefits from benign US intervention and involvement. What would the constitutionally incapable and inept of the world do with out the US? Ah, the good old Western notion of noblesse oblige and white man's burden. As to the resources, the Western powers are in these small countries to take, not to give.

In any event, what kdsub is claiming is that the US is only there to help, and we stumble and make mistakes and hurt people in the process, and it is actually a drain on the country, and that if we could do with a little less, it would be possible to self sustain.



Aside from the practical impossibility, what is overlooked in the discussion here so far is the fact that a very large portion of the world would consider it to be the greatest blessing and advancement of mankind if the US were to become isolationist.




(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 1:21:20 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Aside from the practical impossibility, what is overlooked in the discussion here so far is the fact that a very large portion of the world would consider it to be the greatest blessing and advancement of mankind if the US were to become isolationist.


Oh, yes...

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 1:22:15 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline 		I probably would have expressed myself more clearly had I said "My definition of isolationism is..." instead of "Here's what isolationism means to me." For newcomers to this thread who haven't followed the entire thread could easily jump to the conclusion that I am an isolationist, whereas I am not.

As far as "If others perish due to lack of brains, muscle, or resources; well, that's their problem" is concerned; this belief is held by many, though not by me. In my opinion, although they won't express themselves quite that bluntly, many of those on the far right hold this isolationist belief on a personal vs. others level; and many hold the belief on a national vs. global level as well. 

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 1:27:03 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

Aside from the practical impossibility, what is overlooked in the discussion here so far is the fact that a very large portion of the world would consider it to be the greatest blessing and advancement of mankind if the US were to become isolationist.


Oh, yes...



No question that this would be an improvement over its current policy of parasitical, interventionist, empire building. So yes, isolationism would be the lesser of two evils.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 1:32:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

In any event, what kdsub is claiming is that the US is only there to help, and we stumble and make mistakes and hurt people in the process, and it is actually a drain on the country, and that if we could do with a little less, it would be possible to self sustain.


Now where in all that I said did you get that? You could not be further from my stance.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 1:35:26 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


The US was in isolation for many years and prospered beyond any other country in history…so it works. We were only drawn out by world events and it was a mistake on our part. We should have let Europe sort their problems out themselves.

Butch




More fantasy.

The US has never been in isolation, from the colonies till today. Were that the case, all the Southern Delta region would be speaking French and Creole, and most of the area from Texas to California would be speaking Spanish, and the super power we know today would never have come into being. Cuba and the Phillipines would still belong to Spain. The Barbary wars greeted the US almost right away, and how would those have occurred without US merchants in the Mediterranean, carrying out US/European trade to begin with? The US joined in the opium wars, the repression of the Boxer rebellion, and joined in many other such excursions.

The first colony was for purpose of growing and exporting tobacco, later followed by sugar, then cotton, before and after independence. The Pilgrims so enamoured and idolized by some imported sugar from the Caribbean and made rum for domestic and export trade. Aside from slavery, the domestic tensions of the early-mid 1800's had to do with tariffs implemented so as to benefit one region and harm another. What were these tariffs about if the US was so isolationist?  

The list goes on ...





(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 1:42:28 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

In any event, what kdsub is claiming is that the US is only there to help, and we stumble and make mistakes and hurt people in the process, and it is actually a drain on the country, and that if we could do with a little less, it would be possible to self sustain.


Now where in all that I said did you get that? You could not be further from my stance.

Butch



Possibly by your constant repetition of "we are not angels" (i.e., bestowing blessings), "let them solve their own problems for a change," etc.

But it is also true that you recognize the US does not always venture out for benign purpose, so my paraphrasing was a bit oversimplified, true.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/14/2010 2:22:52 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 4:30:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


The US was in isolation for many years and prospered beyond any other country in history…so it works. We were only drawn out by world events and it was a mistake on our part. We should have let Europe sort their problems out themselves.

Butch




More fantasy.



You need to do as little more of a search on line...check out the time between WWI and II. Isolationism does not mean withdrawing from the world but it does mean building a self-sustaining economy and staying out of other countries business… especially European politics . You folks are nuts.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 5:16:07 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rule if we could all just know the future we would make different decisions and take different paths. Yes in hindsight it was counter productive to support the Mujahedin but remember we found it in our interests to save Europe twice in the last hundred years… oh wait you are right sorry.

Butch


I have to laugh at the constant "We saved Europe" bullshit heard on here. It was a joint effort by all concerned yet you love to cling to the idea that you saved Europe.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 5:21:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rule if we could all just know the future we would make different decisions and take different paths. Yes in hindsight it was counter productive to support the Mujahedin but remember we found it in our interests to save Europe twice in the last hundred years… oh wait you are right sorry.

Butch


I have to laugh at the constant "We saved Europe" bullshit heard on here. It was a joint effort by all concerned yet you love to cling to the idea that you saved Europe.


Obviously it was a joint effort, but there is no other country who's withdrawal would have led to defeat in Europe.


_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 5:34:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rule if we could all just know the future we would make different decisions and take different paths. Yes in hindsight it was counter productive to support the Mujahedin but remember we found it in our interests to save Europe twice in the last hundred years… oh wait you are right sorry.

Butch


I have to laugh at the constant "We saved Europe" bullshit heard on here. It was a joint effort by all concerned yet you love to cling to the idea that you saved Europe.


Obviously it was a joint effort, but there is no other country who's withdrawal would have led to defeat in Europe.



Dont be silly, both Britain and Russia could have cut a deal and given Hitler a free hand. Without either Russia tying up millions of German troops, or Britain and others supplying ships and troops and acting as a spring board, D-Day would have been impossible.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 5:36:32 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I do lay it on heavy......but you know it's the truth. But of course it was not my generation that saved you from destruction our fathers did. Damn can't you folks just get along and leave us alone.

Without our industrial production Russia nor you could have survived...let alone our military might.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/14/2010 5:38:59 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 5:37:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rule if we could all just know the future we would make different decisions and take different paths. Yes in hindsight it was counter productive to support the Mujahedin but remember we found it in our interests to save Europe twice in the last hundred years… oh wait you are right sorry.

Butch


I have to laugh at the constant "We saved Europe" bullshit heard on here. It was a joint effort by all concerned yet you love to cling to the idea that you saved Europe.


Obviously it was a joint effort, but there is no other country who's withdrawal would have led to defeat in Europe.



Dont be silly, both Britain and Russia could have cut a deal and given Hitler a free hand. Without either Russia tying up millions of German troops, or Britain and others supplying ships and troops and acting as a spring board, D-Day would have been impossible.


1. Nonsense about Britian or Russia. They werent gettin the job done before we entered. Did they contribute? Of course. Would their withdrawal have led to a loss, NFW. Russia relied on US weapons and supplies to accomplish what it did.
2. The war would have been won eventually without D-Day.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/14/2010 5:43:46 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 5:41:46 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
1. Nonsense about Britian or Russia. They werent gettin the job done before we entered. Did they contribute? Of course. Would their withdrawal have led to a loss, NFW.
2. The war would have been won eventually without D-Day.

Your knowledge of military history is woefully incomplete. And, in parts, clearly non-existent.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 6:41:51 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


The US was in isolation for many years and prospered beyond any other country in history…so it works. We were only drawn out by world events and it was a mistake on our part. We should have let Europe sort their problems out themselves.

Butch




More fantasy.



You need to do as little more of a search on line...check out the time between WWI and II. Isolationism does not mean withdrawing from the world but it does mean building a self-sustaining economy and staying out of other countries business… especially European politics . You folks are nuts.

Butch



More research online I need, eh?

Well sorry, most of my researh and education about the issue was accomplished by way of the library (a good lot of it before "online" was generally available), and to this day I still know how to operate a r/l book; opening, page turning, the whole nine yards. Unrepentant informational Luddite here. 

I know what you are referring to though; the several neutrality proclamations, agreements, the withdrawal of troops from Latin America and the general (and quite understandable) citizen hostility towards foreign interventions of any sort. The Hoover and earlier FDR years were the apex of this relatively brief period.

But official policy and citizen sentiment are quite meaningless when corporations are doing business with those that "official policy" claim the country is not interested in or even supposedly prohibited from helping.

Is the information available online that many of the trucks and tanks used in the blitzkrieg were built by Opel (GM) and Ford? Or did that info never make it from library to online? Not to mention some of the planes and many of the parts for planes. This in addition to Standard Oil NJ's invaluable help to the cause, with their partnership with IG Farben in developing the technologies for coal-to-oil process, synthetic rubber, ethyl compound for gasoline (leaded gas), most of which Std. Oil refused to release to the US. ITT was also a big help with communications technology.

Is it obtainable anywhere online that Henry Ford and GM's James Mooney were two of only four civilians to be honored with Nazi Germany's highest civilian award,  the Grand Cross of the German Eagle?

Lo and behold, it certainly is!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm


That was originally printed in a physical newspaper by the way, messy ink and all.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/14/2010 6:48:15 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 7:30:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		If you did your research then why did you not answer with information that has anything to do with our conversation...you talked for 5 paragraphs and said nothing to the point.

Did the majority of Americans believe in isolationism in the 20 and 30's at least when it came to the squabbles of Europe or not?


Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/14/2010 7:31:14 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. - 12/14/2010 7:32:11 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I have to laugh at the constant "We saved Europe" bullshit heard on here. It was a joint effort by all concerned yet you love to cling to the idea that you saved Europe.


What, you make it sound like 20 Million Russians died fighting the Nazis; or that the Europeans lost many more millons, and saw their cities devastated as a result, living in poverty for decades afterward.

Goddamit, we had tax increases, man!

TAX INCREASES, I tell you!!!

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094