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More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 9:21:00 AM

truckinslave

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The city of Chicago has enacted a requirement that gun buyerstake a course that includes an hour of range time. That might be okay if it's a onetime deal. But they then banned gun ranges.

One excerpt that I think just typifies the arrogant ignorance of the antigun crowd:

As another defense, Chicago claimed that even without the ban, zoning regulations would make range construction impossible. This is despite the fact that Chicago Zoning Administrator Patricia Scudiero – who would be tasked with reviewing the zoning rules – testified in court that she “has never been to a gun range, has never read or studied any literature about gun ranges, has no experience or education with either the structure or operation of gun ranges, and has never investigated gun ranges for zoning purposes.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/15/chicagos-ban-on-gun-ranges-challenged-in-court/#ixzz18CYuEf8i

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

Post #: 1

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 9:27:16 AM

mnottertail

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While the ban on gun ranges borders on heresy, the guy might be fucked in a SCOTUS deal, its as if a lunatic shithouse lawyer hereabouts wrote up the argument:

The Second Amendment guarantees a right to use and operate gun ranges…shooting at a range is also in and of itself a traditional lawful use of firearms secured by that amendment,” wrote Gura in his appeal. “Thus, while Defendant [Chicago] may regulate ranges in the interest of public health and safety, it cannot completely ban them, whatever its purported reasons.”

The second amendment guarentees no such thing. I think that there should be gun ranges available to the population, and that they shouldn't be banned, but if the court looks narrowly (as they often do in these large questions) he's a goner with his first sentence.

I don't like the statute, but hard to figure out how it would be unconstitutional.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/15/2010 9:33:51 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 9:43:44 AM

truckinslave

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The "lunatic shithouse lawyer" is the same Alan Gura who argued both Heller and McDonald before SCOTUS.
And won.

You can't make this shit up.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 3

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 9:46:01 AM

bbob9978

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Joined: 11/17/2010
From: Chicago
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Well, a well regulated militia would imply that it was a well trained militia, and in order to be well trained and regulated, the gun owner needs access to a range facility. The reason there are no range facilities specified in the constitution is that in the 1700's you could take your musket and shoot it off the back porch to practice and be in no danger of hitting a neighbor.

What I don't like about the law is that their is no provision for people who already far exceed the minimum training. I personally have worn a military uniform since I was 17 years old and I am a multi-award expert in several different weapons, but I still have to take the cities class if I want to register my handgun here.

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 9:50:07 AM

mnottertail

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the lunatic shithouse lawyer referred to was not gura. i said the argument is written like a shithouse lawyer. H and M are vastly different questions than this though, anyone could have argued that and won (with the exception of the NRA who couldn't)

you cant make this shit up.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/15/2010 10:01:04 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 5

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 9:51:22 AM

KenDckey

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I think the whole thing will turn on whether they can go out of the city limits to obtain the necessary range time. I disagree with chicago but I think that is a hard thing to prove. And yes I have several different types of weapons and they all work nicely and no I don't go to a range to use them, i go out in the open desert

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:01:09 AM

bbob9978

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From: Chicago
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See I don't have open desert, and even the suburbs around the city have closed down a lot of the indoor ranges, and to go to an outdoor one you have to travel pretty far with all of the development around here.

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:06:42 AM

KenDckey

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That is unfortunate Bob. Welcome to come for a visit out here, is only a 1469 mile drive. Or move to Vegas Big city and lots of open desert there too. Like I said, I disagree with Chicago

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:07:03 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

the lunatic shithouse lawyer referred to was not gura. i said the argument is written like a shithouse lawyer. H and M are vastly different questions than this though, anyone could have argued that and won (with the exception of the NRA who couldn't)

you cant make this shit up.

That's the limpest post you ever made, afaik.

Thanks for the imitation/flattery.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 9

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:17:34 AM

flcouple2009

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The people in charge of Chicago must have gone insane.

Making impossible hurdles to gun ownership is never gonna fly.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 10

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:20:43 AM

KenDckey

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LOL I think SCOTUS killed their horse and now they want to beat it

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:21:13 AM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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The city of Chicago used to have a gun range/shooting club. They shot out into the lake (just about the only way to ensure no one is down range in the city) but they didn't clean up what they shot and it started to affect the quality of the drinking water and the safety of nearby beaches so it was shut down.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 12

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:22:47 AM

KenDckey

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Military found that out when they started closing down weapons ranges. Lead polution turned the ranges into EPA issues. Even tho the rounds were full jacketed

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:24:23 AM

mnottertail

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It is not at all limp, the restrictions from gun ownership are well dissed by the SCOTUS rulings, the zoning of gun ranges is not.

The you cant make this shit up is pointing out your bullshit, like your outright lie dealing with profiling being legal.

its as if a lunatic shithouse lawyer hereabouts wrote up the argument

you need reading comprehension, so if you parse the sentence, put in front of your eyes again, you will notice that indeed the as if would indicate that I said what I said, not limp at all and the hereabouts I will let you pencil out for yourself, but I am not hopeful that you will understand what nearly everyone else knows I meant on this board.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

H and M dealt with restrictions on gun ownership in the city, which is an infringement on keeping and bearing.........this suit is about whether they can restrict gun ranges.

The Second Amendment guarantees a right to use and operate gun ranges…
shooting at a range is also in and of itself a traditional lawful use of firearms secured by that amendment,”

nothing about gun ranges in that second amendment, and define traditional, here I can shoot without a range, and folks many places have open use. now, traditionally, the scotus have left restrictions surrounding how and where and when you can keep and bear arms to the states, the meaning of the constitution for federal issues is seen as narrow.

I think it is a horseshit argument based on past caselaw, and unless hes got a fuck of alot more in his brief than that firstliner, he's toast, but then that is the sort of gunslinging tough talking mindless empty rhetoric that gets drooling neocon fuckheads dicks hard before they do the bathroom airport suck offs.

It is only words, and hasn't anything beyond an impudent rah rah value.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 14

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 10:49:40 AM

MrRodgers

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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Yea, let's go back top Dodge City or better yet...Tombstone. That was when we were really frontiersman and swashbauckling heroes of the west.

Oh I am sorry, it was so much fun more graves were being dug then septic for housing. Ironic isn't it...seems there were several heroes of the west...made heroes for oh no, heaven forbid...enacting and fighting to enforce gun control.

Just look at how far we have come...9-10,000 firearm deaths a year. It is more likely though since we have come so far, is that your doctor...will kill you. 120,000 accidental medical deaths PER YEAR...attributed to doctors. Between our great gun regime and our health care...America is thriving.

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 15

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 11:31:23 AM

flcouple2009

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Sorry Ron but I don't really see this as being about whether Chicago has gun ranges or not.

This is obviously an attempt to get around not being able to ban guns by creating an impossible hurdle to overcome.

You have to go to the gun range. Wait there are no gun ranges? So sorry for you.

I think the people in charge of Chicago must be smoking crack.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 16

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 11:39:37 AM

mnottertail

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They are only saying no gun ranges in city limits, there are many gun ranges outside chitown proper. I think they got a big chance with that.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 17

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 2:24:26 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Sorry Ron but I don't really see this as being about whether Chicago has gun ranges or not.

This is obviously an attempt to get around not being able to ban guns by creating an impossible hurdle to overcome.

You have to go to the gun range. Wait there are no gun ranges? So sorry for you.

I think the people in charge of Chicago must be smoking crack.

I live in the City and have long stored my guns at a gun range within a short drive of my home. I didn't bother looking into the details of the new law since I have no desire to have my guns in an apartment where I can't anchor a gun safe. If the law simply requires time on a range that is certainly doable in the area.

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 18

RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/15/2010 2:52:01 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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The city I live in has a zoning regulation that prohibits OUTDOOR ranges within the city limits.

When they passed the ordinance, they (the city council) seemed to forget that the local police department had an outdoor range inside the city limits which went into violation the day the ordinance went into effect.

The city and county went in together to build a state of the art indoor range which replaced both the sheriff's department range and the police range.

Only one sporting goods shop in town actually built an indoor range, and the public is allowed to use the City/County range for a small fee that actually goes toward public works, split 50/50.

So, IF the city of Chicago which has an indoor range for the Police Department would open the range to the public for a fee it would solve the problem.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: More unconstitutional antigun bullshit - 12/21/2010 10:39:41 AM

graceadieu

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From: Maryland
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I don't see anything at ALL wrong with requiring people who own deadly weapons to know how to correctly and safely use them. A gun is at least as dangerous as a car, and I think they should be regulated similarly. But if they've also banned ranges and made it impossible for people to get that experience, that's pretty lame and unfair.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 20

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