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RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 10:02:27 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		This is going to be very blunt, and very direct... There is no way to know whether he is in denial without talking to him about this. If you have a tape, it seems to me that it would have to be an awfully deep denial to allow it to be filmed and still say that it hasn't happened. Just because he hasn't discussed it with -you- doesn't mean he's in denial. It may just mean that he doesn't think it's any of your business... frankly, that is something that is an "owner's call". We don't make any bones around here about the fact that there will be multiple servants around, and that they'll serve in a variety of ways, and that sometimes, their service will overlap -- but others handle it other ways. You also don't know -when- this was happening. It may have happened before you even came around, and he may not have found it important enough to have to bring up, especially if it didn't impact your relationship together. We can't know these things, because you didn't share all the details -- which is completely up to you, but it makes it hard to make any kind of judgement, without full information. From here, it's up to you. You won't know until you ask.

For yourself, if you are worried about STDs, get tested and ask him to get tested regularly. If you are uncomfortable with the terms of your servitude, ask for an opportunity to re-negotiate. If you aren't willing to do what you =know= you need to do for yourself, then why ask for advice here. If the re-negotiation of terms doesn't work for you, walk away. Yielding in service is not a call to be ignorant. If you can't deal with the terms, you don't belong in that relationship, and you dont' do yourself or your owner any benefit by "playing along" in misery or raising a cloud of drama.

The only way to find the answers to your questions is to ask the individual who is most involved with the questions. The risk of STDs isn't any higher with limited, clean partners in a same-sex encounter than they are with limited, clean partners in a hetero encounter. If both parties are practicing safe sex, both parties are as protected as they can be, regardless of gender. Hopefully, whether or not there are multiple partners, all the parties in the relationship are making sure that they are physically healthy on a regular basis.

If you can't talk to your owner about this, what they heck are you doing with that person as your -owner-? If you can't be honest in your own home, with the person who owns your body and is responsible for your well-being as you are for his, what kind of a relationship is that, and why do you stay?... and if you -can- talk to him about it, and are dragging it out on here without discussing it with him first, what does that say about you, and your trustworthiness and honorability as a servant in his home?

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to Divinesub)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 12:32:35 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Divinesub

As a submissive do you ignore this trend ?  What if it is a hard limit for you and the Master lies to you?


Regardless of your orientation, if you have a hard limit and your partner ignores it and lies to you about it, you are justified in booting your partner to the curb. In _my_ world that's a breach of contract and grounds for automatic dismissal.

If you choose to, you may renegotiate the relationship.

Again, in MY world, he would get tested immediately for HIV and other STD's, be cut off sexually for at LEAST 6 - 8 weeks, he would be paying for STD tests for himself and you at the end of that 6 - 8 week period. 

Unsafe sex with multiple partners is not acceptable in my world.  He wouldn't be part of my world at all at this point.

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to Divinesub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 12:39:03 PM   
unquenchable


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Divinesub

As a submissive do you ignore this trend ?  What if it is a hard limit for you and the Master lies to you?



I am moving all the way down to the question at the end....

If you cannot communicate with someone you say OWNS you........(fill in the blanks)

NEVER ignore anything, Communication, Communication.................................................................

un-------------

(in reply to Divinesub)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 12:40:06 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		That's how I would view it Geoff. If I were presented with pictures showing my slave having unprotected sex with strangers-totally withoutmy approval and knowledge-she'd be confronted with it-and out the door the same day.

Some things simply damage faith too much to be forgiven.

Breaking faith, AND putting my life at risk, would constitute a double whammy that could not be recovered from.

(in reply to EvilGeoff)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 1:49:05 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

That's how I would view it Geoff. If I were presented with pictures showing my slave having unprotected sex with strangers-totally withoutmy approval and knowledge-she'd be confronted with it-and out the door the same day.

Some things simply damage faith too much to be forgiven.

Breaking faith, AND putting my life at risk, would constitute a double whammy that could not be recovered from.


In agreement with you here.... as I stated... when I feel my health is possible at risk... fuck protocol.... I want answers.

Someone said something about getting tested once.... sense I didn't yell go get tested... I did state I wanted answers... that included getting tested...not once.. but multiple times.

As Lady Z said... and a few others... Like Mr D.... we really only have once side of this story... so as to not say I am jumping to conclusions... I'm responding to the information at hand..... not what might be going on that we're not aware of. Just strictly on the OP> I would not care how old those pics were... I would still want to know answers.... specially sense being tested only 1 time doesn't always tell what's going on.

And yes... STDs can be rounded with all partners... not just ones ingaging in same sex. Now a days... yes you damn near need to be dipped in lye and show proff of being tested every 3-6 months... before bedding any damn body. And should not be done bare back until you  know there's no others involved... and all are cleaned... and only then.... as long as everyones majorly sure. Then there's still late game risks involved. Because like condoms and pregnacy..... it's not full proof..... as the same goes for STDs... not fool proof.

As for Mr D... it's been awhile sense I've disagreed... or voiced my disagreement with you... some Doms seem to think.... all because he's the Dom... everything is so right... and nothing is wrong.. in anything they do... and or say.... HORSESHIT.... there are lots of threads over submissives should stop thinking their Owners are mind readers.... and how we have rights to stand up for our own safety... we're told... communicate... talk it out... etc.... but then we're told... "you're my slave... it's none of your damn business".... again.... BULLSHIT... my health... my feels... my emotions... are my business..but then again... i'm just a submissive... not a slave.. i'm not putting my whole life in ones hands... and forgetting the fact... that for once.. he just very well might be wrong .... or not thinking it all the way through.... after all.... They are only human and subject to making mistakes as well.....

I know i'm gonna get flamed over this one... but damn... you can't have it both ways... these catch 22's. get fricking boring after awhile.....

Edited to add.... going for ice cream... might get a little hot and  I need something to cool down with....


< Message edited by truesub4u -- 4/30/2006 1:50:14 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 2:23:37 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

As for Mr D... it's been awhile sense I've disagreed... or voiced my disagreement with you... some Doms seem to think.... all because he's the Dom... everything is so right... and nothing is wrong.. in anything they do... and or say.... HORSESHIT.... there are lots of threads over submissives should stop thinking their Owners are mind readers.... and how we have rights to stand up for our own safety... we're told... communicate... talk it out... etc.... but then we're told... "you're my slave... it's none of your damn business".... again.... BULLSHIT... my health... my feels... my emotions... are my business..but then again... i'm just a submissive... not a slave.. i'm not putting my whole life in ones hands... and forgetting the fact... that for once.. he just very well might be wrong .... or not thinking it all the way through.... after all.... They are only human and subject to making mistakes as well.....


For me, ther is no "catch-22". The thing that so many miss in this equation is that it -is- the owner's right to say "this is none of your business"... at the same time, it is the servant's responsibility to him or herself to know whether or not he or she can live with that... if an individual chooses to stay in that situation after hearing "it's none of your business", then he or she is agreeing that it is none of his/her business and at that point, has agreed, tacitly, to let it go. If he or she doesn't agree that it's none of his or her business, then the choices become more complicated, because in most cases, if the owner won't respond to the requests for information, the only real solution is to say "I can't live under these circumstances" and then back it up by walking out the door.

If an owner gives a command, the servant requests clarification because the command exceeds what he or she is willing to do, and the owner refuses to clarify, that is the owner's right. The owner as well as the servant have to live with the consequences of that decision, and for an owner, it may very well mean losing that servant. If the owner is willing to clam up and take that risk, then he or she deserves whatever happens as a result. We all make choices, and sometimes, we make -stupid- choices, or repeat ineffective and self-damaging behaviors, but a person won't stop doing things that way until it stops working for him or her. Losing a servant may be the thing that lets that owner know that that behavior isn't working -- and if losing the first servant doesn't do it, losing a series of servants to his or her own beligerence should be a wake-up call at some point.

Despite the prevalence (both by dominant individuals and by the submissive individuals themselves) to perceive submissive individuals of any ilk as victims in this process, that is just not true. Every one of those who submit makes the choice to do so, and has to deal with the repercussions of that submission... give it up too soon, and an individual may find him or herself in a messy situation, with fewer choices than he or she would like. If a servant isn't getting answers (or any other need) met and can't live with that -- with the insecurity, the fear, the mistrust, the anger or WHATEVER, then it isn't the right place to be, and no amount of asking for opinions is going to ameliorate the need to assess the situation for oneself and make some hard decisions about what one can live with or not.

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 2:28:55 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		Oh wow.  Well, simply put.  If the Dominant OR the submissive lies about monogamy... it's not only a health-risk...it's unacceptable.  This lifestyle is supposed to be about trust, honor, and respect.  If i were in that situation, i'd give my collar back.  ~sighs~  And then i'd run and get tested for anything that there was to be tested on.

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 2:30:30 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Lady Z...I agree with most of your post there... specially the last part.

I don't see it as a catch 22... but I tried to word it so others could see where I was going with that.... sort of damned if you do... damned if you don't... so it's time to just be damned and see what happens...


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 2:43:59 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Harsh as it may sound I tend to agree with MrDiscipline, Mercandbeth, and Lady Zephyr have had to say.

A lot of accusations were made, but there are far too few facts.  It is not all that uncommon for individuals on both sides of the / to experiment with their sexuality.  We don't know when these pictures or video tapes were taken... it could be 10 years in his past for all we know.  There's also no evidence that this is happening now.  To say he is in denial when the tapes / pictures were in his dungeon where they could be easily viewed it doesn't sound like any form of denial I'm aware of.

There's just too little information here to make judgements and far too many accusations and too much jumping to conclusions.

Ultimately the best advice is for the OP to talk to her owner and discuss it.  Find out directly from him what the facts are.  If he refuses to talk at that point, then (and only then) should she consider leaving the relationship.

Until that conversation happens, for all we know this a lot of hysteria about nothing.  It'd be a shame to advice someone to end a relationship over a misunderstanding.  Regardless the OP needs to stop playing the role of the victim and take some responsibility for herself.  And her chief responsibility at this point is to find out what the facts really are.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Divinesub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 2:55:17 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Divinesub

This is a general question that is really disturbing to me.  If you are owned by a Master that refuses to admit his sexuality how do you handle it?   If he uses BDSM as a way of not admitting his bi-sexuality. (Submissive and Slaves are Submissives and Slaves regardless of gender).  However, if he is having sex(not something I am guessing at, I actually saw pics of him and another man at his private dungeon which included video of them having sex) and ongoing relationship with them versus just "playing" doesn't that speak towards his sexuality?

First off, YOU don't have to deal with his sexuality at all. Thats for him to do. If he wants your help, he'll ask you for it. Until then, mind your own business and his sexuality isn't your business until he says it is.
Secondly, you state that you've seen pics and video of him playing with another man. Another MAN, not men. How do you know it wasn't a D/s relationship he had because he was bi-curious and discovered it wasn't for him?

quote:

I think that the worry about STD's are greater because of his denial stage. (men in denial will be less cautious then those that openly accept their sexuality).  What if there  have been several men and what if has been to swinger parties where he has participated with  trans and men what if  was bareback for the event?

The worry about STD's is greater because it's at the forefront of your mind. You make accusations here that are unfounded. IF there were other men. IF he has been to swinger parties. You offer nothing to back these claims.
This entire post seems to have a very anti-gay theme to it as well. You aren't worried that he might have had past D/s relationships when other women, just men. Very bigoted of you.

quote:

As a submissive do you ignore this trend ?  What if it is a hard limit for you and the Master lies to you?

Did you state that having male submissives in the past were a hard limit? Does he know it's a hard limit? Did you state it to him directly? You didn't mention it as a hard limit in this post till the end as a side note. Did you do the same to him? It doesn't seem so much a "lie" as it is an imagined "betrayal" that you're feeling hurt from.
And since I'm on the betrayal note, just how did you come across these pics and video? Did you just "find" them as you were going through his things? Were they put away somewhere? It seems you betrayed his trust and searched his things and found something you shouldn't have. Now you want to throw what you found in his face when maybe you were in things you shouldn't have been. See, this whole "lets assume the worse" tactic goes both ways and throws mud everywhere. You come out looking no better then the one you do it to.


Oh yes, lets attack the submissive who came here seeking advice now. I'm sure that will help the situation ...

Divinesub, if I were you I would approach him with the pictures and just ask him flat out if its something he did in the past or if its a current thing. You do have the right to know ... You know him better than we do so you'll also probably be able to tell if he's lying or not.


I may be missing something here but I find it difficult to see just how MrDiscipline was *attacking* the OP. Asking pertinant questions in a pragmatic way is more enlightening than a general emotional response. It is *blowing away the smoke* and responding to a post with advice, when the answers to those questions aren't there, is rather a waste of energy.

agirl



(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 3:06:46 PM   
BrianSenior


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44


[entire post seems to have a very anti-gay theme to it as well. You aren't worried that he might have had past D/s relationships when other women, just men. Very bigoted of you.




Thats how I seen it ~BK~

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Dominance and submission - 4/30/2006 10:39:05 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		In the words of the great poet Shaggy.

          "It wasn't me"

K

(in reply to BrianSenior)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 1:22:06 AM   
ServiceNTucson


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Divinesub
What if it is a hard limit for you and the Master lies to you?


Assuming the two of you went into the relationship with the mutual expectation that hard limits would not be broken...
HE broke the contract. Therefore, you are not bound to it.
You can continue to sit back and do nothing.
You can confront him.
Or you can walk.



I have to agree with Ms Proprietrix here.  The matter of his sexuality is far less important than the matter of his lack of honesty.

_____________________________

Harry

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx


www.desertdominion.org

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 4:24:46 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Divinesub
However, if he is having sex(not something I am guessing at, I actually saw pics of him and another man at his private dungeon which included video of them having sex) and ongoing relationship with them versus just "playing" doesn't that speak towards his sexuality?


First, I'd like to say that this post has very little detail to go on. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does limit the relevant advice you're going to receive. It also leaves the advice open to many different interpretations. That said, I'd like to comment on something.
 
In my opinion, a person's sexuality is rarely determined by one or two encounters. For example, My ex husband was molested by an older brother when he was a very small child. After we'd been married for a few years (a wonderful marriage, I will add) he began to trust me enough that he admitted that he was curious about other men. Now he didn't lust after them, masturbate or fantasize about being with men, he was simply curious about other men's bodies and responses. He was terrified that my perceptions of him would change in a negative way. They didn't. I lovingly talked with him, asked questions, and when he decided to "explore" with one of my male slaves, I arranged it and was there while it happened. I have to admit, it was one of the most beautiful experiences I've ever witnessed. My husband and my slave ended up not "going all the way", but there were hours of caressing and talking, culminating in a little oral action.
 
My husband was more relaxed the next morning than I'd ever seen him. He looked at me and said "Kathy, I'm not gay! I really know now that that's not who I am..." Now he was probably one of the least judgemental people I've ever known, and has had a healthy blend of straight, gay, bi, D/s, and vanilla friends, but somehow he had gotten the idea that he might be bi in his mind and until he actually explored, he couldn't relax within his own skin.
 
He and I are divorced, but very close (I need this lifestyle and he needs "normal" ~smiles~) and when he remarried he asked me not to ever tell his wife about that night. I promised willingly, because I know him, and I know that some day when the trust is in place and he's comfortable, he'll tell her. IF that day never arrives, then I don't think that it's my place to share that information about him.
 
My point is this - The video might be from the past. If there's a time stamp on it, then I may be wrong, and you should ask him to tell you about this relationship. If this relationship was in the past, even if the other person is a friend in his life now, he may have explored the possibility, but that does not mean he is bisexual now. It dosen't mean he's in denial, it simply means he was eliminating the possibility that he is sexually or emotionally interested in men.
 
No one on this forum can answer the issue as well as your Master can... go to him, ask him, trust him to be honest with you. You'll only hurt yourself and him by accusing and dishonoring him if it turns out to be a past relationship that he chose not to divulge to anyone ever again.
 
I've expressed this many times before... My true friends believe the best of me until faced with proof to the contrary... and if they believe the worst, they weren't true friends.... That goes for those we love as well.
 
Lady Kathryn
Athens Ga.  

(in reply to Divinesub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 4:39:03 AM   
Divinesub


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/16/2006
Status: offline 		Mr.Discipline Sir,

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to the post.  You are correct, his sexuality is his affair.  However, as his submissive that has a hard limit he dishonest acts made them mind.  I was previously on Collarme and in my profile indicated that it was a hard limit.  There was someone here that contacted me that is an openly bi MASTER and wanted to communicate with  me.  I was already owned, indicate as such to him and told him that his sexuality precluded that we would never be more than friends.  A couple of months past and he contacted me again, asking me whether I had soften my hard limits, the answer was no.  Then he told me that my MASTER was bi, they recently were at a party together in which my Master had sex bareback with a man.  I knew he wasn't lying to me.  My MASTER had lie about his whereabouts a couple of nights before that and returned home at 6 AM.  The same night as the party.  It fit, there is no way that he could have known about him being out unless he saw him. 

The next couple of days I DID search his belongings - he accidentally left his computer on and ran to the store.  A male IM him asking about equipment to wear.  I read the history and it was clear that this was something on going and they have had sex.  My Master loves taking pictures, so I knew that if he had them they would be on his computer.  I never found them.  I dismissed it, went on with the relationship, with this mistrust still int he back of  my mind.  I never searched his computer again (probably out of fear of actually finding something).  

A couple of weeks ago he told me that he was going out of town, I knew that he was lying to me because I was already informed of the party that he was throwing.  He indeed did have his "goodie" bag pack for traveling.  I DID look at his camera and I DID see him with a man, having bareback sex (admittedly I was turned on) .  I know that I have seen this man before, and it was the last time I was on his computer, which was months ago. 

Never confronted him about it but we did start having problems with me constantly calling him a liar.  Months ago we were suppose to talk and renegotiate our relationship.  He has postponed it indefintely. 

I have no problem with him being gay.  We can be the best of friends with no problems.  I really have little problems with him sleeping with everything in the room.  I DO take issue to him lying to me.  There was absolutely no reason why he had to.  A week after I had saw the pictures, he made a reference to bi MASTER being a hard limit for me.  So he is well aware of that being an issue for me.  He knew from the beginning that STD's are a concern for me.  He chose to lie and he chose to put me at risk. 

Thank you all for commenting.  My real struggle was whether or not as a submissive I had violated some code for wanting him to tell me the truth (was I entitled to it) or whether or not my lack of trust was a clear indication that I wasn't worthy of this relationship.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 6:55:36 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		divinesub,

quote:

A couple of months past and he contacted me again, asking me whether I had soften my hard limits, the answer was no.  Then he told me that my MASTER was bi, they recently were at a party together in which my Master had sex bareback with a man. I knew he wasn't lying to me.  My MASTER had lie about his whereabouts a couple of nights before that and returned home at 6 AM.  The same night as the party.  It fit, there is no way that he could have known about him being out unless he saw him.
So you believed a man that is obviously jealous and trying to take you from your Master, over your Master? How do you know your Master was lieing? There is no actual proof in this statement. Just him vs. him statements and you decided some jackass on the computer was more believable then your Master. See, for me, loyalty is a hard limit. If you can't weather a storm of accusations from one asshole on a computer then you really don't deserve have Dom. This is what I call being a doormat.

quote:

The next couple of days I DID search his belongings - he accidentally left his computer on and ran to the store.  A male IM him asking about equipment to wear.  I read the history and it was clear that this was something on going and they have had sex.  My Master loves taking pictures, so I knew that if he had them they would be on his computer.  I never found them.  I dismissed it, went on with the relationship, with this mistrust still int he back of  my mind.  I never searched his computer again (probably out of fear of actually finding something).
So you searched his computer, didn't find the proof AND you didn't try to talk to him about what going on in your head? What you should've said here is that you went on in destroying your relationship.

quote:

A couple of weeks ago he told me that he was going out of town, I knew that he was lying to me because I was already informed of the party that he was throwing.  He indeed did have his "goodie" bag pack for traveling.  I DID look at his camera and I DID see him with a man, having bareback sex (admittedly I was turned on) .  I know that I have seen this man before, and it was the last time I was on his computer, which was months ago.
Here, once again you show that you can't be trusted in any capacity. You not only searched his things but you still don't talk to him about what you "know" to be going on.

quote:

Never confronted him about it but we did start having problems with me constantly calling him a liar.  Months ago we were suppose to talk and renegotiate our relationship.  He has postponed it indefintely.
I wouldn't even have postponed it. You'd be gone. Understand that I don't condone his actions at all. What he did was wrong on all counts. But I don't condone yours either. You had just a big a hand in destroying the relationship as he did.

quote:

I have no problem with him being gay.  We can be the best of friends with no problems.
If you have no problem with him being gay, then why can't you submit to him if he was? Why did you feel you had to bring it up in a public forum?

quote:

I really have little problems with him sleeping with everything in the room.
Little problem is still a problem and if you could over look it, you wouldn't have brought it up.

quote:

I DO take issue to him lying to me.
If you took issue with it, why didn't you talk to him about it?

quote:

There was absolutely no reason why he had to.
Yes there was. Your reaction to him being bi was plenty of reason to him. No one likes the face of a bigot, especially if it's someone we care about.

quote:

He knew from the beginning that STD's are a concern for me.  He chose to lie and he chose to put me at risk.
So again I ask, if it was a woman, would you have been alright about it? Do you honestly think that you're at any less of a risk if he was sticking his wee-wily in some other woman as deceitful as you are? And you chose to put yourself at risk more then he did. You're the one that didn't talk to him in the first place when it all started happening. When you choose not to talk to him, you choose the possible consequences. Including STD's. That last statement is just you trying to pawn off the responsibilty of it.

I still see a very bigoted tone in your messeges. It was never about the fact that he lied. . The real problem was that he was bi-sexual and you can't seem to reconcil that with-in yourself.

quote:

I had violated some code for wanting him to tell me the truth
The "codes" you violated were of trust and honesty to him and yourself. If you want the truth from him, you should've asked him about it instead of sneaking around, searching his things and trying to pawn off your responisibility in the relationship.

quote:

or whether or not my lack of trust was a clear indication that I wasn't worthy of this relationship.
Your lack of trust and bigoted nature is a clear indication that you shouldn't be in any relationship with anyone until you deal with it.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Divinesub)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 11:01:22 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		MrDiscipline... I agree wholeheartedly that loyalty is a "hard limit"...
 
I learned early to watch for dishonesty, and many of the other red flags that show a person has a flawed character. For some reason I've only recently begun to realize disloyalty is almost as huge as dishonesty... Loyalty comes in many forms, and with so many players (both online and offline) I think we've become so jaded that "expecting the worst of someone absent any real evidence" is commonplace.
 
Loyalty can be evident in every human relationship from your soulmate to your mailman, yet few people exercise it and even fewer seem to recognize and appreciate it when it's present. 
 
I have recently lost a close friend because his slave accused me of being abusive after observing a resistance play situation between me and my cubby. Now I trusted that my Friend would be as motivated to work this out as I was... That He'd quickly make arrangements for us to sit down and sort this "misunderstanding" out. That both cubby and I would have the opportunity to explain the dynamics of our relationship so that she would be able to relax and chalk it up to "my kink is not necessarily your kink".
 
Rather than help to sort this out (this happened on new years eve) He has "circled the wagons" around his girl, basically protecting her and her erroneous opinions. ~sigh~ I do not blame the girl, she is new and inexperienced. I have dropped the issue, and my friend and I (only this week) began polite chat again, but I find myself looking at my relationship with him in a whole new light. This man was going to be listed on my living will... He was going to be the keyholder to the most precious thing in my world - my slave cubby. Now I find that even light discussion pains me because I feel that when he had an opportunity to be loyal to me and her, he dropped the ball... ~sigh~ I don't know how to go forward and pretend that this issue isn't between us.
 
We have opportunities every day to be loyal, to believe in people... the interesting thing is, sometimes we take our relationships for granted until they are threatened with disloyalty... 

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 1:29:34 PM   
Divinesub


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/16/2006
Status: offline 		Mr Discipline Sir,

You are right, I am just as much to blame for the crumbling of this relationship as he is.  And yes, I did believe someone that was upfront and very honest with me over someone that had constantly lied to me.  It wasn't the first time he had openly lied to me.  The person on the internet would not have known that he was out if he had not seen him.  So yeah, it was easy to believe me.

Mr Discipline, I did try talking to him about it.  I tried renegotiating our relationship, he asked to postpone the talk until a better time.  I pushed, I proded and I begged for us to have the conversation.   I didn't find what I was looking for,(clips from this particular party) but I did find plenty of things, that he lied about.

So was the crime searching or not discussing?  From day one the rule had been, if I 'found' something, whether accidental or through snooping it was on me to deal with it.  It wouldn't be his problem.  Unlike him, I stuck to the original agreement through the very end.

I am gone Mr. Discipline - truth be told he never really wanted me.  He proved that over and over  and over again.

I had problems submitting to a liar, not a gay man.  I would not choose a gay Master, because it would always be a sex issue.  I brought it up in a public forum because I needed to know if this was typical of Masters and I was just a naive sub or if this really was a problem.  I know now that it was a problem and my trust issues ran far deeper than I was willing to admit before you confronted me with them. Thank you Sir.

I did talk to him about his lying.  I was even disciplined for the discussion.  This clearly is not a man that wanted to have this conversation.  He wasn't about to admit to me or anyone that he is bi.  I moved a couple of states to be with him, the one thing that he knew like he knew his name was that I loved him and that I would be there for him.  He doesn't face a bigot in me, despite what you believe, he knows me, he knows that it would have altered our relationship but his secret would have been safe and we would still be friends.

You are right, my being silent made me to blame as much as him.  And know I believe that he put every woman he has ever lied to as well as every man he as ever lied to at risk.  I think that DOM's that use dominance as a way to harm people that would trust them are evil. 

I am willing to take every heap of abuse that you wish to throw on me for his actions.  I am willing to own up to my own actions.  However, it won't change simple things like what he did was wrong.  What I did was wrong, and stupid.  And the next person that has a question or an issue with their Master will think twice about seeking advice in a community that will condone a MASTER but condemn a submissive.  At least I know that I will. 

Mr Discipline,  I just read your profile so I now understand your post a little bit better.  And it isn't about being gay, it is about being hones.


< Message edited by Divinesub -- 5/1/2006 1:34:16 PM >

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 1:35:16 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		While I understand the necessity of a partner admitting that s/he has been sexually active with others, if sexual monogamy was agreed upon, I don't see any reason thtat someone should be "forced" to admit his bisexuality.

Perhaps s/he doesn't think of him/herself as bisexual. I know many who believe that an -act- isn't inherently a sexual orientation. That is, one can be sexual with the same gender, but not be romantically attracted to that gender. I would call that person straight, becaue s/he forms romantic attachments with only the opposite gender.

While I think it -is- important to be clear about whether there will be sexual monogamy or not, simply for health reasons, his orientation is his own. There's no reason to force identification with a sexuality he doesn't see himself as.


_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Dominance and submission - 5/1/2006 2:27:34 PM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixandnika

I have to ask why does everyone say get tested like it is a tell all. Yes, IF you think you may have been exposed to a sexually transmitted disease you should get tested not once but every 6mths. Just because you come up clean the first time doesn't mean anything. Some STDs take 6mths or longer to show up on tests. I would urge people not to think that simply getting tested once is enough - if you are in fear of exposure.
 
Nika{Phoenix}


Absolutely. Men who say to me they have a certificate to prove testing..... one sighs. They're supposed to be clever men.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)
Profile   Post #: 40
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