Documentary on 9-11

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MasterRenegade77 -> Documentary on 9-11 (4/30/2006 10:18:20 AM)
I watched this Documentary on our Public Access Channel This evening... Hear The questions posed as to the truth about 9-11 "Loose Change is a terrifying, masterful, well paced 9/11 conspiracy documentary that puts Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 to absolute shame." http://www.loosechange911.com/

chicky46 -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (4/30/2006 10:21:10 AM)
the movie Flight 93 is on right now... interesting indeed

mistoferin -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (4/30/2006 1:30:00 PM)
ummmm....this is exactly what the other current thread (that should have by all rights died the quick death it deserved) is about. The word "documentary" implies a basis in documented fact. This film is not a documentary....it is a conspiracy theory. According to news reports it is popular with the very young student population though.

MasterRenegade77 -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (4/30/2006 3:08:01 PM)
There are Plenty of Documented facts on the Video, but of course you wouldn't know this as you've dismissed it out of hand without even veiwing in... I sense a closed mind here!!!

Chaingang -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (4/30/2006 4:40:08 PM)
I think it's relevant to these kinds of discussions to recall two short essays written by William S. Burroughs: "Feedback from Watergate to the Garden of Eden" http://archive.groovy.net/dl/elerev.html "The Electronic Revolution" http://archive.groovy.net/dl/elerev2.html The methods of political control are not new. Cicero talks about them. Machiavelli talks about them. The Marquis Donatien Alphonse François de Sade talks about them. Why is anyone surprised? The whole point of "Loose Change" is simply to raise questions - not to provide a set of pat answers, which is what we were sold from the first. Simply put: some of those media repeated pat answers do not make much sense. I do not personally claim to know what happened on that terrible day, but I also do not tacitly accept the "answers" provided by this administration or the media which parrots its words - just as I never accepted the words or evidence of US Secretary of State Colin Powell before the UN as he presented the case for war because everyone knew it was a crock of shit ("Now He Tells Us" http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/34861/). I quote this from another site from the comments of "JudiciousH": It's not that Osama didn't arrange for planes to crash into the WTC; it's just that the fact that he did so doesn't mean that America's traditional freedoms are obsolete, that torture and aggressive war are justified, that America has no moral obligations to other countries, and so on. http://blog.davidlynch.com:16080/weblog/dl/IQ29-11/?permalink=LooseChange2ndEdition.html&page=comments One last point: I am really tired of the old canard about "conspiracy theories." Fuck, a marriage is a conspiracy to have a family. The American Revolution was a conspiracy (and an act of treason depending on your viewpoint) to start a country. Everything people do is a kind of conspiracy - most people call it "cooperation." So big fucking deal - any time two or more people get together to do a thing they could be said to be "working cooperatively" or enagaged in a ::gasp:: "conspiracy"! Practically every political achievement the world has ever seen is the product of such "cooperation" or "conspiracy." So what? And you know what's twice as funny? How conspiracies are always claimed as being difficult to carry out because a large group of conspirators cannot keep silent and will be found out. Hey you know what: loose lips sink ships, children. Couple that with media control and you have won the day already. Most members of a conspiracy can actually shut the fuck up, and those that cannot can be subverted via media control or even picked off if need be. One by one...

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (4/30/2006 5:43:18 PM)
Watching in a sec, will report back shortly[:)]

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 1:52:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Watching in a sec, will report back shortly[:)] Watched it, it is pretty good, the best as far as presenting a case without all the blowhard rhetoric. I recommend it A+, now I got to try and find some answers for the anomalies pointed out [:@]

mistoferin -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 10:45:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77 I sense a closed mind here!!! With all due respect, you assume a lot. If you indeed check out the other thread you will see that it has been going on for ample time for everyone on it to have researched the issue enough to draw their own conclusions. Just because my conclusions may not coincide with your own, it is not indicative of a closed mind. I am sure that you know what they say about when you assume.........

MasterRenegade77 -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 11:16:15 AM)
If you're speaking of the thread on the pentagon footage, that's in this Documentary too, (Which BTW I saw on Bangedup.com first about 18 months ago) this one is Much deeper & informative it also has scientific facts & footage that lend creedance to the Inside Job Conspiracy Theory!!!

pollux -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 12:26:19 PM)
Popular Mechanics article debunking several of the most popular conspiracy theories and/or "discrepancies" Numerous articles from snopes.com, which investigated several popular 9/11 "rumors": Did a Boeing 757 really cause the damage to the Pentagon on September 11? Were FEMA workers dispatched to New York City the day before the 9/11 attacks? Does Microsoft Wingdings font contain hidden anti-Semitic codes and references to September 11? Did 4,000 Jews stay home from work on September 11? Engineers at Purdue University use digital simulation tools to recreate and analyze the 757 crash at the Pentagon NEW YORK CITY—The Commerce Department’s National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) today presented its analysis of how the World Trade Center (WTC) towers collapsed after two aircraft were flown into the buildings by terrorists on Sept. 11, 2001. This is the most detailed examination of a building failure ever conducted. PBS' NOVA: Why The Towers Fell And this is my absolute no-holds-barred favorite 9/11 conspiracy debunking website. It is authored by a 9/11 conspiracy theorist himself, who admits that theories about the Penatagon being attacked by something other than a 757 are so flimsy and strongly contradicted by evidence that they MUST BE a booby-trap designed to ensnare, divide, and discredit conspiracy theorists!

Chaingang -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 3:38:26 PM)
Maybe, maybe, maybe... You don't think it's strange that all of this was engineered and accomplished by genius hijackers whose only weapons were box cutters? Why not guns? Why not a significantly plastic gun like a Glock in particular? Why not special terrorist engineered zip-guns? I mean, those guys were terrorists, right? I just can't get my head around that fact that a few planes worth of people were overcome with dudes with box cutters. Consider the thoughts of some beefy man aboard one of those planes... "Wow, I might be about to die in a plane. What are these nutty guys up to. Hmmm, I could probably use that briefcase over there as a shield and knock that guy on his ass. Maybe I could throw some overcoats on him while I kick him to death. Better not risk it though, I might screw up my manicure..." Can I have a show of hands of people that think it's possible for even a single individual to overcome another person with a box cutter? Do any hands go down if I specify that it can be done even without any significant injury? "Reconciled" means: To settle or resolve, To bring (oneself) to accept, To make compatible or consistent. See synonyms at adapt. BTW, I am not one who says the official story cannot be correct; I am one that says the official story smells badly. The facts as presented in the official story do not make an enormous amount of common sense - so they have to reconcile the supposed facts with what seems logical to most people. And it's not over just one issue - but numerous issues. So almost each and every time some more ordinary version of the story doesn't add up, there is some special CSI type explanation for it. Maybe... BTW, Pollux - a lot of those links are mere straw man bullshit. Did you think we wouldn't notice? At least two or three of those links were included to make these ideas seem especialy ridiculous or racist. Don't be tedious and at least discuss the subject seriously. FWIW, I actually found many of those links no more persuasive than other information I have seen.

pollux -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 5:16:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang BTW, Pollux - a lot of those links are mere straw man bullshit. Did you think we wouldn't notice? At least two or three of those links were included to make these ideas seem especialy ridiculous or racist. Don't be tedious and at least discuss the subject seriously. Oh, I'm serious as a heart attack. Strawmen? WTF are you talking about? The Snopes articles? I put "September 11 conspiracy" in their search box and those are 4 of the first 5 results you get back (the 5th dealt with a supposed plot on July 11, 2002). It's not my fault that the 9/11 conspiracy world seems to attract lunatic nutjobs who are willing to blame 9/11 on everything from interdimensional beings to the Illuminati to an evil right-wing neoconservative cabal to Microsoft to the Mossad to space aliens to...everything except who and what actually caused it. quote: FWIW, I actually found many of those links no more persuasive than other information I have seen. If you assign the same credibility to the Kean Commission report, the NIST report, the NOVA program, and the Purdue University results to the conspiracy nonsense that's out there, I'm afraid it's you that's not serious.

Chaingang -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 5:24:42 PM)
That's right, Pollux - be a good little boy and never question authority. You may now lick my boots.

pollux -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 5:31:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang That's right, Pollux - be a good little boy and never question authority. You may now lick my boots. Classy.

Chaingang -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 5:45:49 PM)
Just ask yourself Pollux: Cui bono?

Chaingang -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 6:05:49 PM)
More background on the movie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Truth_Movement This site is interesting both for its criticism and commentary: http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/12/1787340.php

subrob1967 -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 8:22:41 PM)
quote: "Also, take nothing we say at face value. " This is all I needed to see on the Loose Change website. http://www.loosechange911.com/ These conspiracy theories are so bad, that even Maxim...You know that ultra right wing soft core porn mag[8\|] has debunked all of the questions raised by these wack jobs. Maxim, Snopes, Popular Mechanics, & Scientific American have all denounced these theories.

Alumbrado -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 8:46:58 PM)
And let us not forget that bastion of mindless obedience to authority, the skeptic's forum over at JREF... http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102 If anyone has an hour or so to wade though the pages of debunking over there.

Pavel -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 9:14:10 PM)
There's a difference between questioning authority, and questioning reality. Just because someone it commonly accepted, or endorsed by people in power, does not automatically mean that some grand sneaky plot is in the works. If you're going to look for holes in the 9-11 story, then you must apply the same level of proof to anyone claiming events happened otherwise.

pollux -> RE: Documentary on 9-11 (5/1/2006 9:57:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado And let us not forget that bastion of mindless obedience to authority, the skeptic's forum over at JREF... http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53102 If anyone has an hour or so to wade though the pages of debunking over there. OMG. I'm dying over here. I've never seen such a schooling in my life. Thanks for that link.

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