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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 11:40:14 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
So, are they or are they not expecting checks?
And Canada and the U.S. are very clean countries with the exception of a few big cities like L.A.
You should be directing your coimments to Mexico on a Mexican site or Brazil on a Brazilian site.
Most countries are just sitting on their asses expecting U.S. Taxpayers to "do something."

Or perhaps I should learn Mandarin and visit a Chinese site? Have a listen to yourself.

How is money going to fix the climate issues, who on earth outside of your mind thinks that?


Correct, you need to be talking to countries other than the U.S. Canada or most European countries.
If all those other countries were as clean as us there wouldn't be a pollution problem.
You don't chastize the best and praise the worst!

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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 1:52:53 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		What planet are you on to think the US is amongst the best regarding this issue?

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 2:55:55 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
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Status: offline 		I really don't want to, but I have to agree with slavemaybe.

Comparing the weight of apples to the weight of watermelons, America's a very high producer of environmental toxins; debatably not the highest, but in the tops. Comparing apples to apples, we make a shitload more apples and produce a tiny bit less waste doing so than comparable industry; the green movement has been making some headway. Unfortunately, our agricultural and residential pollution far and away exceed the world's. On the plus side America has 6.5% of the world's land, but a bit over 10% of its protected wild lands, meaning we're twice the world average on that front. Again, not the greatest - Columbia supposedly has over 70% protected wildlands, tho I'm not sure I believe that statistic - but on the whole, we do a good job there.

The best news for the egg on our face is that we're on a declining pollution trend, whereas nations such as China and India are leapfrogging to the top in pollution production. So we won't be on top for very much longer. On the minus side, we've got a lot of work to do, and we'd kind of be 'succeeding' on the pollution front for the wrong reasons.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 3:05:36 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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I guess I expected too much. The political is more important than science BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT IT THAT WAY, as evidenced by this forum. OK, I'll bite. Go ahead and lay in bed and watch that plasma TV, and buy every piece of fucking junk you can, if you don't you are taking food out of Chinese children's mouths. We must help them.

Well fuck them, I am for US children, their's are their problem. I didn't tell them to fuck. Now with that out of the way, stop getting this attitude that world demand can be met in a totally environmentally friendly way, no animal does that. All they care is to survive. We can't just move, we are pretty much stuck. Now here are the choices. We can get our "hands dirty" and have plenty, wealth basically. In case you hadn't noticed, money is one form of wealth for the proletarian, which is we. Take your choice, live good with a bit of dirt or perish in a nice clean place, which won't stay clean forever anyway.

They pollute the air in China, you think they got different air there ? It doesn't matter where you pollute, it is the same ecosystem. Years ago we were thriving compared to today. Now that may have gone a bit too far after that river burning incident (wasn't too far from here). But I swear this is the first time I ever saw a knee jerk reaction take so long.

POLLUTE THIS COUNTRY or we will have alot of problems. To have all these conveniences shipped into our emerald cities full of ivory towers is something we simply cannot keep on doing. Kapeesh ? The manufacture of your Xbox put X liters of nasty shit into the air, X kilograms of nasty shit into the water, and X dollars in the hands of people who are not our countrymen, friends or even anything. Their people are oppressed, but they were worse off before the introduction of the almighty buck. They were fucking starving.

The PTB like this because our own rampant consumerism will eventually starve us and instead of making good money, we will be forced to take pennies a day to survive. We could've maintained prosperity if we had any sense.

We can't govern the world. If we outlaw pollution here, someone else will do it. We will not stay clean, the pollution will come here anyway. Understand ? If we stop warming the globe, someone else will do it. But the agenda is to cripple this country and it's just about done.

Happy now ? Listening to your ipod are ya ? Get the kids lots of toys from China ? Got those fancy cellphones that tie your shoes for ya ? Happy now ? Well there's no food. What we had the government gave away to other countries. No money, the government gave it all to itself. But you gotta watch the news, the game. Bust out that Chinese made plastic card printed and encoded by a Chinese machine with your "number" and make sure you have a bigger car and TV than anyone on the block, as they laugh in your fucking face ! (all the way to the bank)

If you wanna eat eventually you will have to shit. No shipping the shit 10,000 miles away.

So much for that.

T

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 3:17:45 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Stop making assumptions about what I have and how I live.

So are you giving up trying to argue that the environment isn't affected by the industrial output? Have you given up on the op and no longer are trying to explain the warming in terms of the earth's irregular orbit around the sun? Seems you made your mind up then chose one obscure explanation to back it up.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 3:45:34 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		SL4V........, it says FR at the top, that was directed at nobody in particular. Sorry about the "reply to", I thought the FR took care of that.

Actually the whole post was about how quickly this got political. We only have one planet. So you have a yard with one acre. You don't want waste. Ship it to a neighbor. Better make sure they're downhill in case it rains.

This is not directed at anyone in particular, it is the way people think. You can't have your cake and eat it oo. And if we can't have cake I want to know the fucking reason. I don't want this psuedoscience bullshit. Experts my ass, and unless environmental regulations are fully enforced worldwide they are a waste of time.

To get to that stage we must know that we are addressing the problem as directly as possible, and not running on some hunches. And with as many unnoticed vatiables that exist, we can't say for sure that we don't need MORE CO2 in the air ! Too many contradictions. They should shut up until they have it right.

I thought maybe we could explore whether they are actually right rather than ........... well you saw the thread.

T

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/24/2010 3:53:58 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Fair enough, sorry for the misunderstanding.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 6:10:41 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Actually Term is right.  SL4 is spewing poisonous gassing out of his mouth, nose and azz. and WE must bare the brunt of it... his wasteful and decadent life is full and over flowing gluttony in hyper mode.  He uses a clothes dryer when he can hang his clothes on a rack. This is causing global warming.

2.  When lands are returned to the wild- it means they become collateral on the National debt.. the key word to look for on this is "perpetual mineral rights"   That means longer then 99 years.  Just as the sold our roads- they will sell our national parks.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 9:23:57 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Hunky, WTF are you talking about ? SL thought I was addressing him when I was not. Now if you're talking about hot air, Alex is in about third place, Rush is in the lead. The global warming "experts" are all tied for second place.

Isolate your thinking (at will). This shit means nothing, do you think the different absorbtion rates of enegy from the sun has caused global warming or not ? Fuck all this political bullmotherfuckingshit. Yes or no ?

It's possible that the whole world could have the climate of Redwood City, CA if not for our emissions ? I don't think so. the geography just doesn't add up. On the other hand we are talking, in the bigger picture, of people pissing and hissing out CO2 all the time, but that is a fact of life. We live. If this planet can't do it find another. From a political point of view, the issue has been used and is progressing to subjugate us further, to beat us into submission, to take our wealth.

That was not what I was after. People here are doing what "they" do. To take data and present it so to advance their views. I want to know if people agree that global warming is a natural effect, due to the non-synchronization of the Earth's axis. As complex as it is, I tried to keep it simple.

Why is that so fucking difficult ?

T

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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 10:12:32 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yeah- but his dryer is making my head explode!

This carbon spewing is making my head explode.



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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 3:56:08 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
He uses a clothes dryer when he can hang his clothes on a rack. This is causing global warming.

pfft I use a hairdryer to dry my clothes. DON'T YA KNOW?

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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 4:40:42 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

What planet are you on to think the US is amongst the best regarding this issue?


He is on the planet Popeye, silly. I thought you would have guessed that.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 5:22:00 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"America's a very high producer of environmental toxins;"

Yes. The thing to realize is that we produce alot of it in other countries. By being cleaner here, we do not eliminate the mess we just move it somewhere else. Doing that is akin to sweeping the dirt under the rug. What's more it results in a transfer of wealth. That's why I say - fuck it, pollute.

We can't afford this anymore. We want new junk every year, the latest and greatest, well OK, build it here and let our people make the money. When we import so much, the end result is the same - we become a garbage dump. Maybe if we had to live with our own shit, planned obsolesence might not be so popular.

Do I think things should be more expensive ? Ironically yes. But at the same time they should be repairable, reusable and recyclable. This costs money. People always want the lowest price and that is why I say that we, the consumers are part of the problem.

Think of how we build things now. I bought an expensive laser printer because I was tired of being in the two printer a year club. You don't use the thing for a month or so the printhead is ruined. A new printer is $50, the cartridge for the old printer is $50, what do you do ? The most illogical thing possible - buy the new printer.

That's how we are, and have been for some time. Lip service to patriotism, and ship those greenbacks* over the sea. It's what we do best, and it started a long time ago and is fueled by consumerism. Twenty five years ago, when someone was in the store looking at TV sets and the Zenith was $200 and the Sanyo was $150, people put the $50 in their pocket, and were happy about it. It's not that they didn't get a good product, it's something more.

Most people don't even have the something, let alone more.

So, not to bring up the pesky subject - are we making it warmer or is nature ?

T

*the choice of that word is correct today, I think

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 5:26:06 PM   
gman992


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Status: offline 		Yes...the earth is warming that's why I'm freezing my ass in cleveland!!!!!

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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 7:42:23 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Correct, you need to be talking to countries other than the U.S. Canada or most European countries.
If all those other countries were as clean as us there wouldn't be a pollution problem.
You don't chastize the best and praise the worst!


It's nice to see some things never change.

Keep up the good fight Popeye!

Never let facts stand in the way of your misconceptions.



Top 10 Polluting Countries in the World 2010

The world’s top 10 polluters, ranked by their absolute and per-capita greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, according to the International Energy Agency.


No.1 China The world’s biggest CO2 emitter.  In November 2009 China announced that it will reduce its carbon intensity 40 to 45 percent by 2020.
No.2 United States USA the world’s second biggest CO2 emitter. The US has 4% of the world’s population but they produce about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions.
No.3 Russia Russia has improved its planning to reduce greenhouse gas emissions
No.4 India India announced that it will reduce its emission intensity by 20-25 percent by 2020 from the 2005 level. India’s emissions intensity is already lower than other emerging economies and had decreased 17.6 percent between 1990 and 2005.
No.5 Japan Japan, the world’s fifth-biggest greenhouse gas emitter, announced in June this year that it will target a cut in emissions by 15 percent by 2020 from 2005 levels. Japanese businesses argue that their factories are already among the world’s most energy-efficient and that the country will struggle to cut greenhouse gas emissions
No.6 Germany the world’s sixth biggest greenhouse gas emitter. The German government established a mechanism for ending the use of nuclear power over the next 15 years; government working to meet EU commitment to identify nature preservation areas in line with the EU’s Flora, Fauna, and Habitat directive
No.7 Canada The province of Alberta is Canada’s top polluter as of May 2007. The province, with 10% of Canada’s population, contributes 40% of climate-warming gases of the country. It is where seven of the top ten polluters of the country are located, including Syncrude and Suncor. Because half of all emissions in Canada are from industries, environmentalists target them instead of consumers.
No.8 Britain The nation has met Kyoto Protocol target of a 12.5% reduction from 1990 levels and intends to meet the legally binding target and move toward a domestic goal of a 20% cut in emissions by 2010.By 2005 the government reduced the amount of industrial and commercial waste disposed of in landfill sites to 85% of 1998 levels and recycled or composted at least 25% of household waste, increasing to 33% by 2015.
No.9 South Korea South Korea announced its first greenhouse gas reduction target in November 2009, pledging to cut emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases by 4% below 2005 levels by 2020.South Korea is one of the world’s largest greenhouse gas emitters. In 2005, the country released 590 million tons of the greenhouse gases blamed for dangerously warming the globe.  If no action is taken to cut emissions, South Korea is expected to produce 813 million tons of greenhouse gases in 2020.
No 10. Mexico
The environmental issues that plague Mexico include scarcity of hazardous waste disposal facilities; rural to urban migration; natural fresh water resources scarce and polluted in north, inaccessible and poor quality in center and extreme southeast. The nation also has raw sewage and industrial effluents polluting rivers in urban areas; deforestation; widespread erosion; desertification; deteriorating agricultural lands; serious air and water pollution in the national capital and urban centers along US-Mexico border.


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/25/2010 8:00:25 PM >

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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 8:02:46 PM   
Edwynn


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If we're going more for the scientific than the political, a good place to start would be to avoid claiming that Venus is hotter than Earth because it's closer to the sun and not because of greenhouse effect. It's both but the greenhouse effect swamps the proximity effect. Mercury is about -360' F at night, about +780' F in the day, total swing of 1,100-1,200' per day. Venus, though being almost twice as far from the sun as Mercury, stays around +840' F to +900'F all the time, due to the greenhouse atmosphere.


No one is saying that's where earth is headed, just trying to keep things loosely confined to reality here.


Is it a good idea to waste tax money on carbon credits? No.

Is any tax money actually being used for carbon credits? No.

Is it a good idea to subsidize oil producers with myriad and numerous tax credits, absurd depreciation allowances, investment write-offs, etc.? No
Take away the billions in giveaways there and then the true cost would be reflected not just at the pumps but in most everything we buy, which would make us seek alternatives with much more seriousness. We don't need subsidies and incentives for alternative energy tech, just remove the freebies to oil companies and green tech makes economic sense right away. R&D budgets would increase overnight.

Remove the tax incentives to pollute by way of tax breaks to oil companies and also by removing subsidies to the agro-chem industries and pollution would be reduced far more and far quicker than with these penny-ante carbon credit schemes.




You'd be amazed at how much it would reduce the budget deficit as a nice side benefit.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/25/2010 8:13:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 11:41:51 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Ed, I guess we agree on the political, it's just a play for mo money. That is not in dispute even though your point is valid.

The point [I think] I tried to make is that change is a natural thing. It may well be that this period of the Earth's life cycle is going to be warmer. This may be by celestial means, something which we cannot control. If that is the case the proper course of action is to make ourselves ready. Find new ways to control the climate in our houses and buildings, to effectively store our food, to maintain some sort of existence with a bit less agony.

If the warming is caused by CO2, there is still not a hell of alot we can do about it, but we are part of the environment just like all the other species' on this planet. As much of a bunch of assholes we are, I'm pretty sure we are currently the very few that even give a thought to the survival of other species' while surviving. Well they are using O2 as well and producing CO2. And there's a hell of alot of them.

Well we are a species too, and we must assume that we came by this planet honestly. For now. When we get cold we burn things. This will be more prevalent towards the poles no doubt. People in Ecuador probably don't get the equivalent of a $400 gas bill in the cold months. Everything we do makes heat, and for the most part produces CO2 in the process. What do we do, give up on fire ? Og the cave Man will be so disappointed.

Everything is fire in a way. Ironically this is so totally ancient thinking. You drive a car, technically it is fueled by fire. Internal combustion engine, note the word conbustion. Heat your house with gas, same thing. Heat your house electrically and I bet something was burned somewhere to produce that electricity. It just wasn't in the backyard where we can see it. Fire is everything, in a sense the sun is a big fire. It produces heat. Even cooling your home or fridge, heat is produced to make the electricity which cannot destroy the heat, but it does move it out to another area. And of course more heat is generated in the process.

I think we may be getting to the point where we must consider the fact that the Earth is now so overpopulated that the BTUs emitted into the ecosystem should be considered. Really, indepenently from the CO2 issue. Take a look at a traffic jam. Miles of cars all idling. Now let's say a radiator hose breaks. What happens ? The driver either shuts the car off soon or it burns up. The engine gets so hot that it actually wrecks the METAL parts. That is quite a bit of heat, and if it is not "radiated" by the "radiator" the thing self destructs. How much heat energy do you suppose that is ? 

In a traffic jam it can back up four lanes for miles. So let's say we got four cars abeast, and they average twenty feet long. In one mile that is 1,056 cars. Each of them has a cooling system and must radiate enough heat, so not to overheat. How many BTUs per car ? I don't know. But how many highways are there, in how many cities, states, countries ? Wanna talk about a carbon fiootprint ? That's a herd of mammoth at least.

But how much does that affect the equilibrium which allows us to survive ? That is the point. Not how many dollars can be made by whom. They can't figure this shit out so it is up to us. Our life depend on it. (yes that last sentence is correctly worded)

T

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RE: Earth warming ? - 12/25/2010 11:53:42 PM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		shouldnt this be the politics section?

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/26/2010 12:07:34 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I would say not GT, because I was the one to put it here. I did not want to go into the political end of the issue, just the pure truth about how much we are contributing to the problem, that is if the problem exists. But being CM ..........

T

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Earth warming ? - 12/26/2010 11:11:35 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

shouldnt this be the politics section?


No.

We heard all those worn out arguments dozens of times.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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