On motivations..........and intent.

On motivations..........and intent. (Full Version)

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Reasonable -> On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 1:18:40 PM)
I think that many of us have heard the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". As a preface here,and for clarity-I am about to open a dialogue concerning ethical constructs. This is not intended as a flamefest-or venue to vent your spite over your past baggage. Please try to maintain your objectivity, and not take things said as personal slights-unless you are specifically named by another poster.(which is a TOS violation, in any case) That having been said-onward. 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 I feel that many times, people make decisions based on purely artificial mind constructs. Very often,this is a coping mechanism that comes from past traumas-it is an instinctive attempt to armor oneself against further harm. Sensation players,who set limits, that were broken by someone who got carried away-or were unstable to begin with. Submissives who were taken advantage of by Dominants who had hidden and manipulative agendas. And Dominants,the same (though we are often loathe to say so-we armor our pride,our faces,the masks we wear.......) I often hear about open comunication-honor,clarity......but are we not also driven by desire, and the compulsion of the constructs that make up our internal drives? It can be very confusing,we often do not even realize what lurks so deep inside of us........or we fear to see. The darker side of the human phsyche is a natrual thing-only civilization seeks to control and sublimate it. It is the coping mechanism of any collective entity that desires harmony,and stability. So where do we find expression,validation for this? Here,in places, and communities like this. For the freedom of the irrational,the primal,the emotive. The deep places that the life force springs from. So we have on the one hand- desire, by itself..........facing the ethical that is devised to control it. War. 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 So,onto the main question,now that the mill has gist to grind. What are YOUR methods for coping with this conflict? Or better yet-have you arrived at a solution that makes conflict of this sort moot?

stardancer00 -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 3:23:30 PM)
Thank you for this thought provoking topic. "The world of imagination and the illusion of fear and hope are great obstacles to the pilgrim on the Path." It is important to separate what are needs from wants/desires, and to act with care, even when one is delving into the irrational. Because we are human, this is an ideal rather than an actuality that can occur one hundred percent of the time, but those errors are our teachers. In this lifestyle, one really is called upon to create a personal set of ethics that will often include acts not sanctioned in the larger agreed upon reality we call "society." My personal construct includes a strong spiritual connection/base, as well as what i have come to call my "slave compass," which, when followed, has made that conflict between ethics/desire a moot one. i also feel that for slave, it is important to continually place the mirror before one's self, to see the shame, the dirt, the beauty, the desire, the darkness, the light, and not to be afraid to know what one is, to be fully unveiled in one's own self in order that one comes to understand how to find a wholeness in self, expression and fulfillment, ideally of course, with another, in that balance that creates the foundation for growth and continued development.

Reasonable -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 3:34:41 PM)
Thank you stardancer,and welcome to the boards. I feel that like yourself-we often end up compartmentalizing our ethics for different segments of our lives. And that those we have to respect society at large often vary radically from those we practice to express our personal freedoms in relationships. For instance, what a slave partner and myself see as proper-we would never dream of imposing on another. So much so in many cases,that we have to "fly under the radar" with our philosophies and mindset. The interesting part about all of this is the intimacy it creates-for those involved have created a private universe,a sanctuary for themselves. This applies to bdsm practicioners,but I feel,also moreso to those who practice varying degrees and intsnsity of M/s D/s. Which in no way implies that I see one as superior or inferior to any other-merely different. But I also consider how much of the bond of affection and devotion each feels for the other to come from the very fact of the feeling of completeness that the freedom provided allows. And from the softest of romance dynamics,to the harshest of M/s relationships-this bond always exists-in some form.

Wulfchyld -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 3:45:21 PM)
quote: I often hear about open comunication-honor,clarity......but are we not also driven by desire, and the compulsion of the constructs that make up our internal drives? It can be very confusing,we often do not even realize what lurks so deep inside of us........or we fear to see. Communication, Honor, and Clarity are my driven desires. Communication: The ability to speak and be truly heard. Not just someone waiting for his or her turn to speak. I extend that courtesy and expect it reciprocated. Thoughts, emotions, hopes and fears are all dialogue that I wish to be privy to. Honor: Giant huge list so I will specify a few. Honesty, trust, loyalty, fealty, obedience. Clarity: what I hope to obtain through the above. Respectively Loki

meatcleaver -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 4:00:55 PM)
I've never really believed in all the codes and veneers that are bandied about in the BDSM life style. They were introduced to me early on but I soon realised they were meaningless. BDSM to me is taking the animal out for exercise with a muzzle on, without the passion BDSM to me is nothing. I can't say I have any special method of controling the 'savage beast' so to speak, I'm pretty easy going and very hard to provoke but the one thing that does provoke me and where I can lose the plot, is the feeling I've been taken for a ride and treated like an idiot. That has happened once and it was pretty irrelevent whether there was BDSM context or not. As for ethics, when I hear it spouted in the context of BDSM I tend to yawn, what morals and codes I have I had before I ever heard of BDSM. I don't hit women in anger and never have but beyond the physical, women are my equal so all is fair game from there. That being said, there is only one person that has made me reflect on boundaries, I've reflected and considered I have yet to reach them.

Reasonable -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 4:06:04 PM)
Pc codes are more for validation of the scene's general right to exist than anything else,meatcleaver. But I'm sure I'm preeching to the choir on this one. From what little I know of you,we seem to be on similar levels of pragmatism and cynicism.(which can be good or bad,who really gives a rat's ass) In the long run,I think we thumb our noses at the pc concepts,and just find a match for boundaries we feel comfortable within.

slavejali -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 4:16:12 PM)
I think we have two choices as to how we are going to experience life. 1. We can go along unconsciously, a product of our pasts..every decision, thought and feeling we have being determined by that..and pretty much lead a superficial existance never ever really knowing ourselves and so never really capable of having a relationship with anyone else. 2. We can live consciously by getting to know ourselves by our reactions to external stimuli, modifying our behaviour by realising how bound we are in certain areas and at the same time realising ourselves as more than the experiences we have, or the identifications we associate with because of that....and putting ourselves in a position to really be capable of participating in a relationship. Simple example of this playing out for me. I know without a doubt I have an aversion to the smell of alcohol, especially beer. I know this is a product of my past. When Master has a beer, I have all kinds of feelings and thoughts around it which aren't very good. I think about alcoholism and how destructive it is, I think about the effects of alcohol on people and the people around them...I think about my dad. Then I take a deep breath and bring my thoughts to right here and now...Master is having a beer after work, he is relaxing, He is a good man, he doesnt waste money on getting drunk, he doesnt abuse me, he doesnt make my life insane because of him drinking. If however the scenario was different, say 1. His drinking was an addiction.(Weakness of personality) 2. He was wasting money on alcohol. 3. His behaviour changed due to drinking(whether thats having to lie, be sneaky, be abusive, be irresponsible, basically dragging me into an alcoholic world by association). That would be harder for me to process cuz basically what would be happening is all my fears based on the past would actually be found again in the present, my fears would have some basis of reality in the present. I would express my concerns however fearful I was. I wouldnt get drawn into the web of deception around making it ok and basically would find my peace that way. So, in both those scenarios, they are external stimuli and both could be used to overcome my dark place that has been created by my past. I think taking personal responsibility for all the feelings we have, can free us from the dark places inside us. It's really not about the other person..but how we react and process that matters the most. Being trapped in my past isnt my idea of the form of slavery I want to live grin I think sometimes with the extreme form of play I enjoy, part of it is the challenge, the push to overcome..and having a Master willing to push those boundaries, push me....also in other areas of his demands and expectations.....really makes him my Master and I his slave, the kinda slave I want to be...one that experiences the power of surrender, the gentle amazing strength of being submissive.

Reasonable -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (4/30/2006 4:19:53 PM)
Yes jali,our past conditioned reflexes have a great deal to do with how the subconcious moves us. Yet,we do have to opprtunity to reprogram and redirect them-in differing circumstances.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: On motivations..........and intent. (5/1/2006 5:56:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reasonable So,onto the main question,now that the mill has gist to grind. What are YOUR methods for coping with this conflict? Or better yet-have you arrived at a solution that makes conflict of this sort moot? It's not a conflict for me at all- I do what I feel is right based on my own set of guiding ideals and morals, not because a group told me. A lot of people have trouble with that- growing up and having to face the rules not being as clear as they were told they would be, or growing up and realizing they don't really fit into the rules and trying very hard to do so anyway (not realizing that NO ONE really fits into the rules and just about EVERYONE is trying to). You could say I'm an anarchist- I do things based on my own sense of right and wrong and good and bad, largely guided by pragmatism..

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