quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom


parents would hopefully teach their kids enough manners so as to not have them going up to others and"Neener neener...." stuff. It's rude and hurtful and shows poor manners, and the parents lack of instilling good manners.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

TFB five year olds have damn little impulse control. They think it, they say it. Maybe later on they will regret it when they see a classmate crying but by then the damage is done. They want to be seen as smarter than the others, as knowing a secret the others don't know, and out it comes. Actually viewed from that angle, it makes them just like adults. Lots of adults want to be know-it-alls, can't keep a secret if it kills them. This isn't about manners, it's about how people are.



Beyond that, by impressing upon them that Santa isn't real, please be aware that you will be causing them hardship. Because the kid who they go up to and say "neener, neener, my mommy says Santa isn't real and your mommy is a liar" is going to go home in tears, and won't be friends with your child after.

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Those first ten years are the most profoundly important years in a child's development. While it is a good thing for them to be in good spirits, optimistic and all that, why lie ?

Kids are impressionable at that age for a reason- they lack the critical thinking skills to question what they are told. i doubt if anyone can say anything to a child without indoctrinating them in some way. That goes for all adults- parents, teachers, authority figures, etc. There is no way to get around the fact of adults planting ideas into kids heads. Even kids plant ideas into kids heads. How do You propose to remove those types of influences, short of locking a child up for their first 10 years? Each time a person speaks they are "spinning" reality in one way or another. It percolates in a child's mind for a while, their reasoning skills grow, and then, in adolescence, they question and rebel. That's the way it's supposed to be.

You think lying to kids is wrong? Who gets to decide what's true, and what's a lie?

Furthermore, my parents lied to me about Santa, and yet i didn't go around with constant optimism and high spirits as a child. i think the situation is much more complicated than You're representing it to be.

Please note that I am in favor of a law, even an amendment to the Constitution that prohibits anyone under a certain age from being exposed to religion of any kind. More so than pornography. Not that they should see porn, but really when very young they wouldn't think anything of it usually. But religion is different. Porn does not strive to indoctrinate you, religion does.

See above. Children are indoctrinated every moment of their lives. An amendment won't change that.

Think I'm crazy, fine. Stop by to make sure if you want. But religion is poison. Holidays are poison. All of it poisons the mind. Fantasies should teach or open new vistas in the mind, not attempt to control, and support the "economy".

And You are free to expose any children You know to THAT idea, but please keep in mind that there are some who would consider Your ideas "poison".

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ORIGINAL: hausboy

I'd like to ask a question then, that builds on this thread.  It was actually asked to me the other day at work, and I didn't have an answer for it.

For those of you who believed in Santa Cluas...or have kids who believed he was real...
Did you or your kids experience any distress emotionally when you learned he wasn't?

I've heard some kids get really dismayed, others just shrug it off.  At what age?  My school was almost 100% Jewish, so we regarded Santa Claus as a fun holiday tradition, just like the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy.  I have no frame of reference on this.

quote:


"...you must tell the child the legends I told you -- as my mother told them to me and her mother to her.  You must tell the fairy tales of the old country.  You must tell of those not of the earth who live forever in the hearts of people -- fairies, elves, dwarfs, and such.... Oh, and you must not forget Kris Kringle.  The child must believe in him until she reaches the age of six."

"Mother, I know there are no ghosts or fairies.  I would be teaching the child foolish lies."

[Her mother] spoke sharply, "You do not know whether there are not ghosts on earth or angels in heaven."

"I know there is no Santa Claus."

"Yet you must teach the child that these things are so."

"Why?  When I, myself, do not believe?"

"Because," explained [her mother] simply, "the child must have a valuable thing which is called imagination.  The child must have a secret world in which live things that never were.  It is necessary that she believe.  She must start out by believing things not of this world.  Then when the world becomes too ugly for living in, the child can reach back and live in her imagination.  I, myself, even in this day and at my age, have great need of recalling the miraculous lives of the Saints and the great miracles that have come to pass on earth.  Only by having these things in my mind can I live beyond what I have to live for."

"The child will grow up and find out things for herself.  She will know that I lied.  She will be disappointed."

"That is what is called learning the truth.  It is a good thing to learn the truth one's self.  To first believe with all your heart, and then not to believe, is good too.  It fattens the emotions and makes them stretch.  When as a woman life and people disappoint her, she will have had practice in disappointment and it will not come so hard.  In teaching your child, do not forget that suffering is good too.  It makes a person rich in character...."

"What more must I teach the child?"

"The child must be made to believe in heaven.  A heaven not filled with flying angels with God on a throne,... but a heaven which means a wondrous place that people may dream of -- as of a place where desires come true."