RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse?

RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (Full Version)

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KnightofMists -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 8:55:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize Dominants are not therapists. I have read articles by dominants who believe they can provide 'healing' of past abuses just by virtue of their dominance. That is dangerous territory indeed. Counseling and therapy belong within the confines of professionals. I couldn't agree more... However... I would say the choice to move past one's abuse is only in one persons hands... and that is in the hands of the Victim. It is not uncommon for some victims to stay victims many years after the abuse has actually stopped. I do believe the OP was trying to make reference to this but over generalized the situation and made some over-generalized behavior links. Yes some victims come into the BDSM lifesytle and continue to spin the abuse. It is not uncommon for victims of abuse to turn themself into self-abusers. I think that is one the most damaging things an abuser can do to their victims! I am my girls Master not their therapist. I provide support and encouragement, but I am not there to FIX them. They are to FIX themselves. If I want my car fixed... I take it to a mechanic. If I want my house fixed, I get a carpenter. You want your mind and thoughts fixed.. get a therapists. Now having said that.. Not all Mechanics, Carpenters and Therapists are created equal. Some are better than others. Some are just more suited to the task at hand than another. The individual needing the help must not be blind to think the professional is all knowing and wise. Sometimes one should and does seek second, third opinions. But the difference between a Dominant giving such an opinion and that from a Professional. One likely has actual experience and training in counceling on these issues of abuse than the other. Yes, I would agree that a Dominant is likely to know their submissive more than any Therapist will know the submissive. However, this intimate knowledge is not a replacement to actual experience and training. I would add that Victims don't stick out as much as the OP impression seems to imply. Victims and self-abusers can go very unnoticed. There is actually mental conditions that don't actually become readily apparent except when an intimate relationship ensue between to people. Borderline Personality Disorders is a good example of this. There are flags to watch for... but to be honest... few individuals actaully know what flags to watch for with regards to these various conditions. Finally, it is a incredible thing when another person can lovingly support and encourage the healing of another from abuse of the past. My experience has shown me that when a person wishes to move beyond the abuse and heal themselves, that a Dominants support and encouragement can be significiant an important aspect to their growth. However, I also know from experience that a person that wants their Dominant to fix them and doesn't internal take responsibility for there own physical and mental health... well there is nothing the Dominant can do to change it.

Reasonable -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 9:05:02 AM)
This is so true. One of the things I have found to help somehwat,besides support-is to simply remind the person that they are still giving thier abuser power over them. And that if they can simply visualize themselves turning thier back on that person,and walking away....................never look back.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 9:06:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TakingYou1 ...Speaking for myself, I have a real yearning for a very passive sort...calm, gentle, at peace. The girls who have been abused are anything but that. I would be interested in knowing whether anyone else have made similar observations... Of all of the folks this slave has ever met that considered themselves to have been involved in abusive relationships or situations, this slave has observed NO COMMON DENOMINATOR other than they were ALL living, breathing human beings. perhaps the girls you have met that own an abused past are anything but calm and gentle or at peace...but this slave can think of quite a few examples where the predator/abuser chose them precisely because they were and still are calm, gentle, passive, peaceful sorts~some have even transcended the pain and hurt of their pasts, some are still working on it. perhaps you shouldn't paint "the girls who have been abused" with some sort of negative brush, you certainly haven't met ALL of them. girls seeking a Dom to provide a similar scenario in order to relive it? --for some, involving another isn't really necessary. some folks relive it in their nightmares, it creeps into their daily thoughts, some are triggered into a flight or fight response by one seemingly innocuous but incredibly similar smell, taste, sound or phrase. as far as therapy is concerned....there are MANY, MANY therapeutic ways to come to peace with yourself and live in the present besides consulting with and paying accredited "professionals".

mistoferin -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 9:10:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: catize Dominants are not therapists. I have read articles by dominants who believe they can provide 'healing' of past abuses just by virtue of their dominance. That is dangerous territory indeed. Counseling and therapy belong within the confines of professionals. I couldn't agree more... However... I would say the choice to move past one's abuse is only in one persons hands... and that is in the hands of the Victim. It is not uncommon for some victims to stay victims many years after the abuse has actually stopped. I do believe the OP was trying to make reference to this but over generalized the situation and made some over-generalized behavior links. Yes some victims come into the BDSM lifesytle and continue to spin the abuse. It is not uncommon for victims of abuse to turn themself into self-abusers. I think that is one the most damaging things an abuser can do to their victims! I am my girls Master not their therapist. I provide support and encouragement, but I am not there to FIX them. They are to FIX themselves. If I want my car fixed... I take it to a mechanic. If I want my house fixed, I get a carpenter. You want your mind and thoughts fixed.. get a therapists. Now having said that.. Not all Mechanics, Carpenters and Therapists are created equal. Some are better than others. Some are just more suited to the task at hand than another. The individual needing the help must not be blind to think the professional is all knowing and wise. Sometimes one should and does seek second, third opinions. But the difference between a Dominant giving such an opinion and that from a Professional. One likely has actual experience and training in counceling on these issues of abuse than the other. Yes, I would agree that a Dominant is likely to know their submissive more than any Therapist will know the submissive. However, this intimate knowledge is not a replacement to actual experience and training. I would add that Victims don't stick out as much as the OP impression seems to imply. Victims and self-abusers can go very unnoticed. There is actually mental conditions that don't actually become readily apparent except when an intimate relationship ensue between to people. Borderline Personality Disorders is a good example of this. There are flags to watch for... but to be honest... few individuals actaully know what flags to watch for with regards to these various conditions. Finally, it is a incredible thing when another person can lovingly support and encourage the healing of another from abuse of the past. My experience has shown me that when a person wishes to move beyond the abuse and heal themselves, that a Dominants support and encouragement can be significiant an important aspect to their growth. However, I also know from experience that a person that wants their Dominant to fix them and doesn't internal take responsibility for there own physical and mental health... well there is nothing the Dominant can do to change it. Amen, Amen, Amen!!! The only one who can make the transition from victim to survivor....is the victim. Too often I see well meaning Dominants trying to "help" their submissives overcome past abuse when all they are really serving to do is keep them in that "victim" mentality. Like you said...if your car is broken, see a mechanic...ruptured appendix, go to a doctor....if it's your mind, spirit and soul that's been injured, see a therapist.

mistoferin -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 9:18:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth as far as therapy is concerned....there are MANY, MANY therapeutic ways to come to peace with yourself and live in the present besides consulting with and paying accredited "professionals". Just a note to add. I agree....there are MANY ways...but I can not discount professional therapy. In choosing one though, I find that the best therapists who are qualified in issues of abuse are those that have been through it themselves and they can usually be found at your local safehouse or shelter. And....they are usually free or will accept payment based upon the individuals financial situation. There is also a huge difference between a therapist or counselor who will work with you while you sort through the issues and a psychiatrist who will take a physician's approach and start writing prescriptions. I am not recommending the latter.

babysburnin -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 11:39:22 AM)
I wasn't abused as a child and my parents didn't believe in spanking...guilt - much more effective and longer-lasting! I like "pain" because it is delivered with care by my Dom, and I like intensity. I worry about those who have been abused and find this lifestyle as a "healer".

heartfeltsub -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 11:50:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reasonable You have to watch the heavy duty humiliation sluts carefully. In my past experience, they often have the very ulterior motive you express,and can easily turn on you. Fun is fun,but when they finally transform YOU into the past abuser in thier minds-and it often happens-things can become very ugly indeed. Though this entire thread caught my attention, this particular post in the thread was something that i felt i needed to comment on. i happen to be into some extremes when it comes to humiliation, i also happen to have lived through some abuse in my childhood, and while i have met some subs who are into major humiliation play and are doing that form of BDSM play because they really do feel worthless and that they are nothing more than pieces of s**t, that is not always the case. Prior to getting into this lifestyle, i spent quite a few years dealing with the junk from my past, because i firmly believe that one needs to be emotionally healthy and mostly whole if one is going to play around with humiliation play. A great deal has already been said about generalization, i just wanted to personally address this particular generalization. heartfelt

MyCaptainsPet -> RE: Is Submission "Real" When It Relives Past Abuse? (5/1/2006 1:23:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TakingYou1 It has come to be my impression that there are many girls here seeking a dominant man to relive abuse they have suffered in their past. I am not saying that that is true of all. Nor do I believe that they are doing this on a conscious level. It strikes me that many of these girls are in fact angry...justifiably so. Speaking for myself, I have a real yearning for a very passive sort...calm, gentle, at peace. The girls who have been abused are anything but that. I would be interested in knowing whether anyone else have made similar observations. i for one have been abused in the past and i tend to be very passive and quiet...

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