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[Poll]

What additional laws should local govts make regarding gun control?


None- they should stay out of it; the federal laws are enough
  72% (13)
Other- please specify
  27% (5)


Total Votes : 18
(last vote on : 12/28/2011 7:05:02 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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What additional laws should local govts make regarding ... - 12/31/2010 3:59:35 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		FIRST OF ALL, TO CLARIFY THINGS:

The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1791, as part of the "Bill of Rights". It read:

"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The U.S. Supreme Court has subsequently held that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for private use within the home in the District of Colombia (District of Colombia v. Heller, 2008) and in the 50 states (McDonald v. Chicago, 2010).

Beyond that fundamental right to use/possession in the home (for those qualified to own a gun), the level of gun control in the U.S. is subject to federal, state, and city restrictions.

Federal law requires a clear background check to purchase a gun. This background check is conducted through the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICBCS), and requires no waiting period. Disqualifying factors include:

* dishonorable discharge from the Armed Forces
* a history of drug abuse
* serious mental illness (only 22 states provide this information, due to privacy laws)
* illegal or unlawful aliens
* anyone who has renounced their U.S. citizenship
* convicted felons
* persons convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence
* wanted persons

Nevertheless, the database is only as effective as it is accurate. States' failure to report incidence have led many purchasers to slip through the cracks who would otherwise have been prohibited from buying a gun.

In 1986 Congress banned the sale of fully automatic weapons (except to military and law enforcement).

In 1994 Congress banned the sale of certain semi-automatic weapons. The semiautomatic ban expired in 2004, and has not been renewed. It is currently legal to purchase any semiautomatic weapon in the U.S., provided the purchaser has passed the FBI's background test.

IN SUMMARY:
The U.S. Constitution provides most citizens the right to own handguns and semiautomatic weapons. The state and local governments are given the power to decide what "reasonable restrictions" can be made to control the sale and possession of guns. In your opinion, what additional restrictions on gun possession should state/city governments require?

In answering, please keep in mind that cities and states do NOT have the power to overturn the 2nd Amendment; namely, the right of qualified individuals to possess non-automatic and semiautomatic weapons in their own homes. What "reasonable restrictions" should city/state governments make regarding gun possession/use outside the home?

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 12/31/2010 4:39:43 AM >
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 12/31/2010 4:38:19 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		i think that gun possession in public should be restricted to purchasing a gun, gun shows, hunting, target shooting, or traveling between the home and one of those.

pam

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:00:17 PM   
kchightower


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/28/2010
Status: offline 		This is one instance where I feel Federal government needs to make all rules and all laws, and any state and local ordniances need to be nullified. There has become such a vast patchwork of laws that it is too easy for a person to become an accidental criminal. I remember in Illinois when the Grand Felon George Ryan threw a hissy fit when some key lawmakers were absent from a vote he was pushing to make it a felony to illegally transport a handgun. This could have been something as simple as both the weapon and the ammunition being stored in the glove box while being transported. One problem is standards for transporting a firearm are different in Chicago than they are in Springfield. A person could be perfectly legal at one moment cross a county line and suddenly they're a felon.

(in reply to gungadin09)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:07:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You are incorrect when you state that local municipalities cannot restrict non automatic gun ownership.

In New York City possession of a handgun without a permit is an automatic one year jail term.

In many places, any history of mental instability can prevent you from ever getting a permit or a hunting license.

Moreover this belongs in Politics, not PORS. As I'm certain you are well aware of. So why did you deliberately not post it there?


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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:11:19 PM   
omkfY


Posts: 104
Joined: 7/7/2009
From: State of Jefferson
Status: offline 		An unjust law is no law of mine

(in reply to kchightower)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:25:04 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

Give me all the guns. I'll keep them safe.

C'on... you can trust me.


_____________________________

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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:27:02 PM   
CerVeza


Posts: 156
Joined: 10/13/2010
Status: offline 		Give your guns to o'bama dear leader. He will take care of you. He will pay your car mortgage and house thingie too.

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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:28:19 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		All that needs to be done is enforce the laws now on the books.

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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:29:11 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CerVeza

Give your guns to o'bama dear leader. He will take care of you. He will pay your car mortgage and house thingie too.

Were you dropped on your head a lot as a child or perhaps deprived of oxygen at some point during childbirth?

~stef


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(in reply to CerVeza)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:36:26 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Moreover this belongs in Politics, not PORS. As I'm certain you are well aware of. So why did you deliberately not post it there?


Perhaps she posted it here because it's a poll?

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it's never enough to keep up.

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(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:37:53 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Moreover this belongs in Politics, not PORS. As I'm certain you are well aware of. So why did you deliberately not post it there?


Perhaps she posted it here because it's a poll?


*dun dun dah!*

Don't the mods still move all polls over here? I know they used to.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 6:43:13 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Moreover this belongs in Politics, not PORS. As I'm certain you are well aware of. So why did you deliberately not post it there?


Perhaps she posted it here because it's a poll?


*dun dun dah!*

Don't the mods still move all polls over here? I know they used to.



That's exactly what I was thinking. All the polls, no matter the subject, tend to get dumped into the peanut gallery, since we have "Polls" in our section name.

_____________________________

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Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 7:31:35 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You are incorrect when you state that local municipalities cannot restrict non automatic gun ownership.

No, i stated that they cannot restrict possession inside the home.

In New York City possession of a handgun without a permit is an automatic one year jail term.

Restricting possession (outside the home) to those with permits is an example of the "reasonable restrictions" that cities do require.

In many places, any history of mental instability can prevent you from ever getting a permit or a hunting license.

That is another example of a restriction enacted at the local level. Cities may refuse to issue permits or hunting licenses, because these pertain to gun use outside the home. Furthermore, anyone with serious mental instabilities probably doesn't qualify to (legally) own a gun, and so the question of "restricting" their rights is a moot point. They don't have the right in the first place. According to the federal government, only qualified individuals have the right to own guns, and qualification is determined by the FBI's background check.

Moreover this belongs in Politics, not PORS. As I'm certain you are well aware of. So why did you deliberately not post it there?

Because it is a poll


pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 1/3/2011 7:49:00 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 8:05:19 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Also:

Please note that it is NOT the subject of this thread whether you like guns, whether you like the U.K., whether you like the U.S., whether you like Obama, whether you think unjust laws ought to be followed, whether it is safer to live here or somewhere else...

The fact is that the 2nd Amendment *absolutely* promises very little. It merely grants the right for qualified individuals to possess and use guns (for the purpose of self defense) in their own homes.

The open ended nature of the 2nd Amendment empowers state and local governments to make their own laws to restrict, or NOT to restict, gun possession and use outside the home.

This thread is merely asking what additional laws, if any, you think the local governments ought to make.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 1/3/2011 8:06:05 PM >

(in reply to gungadin09)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 8:21:42 PM   
omkfY


Posts: 104
Joined: 7/7/2009
From: State of Jefferson
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Also:

Please note that it is NOT the subject of this thread whether you like guns, whether you like the U.K., whether you like the U.S., whether you like Obama, whether you think unjust laws ought to be followed, whether it is safer to live here or somewhere else...

The fact is that the 2nd Amendment *absolutely* promises very little. It merely grants the right for qualified individuals to possess and use guns (for the purpose of self defense) in their own homes.

The open ended nature of the 2nd Amendment empowers state and local governments to make their own laws to restrict, or NOT to restict, gun possession and use outside the home.

This thread is merely asking what additional laws, if any, you think the local governments ought to make.

pam



I disagree with just about everything you said. Until the 2nd amendment is repealed, I have a right to take up arms to protect my rights -- inside, outside, no matter the state or jurisdiction. Just because a government makes a law, does not make it legal (eg bans on interracial marriage). So my not abiding unjust laws is related to the subject of this thread: "in what ways can a tyrannical majority force their will upon a minority"

(in reply to gungadin09)
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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 9:07:24 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: omkfY

I disagree with just about everything you said. Until the 2nd amendment is repealed, I have a right to take up arms to protect my rights -- inside, outside, no matter the state or jurisdiction. Just because a government makes a law, does not make it legal (eg bans on interracial marriage). So my not abiding unjust laws is related to the subject of this thread: "in what ways can a tyrannical majority force their will upon a minority"

Indeed. One of the reasons the right to bare arms is in there is because we have a duty to overthrow the government should it become oppressive.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to omkfY)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 9:13:55 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: omkfY

I disagree with just about everything you said. Until the 2nd amendment is repealed, I have a right to take up arms to protect my rights -- inside, outside, no matter the state or jurisdiction. Just because a government makes a law, does not make it legal (eg bans on interracial marriage). So my not abiding unjust laws is related to the subject of this thread: "in what ways can a tyrannical majority force their will upon a minority"

Indeed. One of the reasons the right to bare arms is in there is because we have a duty to overthrow the government should it become oppressive.



YAY!


Can I have a yellow crane now?

_____________________________

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RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 9:30:53 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Moreover this belongs in Politics, not PORS. As I'm certain you are well aware of. So why did you deliberately not post it there?



There's soo many gun threads in all the other forums right now any way...why the fuck not

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 10:56:11 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: omkfY


quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Also:

Please note that it is NOT the subject of this thread whether you like guns, whether you like the U.K., whether you like the U.S., whether you like Obama, whether you think unjust laws ought to be followed, whether it is safer to live here or somewhere else...

The fact is that the 2nd Amendment *absolutely* promises very little. It merely grants the right for qualified individuals to possess and use guns (for the purpose of self defense) in their own homes.

The open ended nature of the 2nd Amendment empowers state and local governments to make their own laws to restrict, or NOT to restict, gun possession and use outside the home.

This thread is merely asking what additional laws, if any, you think the local governments ought to make.

pam



I disagree with just about everything you said.

But i didn't say anything, i merely asked a question. The question was, what laws, if any, do you think the local governments ought to make regarding the possession of guns in public? If you think that they should make no law, then that is your answer to the question. What opinion of mine are you disagreeing with? The above quote is simply me encouraging posters to stay on topic. It does not contain a single opinion. How is it possible to "disagree"? If you are disagreeing with my answer to the OP, in post #1, then you quoted the wrong text.

Until the 2nd amendment is repealed, I have a right to take up arms to protect my rights -- inside, outside, no matter the state or jurisdiction.

Can you explain where you think i contradicted that? On the contrary, and again, i merely asked for your opinion about it.

Just because a government makes a law, does not make it legal (eg bans on interracial marriage).

No, by definition, the fact that the legislation makes a law DOES make it legal, unless the Supreme Court finds that the law is unconstitutional, and overturns it.

So my not abiding unjust laws is related to the subject of this thread: "in what ways can a tyrannical majority force their will upon a minority"

No, again, the subject of this thread is "What laws, if any, do you think local governments ought to make regarding the possession of guns in public?


Which laws do you think are unjust?

How would you change them?

i have made no mention of any law besides the 2nd Amendment, which, i take it, you do NOT think is unjust.

pam




< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 1/3/2011 11:01:36 PM >

(in reply to omkfY)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: What additional laws should local govts make regard... - 1/3/2011 11:02:51 PM   
omkfY


Posts: 104
Joined: 7/7/2009
From: State of Jefferson
Status: offline 		Under the guise of "fact" you did state opinions, specifically:

* that you believe the 2nd amendment is limited to home

* that you believe the 2nd amendment is subject to interpretation

* that you believe local jurisdictions have the ability to restrict use & ownership

* that with those opinions suggested as fact, the only possible choices are 1) no new laws or 2) additional laws (missing was #3 -- less laws)


quote:

No, by definition, the fact that the legislation makes a law DOES make it legal, unless the Supreme Court finds that the law is unconstitutional, and overturns it.


Unconstitutional laws are not legal period

< Message edited by omkfY -- 1/3/2011 11:10:37 PM >

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 20
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