RE: Scalia at it again. (Full Version)

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:23:45 PM)

From a Cornell law prof:

Scalia's point is the fairly standard originalist view that the 14th Amendment does not broadly apply to prohibit all forms of discrimination on the basis of sex. Either sex. It does not protect men against discrimination on the basis of sex, either. The Supreme Court decision in Reed v. Reed, 404 U.S. 71 (1971) is read by some as offering broad protection on the basis of sex, but that is an overreading of a fairly limited opinion in which the Court found no rational basis for a state law giving preference to males in the appointment of estate administrators. Other cases after Reed have applied a more strict scrutiny approach. I assume Scalia disagrees with the Reed decision, not because he doesn't like the result, but because of the approach; this difference in approach does not make Scalia wrong, or hostile to women as the HuffPo headline suggested.

Scalia's view is neither novel nor new. That the Constitution does not address discrimination on the basis of sex as such was evidenced by the ultimately failed attempt to amend the Constitution to add an Equal Rights Amendment which would have added this provision: "Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."

Scalia, in the interview in question, also made clear that Congress is free to pass anti-discrimination laws, and Congress has. This is a distinction between constitutional and political protections:

"You do not need the Constitution to reflect the wishes of the current society. Certainly the Constitution does not require discrimination on the basis of sex. The only issue is whether it prohibits it. It doesn't. Nobody ever thought that that's what it meant. Nobody ever voted for that. If the current society wants to outlaw discrimination by sex, hey we have things called legislatures, and they enact things called laws. You don't need a constitution to keep things up-to-date. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box. You don't like the death penalty anymore, that's fine. You want a right to abortion? There's nothing in the Constitution about that. But that doesn't mean you cannot prohibit it. Persuade your fellow citizens it's a good idea and pass a law. That's what democracy is all about. It's not about nine superannuated judges who have been there too long, imposing these demands on society."
This distinction between constitutional and political rights typically is ignored by the liberal media and advocacy groups. So if one takes the position that there is no constitutional requirement for something (the issue du jour is gay marriage), one immediately is labeled as being "anti-_____" or "____phobic."

This is the line of attack used against Robert Bork by Ted Kennedy, and used regularly against any jurist or politician who, unlike Ezra Klein, does not view the Constitution as one of those endlessly malleable political documents meant only to mean whatever we want it to mean now.





mnottertail -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:24:45 PM)

your myriad inabilities outshine us all, wilb. 




tazzygirl -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:29:03 PM)

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/more-dumbed-down-talk-about.html

You should always cite your sources




InvisibleBlack -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:30:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
AFAIK he was silent on race, not that he agreed it provides protection based on race.


I'm not about to renew my subscription to LexisNexis but I'm fairly certain that in his dissent to the Supreme Court's ruling in GRUTTER v. BOLLINGER and in a number of other cases involving affirmative action, Justice Scalia has repeatedly found that the 14th Amendment does prohibit discrimination based on race.




InvisibleBlack -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:37:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

At least that, and in other issues there was a kansas-nebraska act in force already---several times he trampled states rights, and was accounted a hero.  One reason they made a posse comitatus act, I should think.  


I think the Posse Comitatus Act was a result of abuses of Federal troops during the Reconstruction so Lincoln would have been dead by then, but we're more or less on the same page and it's not fair to get too far afield since this is a thread about Justice Scalia.




mnottertail -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:49:19 PM)

Well, they are both conservatives and generally headed the same way, and if Lincoln would have made it, and had his way, you wouldn't have been able to tutor wilbur the ignorant on the laffer curve until after you got done mowing my lawn, and we both know that too.

The 14th being one of the reconstruction amendments dealing with like issues, as was the pc act. Note that the 14th starts out with:

"All persons"   (not men, not women, not varigated hostas, not anteaters and so on....)

Now, I did not get a law degree, but I went to a pretty fuckin good highschool, graduating near as I could get to the bottom of my class, and I think I got some very non-unique idea of what the word, 'all' means.    

But I think we are in general agreement in these matters, IB.  We just have different tempraments and styles that lead us to different rhetorics.

BTW, where the fuck you been?  I am glad you are posting again as of late.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 12:49:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
AFAIK he was silent on race, not that he agreed it provides protection based on race.


I'm not about to renew my subscription to LexisNexis but I'm fairly certain that in his dissent to the Supreme Court's ruling inĀ GRUTTER v. BOLLINGER and in a number of other cases involving affirmative action, Justice Scalia has repeatedly found that the 14th Amendment does prohibit discrimination based on race.


In his dissenting opinion in Grutter he only affirms that the government cannot discrminate on the basis of race.




mnottertail -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 1:02:06 PM)

and this distinction without a difference is based on what caselaw and precedent if not the fourteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenth?




joether -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 1:09:14 PM)

I see Scalia is now on the pill, Retardation. Since one can discriminate on the basis of sex (according to Scalia's 'masterful' understanding), then couldn't the same be said for the following: religion, race, creed? According to Scalia, I guess we now have an arguement to block all the religious nutcakes in the Tea Party from public office....





willbeurdaddy -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 1:11:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I see Scalia is now on the pill, Retardation. Since one can discriminate on the basis of sex (according to Scalia's 'masterful' understanding), then couldn't the same be said for the following: religion, race, creed? According to Scalia, I guess we now have an arguement to block all the religious nutcakes in the Tea Party from public office....




Bad guess. There is a difference between government discrimination and discrimination by an indivdual.




mnottertail -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 1:14:04 PM)

so, you by dint of your illogic are only arguing that he is wrong on both counts of the law then, governmental and individual.




AnimusRex -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 7:51:19 PM)

What I think is fascinating is the unspoken subtext here-

If we all believed that discrimination by gender was a moral evil and should be done away with, then this whole debate would be an exercise in pendantry and nit-picking- (hey look, women are not covered- how odd!).

What I think is interesting is how the Rightwingers pounced on this, and are stridently arguing that its legal to dscirmintate against women-

Not that they WOULD, they assure us, but by golly, it IS at least THEORETICALLY legal, to do so.

Combine this with Haley Barbour waxing nostalgic for the days before civil rights, and the Tea Party claiming that only property owners should be allowed to vote...


Why, we would NEVER think of establishing a society where white male property owners are a priviledged class....but we COULD!




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/4/2011 8:24:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
If we all believed that discrimination by gender was a moral evil....

What I think is interesting is how the Rightwingers pounced on this, and are stridently arguing that its legal to dscirmintate against women-




Nobody said it is legal. There is a difference between what the Constitution governs and what State law governs. It is not unconstituional.

And of course there is no such thing as "moral evil", so the rest of that is nonsense.




mnottertail -> RE: Scalia at it again. (1/5/2011 7:37:01 AM)

funny that theres a latin name for that mind fantasy, leading us to believe that it aint just Rex who is right and you who are wrong.

malum in se, and malum prohibitum....

maybe you should read up on that, it is sometimes used in legal circles to great effect, not so much in insurance peddling circles.




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