Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (Full Version)

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CreativeDominant -> Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 7:56:59 AM)

This stems from the thread on the board about orgasm control/denial of a female submissive by her male dominant.

During the course of that thread, there were varied viewpoints about the effectiveness and the results of such control...these views ranged from turning the woman off to turning the woman on immensely.  Some see either control(for an unstated but generally defined as lasting for a relatively short period) or denial (generally seen to be an ongoing process) as dangerous in that it may short-circuit the woman's interest whereas others see it as another form of fun and exciting though frustrating play. 

As an aside and so that people know my own viewpoint...I've always seen denial as one side of the coin...the other side being allowance.  These two subsets make up orgasm control.  I've never seen it stated that denial specifically means a long period of time.  I've never seen it stated that control only means denial for a short period of time.  Hence, my use of the terms of denial and allowance (permission) as subsets of control.

I am curious though...above I noted that some female submissives of the danger of turning a woman off if she is not allowed to cum for a long period of time.  I know that the following questions are going to possibly cause some flak but I've had a bunch of that in the last couple of weeks anyway so what's a little more?

Question 1.  Do you think the number of female submissives that would be turned off by orgasm denial for either short or long periods is higher than the number of male submissives?

Question 2:  If so, why?  Are the submissive men operating on a different mindset? 

Question 3:  If so, what is the mindset that allows these submissive men to endure this longer than their female counterpart without being turned off?  Especially in light of the fact that men...supposedly...are driven more by their libido than women are. 

Question 4:  In light of the supposedly higher sex drive, do dominant women take that into consideration when they apply orgasm denial for long periods to their submissive men?




mbes -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 9:25:43 AM)

1: Short term, no. Long term, yes.
2: I think it's more biological/hormonal than psychological. I don't have much to base that on, just conjecture from my own experiences and listening to people talk.
3 n/a and 4, no idea.



AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 9:49:27 AM)

Greetings Sir,

Actually it isn't about the mindset, but that men and women respond different physiologically. For men the less they have it the more they want it, while for women, the more they have it the more they want it.
http://site.themarriagebed.com/how-frequency-effects-women

Regards,
anna



Reform -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 10:12:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Question 1.  Do you think the number of female submissives that would be turned off by orgasm denial for either short or long periods is higher than the number of male submissives?

Question 2:  If so, why?  Are the submissive men operating on a different mindset? 

Question 3:  If so, what is the mindset that allows these submissive men to endure this longer than their female counterpart without being turned off?  Especially in light of the fact that men...supposedly...are driven more by their libido than women are. 

Question 4:  In light of the supposedly higher sex drive, do dominant women take that into consideration when they apply orgasm denial for long periods to their submissive men?


1. Probably. Though I can't really answer for all female subs. I certainly don't like orgasm control on me, even short term.
2. I think men and women are biologically different in their capabilities to orgasm. Not only do men have a refractory period, they can "run out" of cum, in my experience. So from my point of view, men, who have a limited number of times they can cum might find enjoyment in being prevented from cumming until allowed release.
3. I think the female would be ultimately be turned off by long term denial because there is nothing inhibiting their ability to orgasm (other than the top). I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well, but basically because woman has the ability to cum more than men, she may resent being restrained. I restrain my male partner's orgasms because if he uses them all, I won't be pleased. But a female partner can cum many times and still please.
4. The male supposedly has the higher drive, but I've never found that to be true. I've had a higher drive than all my partners, and it does play a big part into why I deny him. If he is selfish and masturbates, he has wasted a load that I could have used. That's the way I see it.



Kana -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 1:40:28 PM)

I'm not gonna field your questions but I will note that I have done orgasm denial for periods lasting over 6 months and it only drove her stark raving nuts. Especially when I would play her to the edge, then deny, or when I would take her and not let her culminate.



AquaticSub -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 1:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Question 1.  Do you think the number of female submissives that would be turned off by orgasm denial for either short or long periods is higher than the number of male submissives?

I honestly don't know. If I had to guess, I say that it's about the same or that slightly more women would be turned off by it.
quote:


Question 2:  If so, why?  Are the submissive men operating on a different mindset? 

My guess - and this is solely a guess with no info to back it up so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong - is that men (in general) are used to easily achieving orgasm whereas women (IME and in general) have more trouble achieving orgasm. So to deny an orgasm would seem likely to be an interesting or kinky change of pace for a male.

But, like I said, that's a complete guess and I don't think it would be all that different anyway.
quote:


Question 3:  If so, what is the mindset that allows these submissive men to endure this longer than their female counterpart without being turned off?  Especially in light of the fact that men...supposedly...are driven more by their libido than women are. 

Went into my guess above.
quote:


Question 4:  In light of the supposedly higher sex drive, do dominant women take that into consideration when they apply orgasm denial for long periods to their submissive men?

Not a clue.
quote:


I've always seen denial as one side of the coin...the other side being allowance.  These two subsets make up orgasm control.  I've never seen it stated that denial specifically means a long period of time.  I've never seen it stated that control only means denial for a short period of time.


Just want to say that this makes sense to me. [:)]



frazzle -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 2:36:47 PM)

Having to wait, ie he has control, is far different than being denied altogether.

If driven to the edge with no release all the time, i pretty soon switch off and dont get to the edge, at which point he isnt controling.

In my experience, and chatting to friends, if we arent getting release, we stop thinking about it, dont get close. If we get release we want more.



Prinsexx -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 3:16:43 PM)

A cock is easier to clamp than a clit. End of.



TreasureKY -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 5:52:50 PM)

I believe there are significant physiological and psychological differences in men and women that affect not only their physical response to sexual activity, but also their desire and ability to be aroused.

I'm one of those women who will respond to lack of stimulation, affection, and satisfaction by shutting down.  I do think that there are many areas and reasons for this... from emotional to chemical.  While I could more easily describe this process verbally (not easy to describe by any stretch of the imagination, but easier), to try to lay it all out in writing would be extremely complicated and make for a very long post.

Think evolutionary psychology, learned behavioral response, physiological variances, cardiovascular and endocrine response... testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, norepinephrine, oxytocin, etc....

What it all boils down to is that there is a delicate balance of ingredients needed for a satisfying sexual cycle for me, and a loss of any one or more ingredients for any substantial length in time will muck things up.

I wouldn't suggest that men have any less of a complicated system, but it would appear that they are more resilient to disruptions and aren't as dependent upon any one given ingredient.

So... very generally from my point of view and personal experience, I would say that a higher percentage of women would shut down, and to attribute that to merely "mindset" would be to ignore the vast array of variables that go into a balanced sexual response.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't have any idea what dominant women do.  [;)]



StrictlyKind -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 6:35:16 PM)

My default position with the submissives I've had relationships with is this: You may cum whenever and whereever you want. I just want to know about it.

It makes it FAR more entertaining when I decide to say "No you may not cum."



CaringandReal -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 7:19:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


I am curious though...above I noted that some female submissives of the danger of turning a woman off if she is not allowed to cum for a long period of time.  I know that the following questions are going to possibly cause some flak but I've had a bunch of that in the last couple of weeks anyway so what's a little more?

Question 1.  Do you think the number of female submissives that would be turned off by orgasm denial for either short or long periods is higher than the number of male submissives?



I have no idea about how other female submissives respond to this. Just the anecdotal evidence of one:

I have enjoyed and/or endured orgasm denial for months at a time. I will shut off sexually only under one circumstance: if sexual stimulation stops or is forbidden entirely. But if I'm physically excited or required to excite myself daily or every few days, to the brink, but not allowed to pass go, I stay perpetually turned on. I really enjoy that state. It makes getting an orgasm a very special thing. :)



littlewonder -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 7:48:38 PM)

for me personally I can go a very long time without ever having an orgasm and be content in my relationship...as long as I'm not constantly being aroused and teased. I've gone years without and never missed it.

But if I'm constantly aroused and teased and never allowed to orgasm either for a very long time, then I'll also fizzle out and eventually I'll just not even care at that point.

Then there's also the point where if I'm unhappy, stressed, worried, angry, I won't be able to orgasm.

I have to be in a good place in my head and in my life and relationship to really let go enough to want to even desire it.


In my experience with most men an orgasm isn't dependent on any of those. For most men it's a physical response to stimuli and not really physiological or psychological.

The very thought for those men who enjoy orgasm denial it seems to be a rush because they know it's easy for them to orgasm and so it's a game to see how long they can go without. It's a rush.






MistressDarkArt -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 7:57:36 PM)

quote:

Question 3:  If so, what is the mindset that allows these submissive men to endure this longer than their female counterpart without being turned off?  Especially in light of the fact that men...supposedly...are driven more by their libido than women are. 

Question 4:  In light of the supposedly higher sex drive, do dominant women take that into consideration when they apply orgasm denial for long periods to their submissive men?


Re: #3: According to my sub, needing/wanting an orgasm is akin to being starved of physical food and thus hungry. He focuses on behavior (i.e.: service) that might bring the possibility of the meal. Allow him orgasms too often and he gets lazy and loses sight of his submission and desire to serve. I suppose it's possible but I've never actually seen this phenomenon among women of any stripe be they vanilla, submissive, dominant; to me orgasms with a partner seem to equate more with love and connection than just a physical need to release. The more orgasms I have in that capacity the more interested I will stay, but not so with denial; I'd shut down.

Re: #4: As a domme I am a big believer in orgasm control and denial of my male subs. It's a very simple equation. Serve well and frequently the way I desire and you might get to cum. Turn lazy, inattentive and selfish; just forget about all those wonderful things I do to you that you crave so much.



sexyred1 -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 8:10:08 PM)

Hey CD,

I am sure you will not be surprised by my take on this. I don't believe in orgasm denial; it is counterproductive, at least for me.

I don't mind being teased and brought to the edge a few times, but....and this is very important...those who know me in that aspect know that if I have to get off and say, it is now or it is not going to happen, they have to let it happen.

Otherwise they are left with a very, very annoyed redhead.

I find the entire concept of denial to be boring. I believe everyone should cum as often and as hard as they can and want to.

Again, this is just me and I guess I am a self centered bitchy sub because I like to have screaming orgasms; it actually makes me more submissive to the one who created that.

And thus far, I have never had any partner who did NOT wish me to have them as often as possible.



NuevaVida -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 9:16:58 PM)

quote:

Question 1. Do you think the number of female submissives that would be turned off by orgasm denial for either short or long periods is higher than the number of male submissives??


Just my scientific wild ass guess (SWAG) but yes, I do.


quote:


Question 2: If so, why? Are the submissive men operating on a different mindset



Because I see time and again, and have known male subs, who have said they feel more submissive when craving an orgasm, and as soon as they have an orgasm, they don't feel as submissive.  I couldn't tell you why this is, but it's what I see and hear.

quote:


Question 3: If so, what is the mindset that allows these submissive men to endure this longer than their female counterpart without being turned off? Especially in light of the fact that men...supposedly...are driven more by their libido than women are.


If I had to guess (which in this case, I do), I'd say because of exactly what you said - men are more sexually driven.  So the orgasm - no matter how far off - is their carrot on a string.  Woman (totally generically speaking) are driven by emotion, and more sensitive sexually.  Deny a woman long enough and she'll shut down, sexually.  Deny a man and he'll do whatever it takes to get there. This isn't the case for everyone, of course, but just one person's humble opinion.

quote:


Question 4: In light of the supposedly higher sex drive, do dominant women take that into consideration when they apply orgasm denial for long periods to their submissive men?


I would imagine they do.

All that said, I'm perfectly OK with denial, for relatively short periods of time.  I am not allowed an orgasm without his approval, and that's typically about a week at a time.  Denial does not increase my submission, nor does it increase my libido.  It is simply a symbol of ownership.  When I am alone and thinking of him and feeling the urge, I can't do anything about, because he says I can't.  The down side is if I go too long without, I just lose interest in it.  But a week isn't too long.



domiguy -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 9:35:47 PM)

The whole thing strikes me as stupid. But so much of what transpires out here alludes me.

Why do I want to prohibit a woman from having an orgasm? Is she really gross and I am repusled by her quivering mass and elephant seal noises?




Awareness -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 9:46:24 PM)

  Dude, this is not the forum to discuss animal husbandry.



StrictlyKind -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/6/2011 10:13:49 PM)

I thought animal husbandry was a server limit!



Prinsexx -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/7/2011 1:20:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Hey CD,

I am sure you will not be surprised by my take on this. I don't believe in orgasm denial; it is counterproductive, at least for me.

I don't mind being teased and brought to the edge a few times, but....and this is very important...those who know me in that aspect know that if I have to get off and say, it is now or it is not going to happen, they have to let it happen.

Otherwise they are left with a very, very annoyed redhead.

I find the entire concept of denial to be boring. I believe everyone should cum as often and as hard as they can and want to.

Again, this is just me and I guess I am a self centered bitchy sub because I like to have screaming orgasms; it actually makes me more submissive to the one who created that.

And thus far, I have never had any partner who did NOT wish me to have them as often as possible.

I agree with the above entirely, from my submissive view.
And also I find males who have been in celibate service for long periods of time (and I know males who have been celibate as service slaves and thus so for almost an entire lifetime) don't do it for me at an intimate level. As I like to allow them to bring themselves off or bring 'em off myself. Or to have them fuck me. My bdsm is sexual and I think it's healthy. Unless of course I get into having a slave under service-celibacy for myself but that's not happened yet.
But god knows there are enough males to want to do this. I think the nature of orgasm divides the sexes. Although I can do without sex when I am not in relationship one of my assets is that I cum like a screaming banshee and I've not consented to a bdsm relationship that wanted to control this. I had enough of power over in the vanilla world.



ranja -> RE: Orgasm Denial/Orgasm Control...Some Clarity Please? (1/7/2011 1:54:00 AM)

I have no answers to the questions other than my own experience of the subject.

When my Husband had gone off me and never much even touched me let alone give me an orgasm, i never went off sex... it did not make me turn off at all. Consequently i went through times of daily wanking, but sometimes i would not even do that... still i would feel sexy and want some... i always want some unless i have just cum... that is the only time i am really not bothered

The reason why i like my orgasm to be delayed (that would be the best word really) is because i like to feel really dirty and before i have cum i can feel the dirtiest... if my Husband or myself, just gets me straight there it often feels a bit sort of flat... like it is all over too soon and even though the orgasm was nice it could have been much much better

I have heard of women who can just cum and cum and cum
i am not like that and i think most men are not like that either
i cum once, maybe twice and i like to feel really really dirty just before i do

I really do not understand why a couple would want to deny eachother an orgasm always... it seems to me that it is better to make your partner feel good, so playing with the entire concept of delaying and denial and control should be just another way to have fun



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