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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/13/2011 11:14:16 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveOwnerDave
In any case, most conservative people have left the Republican Party, as the far right took over. The far right are not conservative. They are activist, reactionary, and hateful. These are not traits of conservative people! These are not traits of Americans![/size][/font]


Quoted for truth. Conservatism, as defined by people like Buckley and Kirk, was a viewpoint of caution and skepticism, demanding empirical evidence and logic.

The Tea Party is a band of political fundamentalists.

The Tea Party is a band of naive newcomers who embrace simplistic solutions that ignore the complexity of the problems.

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/13/2011 11:18:26 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There is probably one person in this thread who knew the historical meaning of "blood libel" before some HuffPo nitwit made a stink about it. And if DomKen isnt in this thread then no one knew it.


You are quite wrong.

He knows, he did it for shits n giggles



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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/13/2011 12:48:32 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveOwnerDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
My use of the Raum Emmanuel example was to illustrate to those who seem to feel that the inflammation only comes from the right that there are plenty of examples from the left. But when we now find ourselves in a time in which a tragedy has occurred, all you hear from the pundits on the left is that...somehow...the tragedy is the right's fault. Palin put cross-hairs on different places on the map to show districts being targeted? Cries of "warfare" and "violent images". Obama, in speaking of dealing with the Republicans, states that they are the enemy and need to face payback...speaks of bringing a gun to a knife-fight. When this is pointed out as being similar in violent images, the pundits state that it is just a "display of passion and temerity and resolve". I...and others...call bullshit.

We are to believe, then, the daily multi-hour multi-channel barrage of hate radio comes from "the left"?
If you can point out anywhere that I...or several others...stated that it did, please show me.  What HAS been stated is that the left is just as guilty...if there is guilt to be had...of hateful rhetoric and behavior.
 
quote:

That this barrage has absolutely zero power on those who listen to it?
If hate radio has no effect, then why is it well funded?
Several answers here.  If you are one of those people who believes that what is stated on the radio has an effect on people, I agree.  I hear many things on the radio and on T.V. and see at the movies and read in books and magazines and newspapers that have an effect on me.  What my friends and even...sometimes...my enemies say has on effect on me.  That said...and conceded...no, I do not believe that it is any more responsible for someone shooting someone else than I believe that watching a movie advocating the assassination of G. Bush can push someone into doing so.  No, I do not believe that a twinkie can cause someone to commit murder.  No, I do not believe that the lyrics to certain rock songs can cause someone to commit murder.  This is MY argument against those...from the right or left...who would argue for censorship of such movies or video games or food or music.  But as noted earlier...when someone calls for the censorship of such movies or music or video games, it is usually the left who decries such action...citing "freedom of speech/freedom of expression".  That cuts both ways.  I've cited several examples of inflammatory rhetoric from the left.  The fact that you do not hear more of it on the radio is because such programs as Al Franken's (when he was on there) and J. Garafolo and others of their ilk on AirAmerica were not well-listened to.  Programs such as Limbaugh's and Beck's are well-funded because they appeal to a vast audience and sponsors are smart enough to recognize it.

And before I get off this part...remember that what you might think of as "hate speech" may indeed be passionate, may come across as hateful if you disagree, but if it truly were "hate speech", the perpetrators would be called into court...as they would be if they were urging their listeners to violence. 

In any case, most conservative people have left the Republican Party, as the far right took over. The far right are not conservative. They are activist, reactionary, and hateful. These are not traits of conservative people! These are not traits of Americans!

You are right...the far right AND the far left are activist, reactionary and hateful.  But those on the left tend to see many on the right as activist, reactionary, and hateful...just as those on the right tend to see in characters such as Ward Churchill, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Al Gore.  It depends on your perspective.


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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/13/2011 1:03:52 PM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There is probably one person in this thread who knew the historical meaning of "blood libel" before some HuffPo nitwit made a stink about it. And if DomKen isnt in this thread then no one knew it.

I'm willing to bet most of the jews on this thread know what it means.



I highly doubt it, despite the protests to the contrary. I'll add in DarkSteven and one wild card.



You do realise, that for example wide parts of the German population after about the 8th grade do know? It is taught in school, and you would have to sleep through a lot of history lessons to avoid knowing. Same in many European states.

As for me, I am born and raised, and do still live in the Rhineland. We have had large, and thriving Jewish populations at various times, and sadly have a history of antisemitism and pogroms. Often, among other things, justified with blood libel.
I would have to be ignorant not to know.

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/13/2011 4:32:47 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
You are right...the far right AND the far left are activist, reactionary and hateful.  But those on the left tend to see many on the right as activist, reactionary, and hateful...just as those on the right tend to see in characters such as Ward Churchill, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Al Gore.  It depends on your perspective.


I think it is noteworthy that in your comment about radical figures on the left, the best examples you come up with are people who are marginalized and have only a tiny following (Churchill and Sharpton) or so bland and mainstream as to defy the term "radical".

I mean, seriously, in what alternate universe are Jesse Jackson and Al Gore considered "radical" or dangerous or extreme? I think Jay Leno has a better shot at being a radical enemy of the state than these two milquetoasts.

But I do agree with your premise that radical and hateful figures can be found in any movement. But the thing is, movements are not always symmetrical and mirror images of each other;

It is the Right today where the radicals are in charge; what radical on the left is equal to Rush Limbaugh? Who on the left can match the radicalness, power and influence of the Glenn Beck, the Koch Brothers or Sarah Palin?
Where on the left do we hear veiled calls for armed rebellion against the government? At which leftist rally did people brandish guns? Is it the left who is openly talking about defaulting on the national debt? Or bringing guns onto the House floor? It was the Tea Party, wasn't it, that adopted the language and imagery of violent revolution? The last time any leading leftist called for violent struggle, bell bottoms were still in style.

The leading figures on the so-called "left" are people like Obama and Hillary Clinton; both a couple of cautious, moderate, consensus-seeking midle of the road career politicians. The so-called "radical" health care reform was in fact a Republican plan, warmed over.

There is in fact, not one thing these two have done that hasn't already been done by Republicans.

< Message edited by AnimusRex -- 1/13/2011 4:33:18 PM >

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/13/2011 5:14:20 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

I mean, seriously, in what alternate universe are Jesse Jackson and Al Gore considered "radical" or dangerous or extreme? I think Jay Leno has a better shot at being a radical enemy of the state than these two milquetoasts.




...in what country? The USA.

Thing is, many things make more sense when you realise that what is referred to as the centre in US domestic politics is, at best, a centre right position everywhere else.
Essentially, when discussing US politics it's best to assume that the traditional meanings of political terms are not what you're used to.
Jackson and Gore inhabit the area of the US political spectrum that, in the UK, would be occupied by people like George Galloway and the Newt Loving Mayor of London (as opposed to the Bash St Kid Mayor of London)

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 4:23:36 PM   
tweakabelle


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Was the 'blood libel' comment an innocent error or a deliberate reference? Here's one interesting perspective:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/blood-libel-the-two-words-that-spelled-trouble-for-sarah-palin-2184102.html

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 7:40:56 PM   
Wongsifu


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quote:


It is the Right today where the radicals are in charge; what radical on the left is equal to Rush Limbaugh? Who on the left can match the radicalness, power and influence of the Glenn Beck, the Koch Brothers or Sarah Palin?


That's an insult to associate Sarah Palin with guys lke Glenn Beck. That broad is like a much sexier version of GW Bush.

"I can see Russia from my window" ?? She is live material for stand up comedians. Although she is less dangerous than Beck or Limbaugh because she has the IQ of a door knob. What surprises me is that some people are ready to vote for her !!!

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 7:42:44 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

"I can see Russia from my window" ??


I'm no Palin fan, but I think that line comes from Tina Fey.

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 7:51:18 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wongsifu

"I can see Russia from my window" ??



Actually, Palin said Alaska and Russia were neighbors. Tina Fey made the crack you misquoted. Way to be wrong on your first post, Wong.



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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 8:41:17 PM   
philosophy


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"Although she is less dangerous than Beck or Limbaugh because she has the IQ of a door knob. What surprises me is that some people are ready to vote for her !!! "


"Way to be wrong on your first post, Wong. "

...maybe not that wrong........




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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 8:43:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"Although she is less dangerous than Beck or Limbaugh because she has the IQ of a door knob.




Which makes her several levels above Blowboy

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/14/2011 9:03:37 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"Although she is less dangerous than Beck or Limbaugh because she has the IQ of a door knob.




Which makes her several levels above Blowboy



....and a million levels above you.






Yay, i can lower myself to the level of US political discourse. Yay me!!!!!!!

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/15/2011 4:25:35 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Oh , you Canadians

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/15/2011 4:38:13 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wongsifu

"I can see Russia from my window" ??



Actually, Palin said Alaska and Russia were neighbors. Tina Fey made the crack you misquoted. Way to be wrong on your first post, Wong.




No, that's not all she said.

Way to be wrong on your 10,159 post.

It's starting to become a habit for you Richie.

Palin on her insight into Russian Politics

Palin On Foreign Policy

But I'll post these for you one more time in the faint hope that you'll try to see what she actually said instead of what you want to believe she said.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/15/2011 4:56:03 AM >

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/16/2011 10:57:20 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The Tea Party is a band of naive newcomers who embrace simplistic solutions that ignore the complexity of the problems.



Powerful movements are always simplistic... they are the only kind that are successful. Even if the problems are complicated being simplistic allows a concerted movement toward a goal when confusion and indecision reins.

Naïve and simplistic the movement may be but this does not lessen its impact on the politics of America, and the world, today and in the future.

Although I don’t agree with their politics I am smart enough to respect them…you should be too.

Butch

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RE: Maybe the Republican party needs a voice of sanity? - 1/16/2011 2:32:33 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

I mean, seriously, in what alternate universe are Jesse Jackson and Al Gore considered "radical" or dangerous or extreme? I think Jay Leno has a better shot at being a radical enemy of the state than these two milquetoasts.




...in what country? The USA.

Thing is, many things make more sense when you realise that what is referred to as the centre in US domestic politics is, at best, a centre right position everywhere else.
Essentially, when discussing US politics it's best to assume that the traditional meanings of political terms are not what you're used to.



So, then what you are saying is that we really are confused and you are here to set us straight.

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