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a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 9:30:26 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		A very interesting little thing has been happening lately. I have had an influx of messages from Dominant men who contact me wanting to get just a little bit closer to me.

One was saying that he has been looking for a woman like me for a long time. He identified as Top and had the word Dom in his handle. I have responded to him asking him what it was in me that he found so appealing. He replied: “Miss Angelika, I'm certainly curious about it [being a sub], willingly to explore, must confess to being a bit of a chicken though.”

Another just sent me a note telling me that I intrigued him, this one again identified as Top with the word Master in his handle, to which I responded “Well of course I did. Otherwise, why would have written?” ;)

Last night on my monthly visit to an kinky irc network, I was messaged by 5 domly dudes “kneeling before me and offering their body for my use”. I don’t cyber sex so that was moot. But I find it so curious nonetheless. I know IRC networks have a lot more players but people took the time to chose a nick with the word Dom or Lord or Master in it and then they come looking to be dominated. It would be as easy as entering the command /nick obedient`sub`boy to switch…

Those are a few examples. There are few more over the last few weeks. Comparing them one to another, I can say with a great degree of confidence that this isn’t the same person (not to mention that this isn’t all happening on the same network or via the same medium where I may go by an alternate alias).

I’m not switch. That is evident in my profile and in my introduction text. In any case, none have suggested that they would want to dominate me. So why do these men feel drawn to me? If they are switch, why are they putting on this great big Dom front? Is this some kind of overcompensation thing?

Mostly I find this very amusing. But I’m curious if other Dommes experience this. Or even if Doms get this too? Do many Dommes contact you?

I have no problems with switching, I did it for a while when I was trying to figure stuff out. For me it was a process and for others it’s a way of life. And more importantly, people most definitely have the right to redefine themselves as many times as they want/need. I just find it intriguing when people’s projected image doesn’t jive with their actions.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove
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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 9:40:48 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

So why do these men feel drawn to me?


I guess you're just irresistable.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 9:44:22 AM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I will say that I have had more titled Dom in person ask me quietly if I would session them than I have had online. But yes, to answer your question, I have had a number of males that are listed here as Doms email me with requests to please "run my nails over their flesh". I never really thought about it, just let them know that I am drawn to submissive males, and given them a polite no thank you. Sundew

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 9:49:57 AM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

A very interesting little thing has been happening lately. I have had an influx of messages from Dominant men who contact me wanting to get just a little bit closer to me.

One was saying that he has been looking for a woman like me for a long time. He identified as Top and had the word Dom in his handle. I have responded to him asking him what it was in me that he found so appealing. He replied: “Miss Angelika, I'm certainly curious about it [being a sub], willingly to explore, must confess to being a bit of a chicken though.”


This happens to me all the time LA. Studies have shown that socialized behavior often dictates perception and presentation. Hence, men are socialized to be "dominant" Often time this is not in sync with thier inner self, and so they maintain a facade of dominance. In my experience it is easy to determine if it is a facade or if they are so highly socialized that they are firmly entrenched in the dominant role.

quote:

Another just sent me a note telling me that I intrigued him, this one again identified as Top with the word Master in his handle, to which I responded “Well of course I did. Otherwise, why would have written?” ;)


We must be getting the same emails. :) I always reply with.. Tell me EXACTLY what you found so intriguing. Their answers are often quite revealing.
quote:


I’m not switch. That is evident in my profile and in my introduction text. In any case, none have suggested that they would want to dominate me. So why do these men feel drawn to me? If they are switch, why are they putting on this great big Dom front? Is this some kind of overcompensation thing?


I don't think it is about overcompensation but rather socialization. So much value is placed on gender roles and as masculine behavior as a schema in which little permission is granted to deviant from the schema. Women thankfully are now on the thrid wave of feminism and have been able to begin reshaping the paradigm for which our behavior is ascribed. The Men's movement is just now begining it's first wave, and so to answer your question about why they are drawn to you.. I would say it is because woman such as us. Proudly, and confidently embrace being true to our inner self and defining our self without the limiting restraints of what is socially expected or desireable and they wish to be able to do so themselves.

quote:


I just find it intriguing when people’s projected image doesn’t jive with their actions.
-

I don't find it to be "intriguing" anymore, but more frustrating. To me it is what often determines if I want to take the time to get to know them better. Just how self aware is someone? Granted we never stop learning or growing, unless we choose to. The fact that someone is not honest with themselves, or thier actions are in direct conflict with their professed beliefs are clear warning signs to me (not to mention major turn offs) that I should not invest much time with them, aside from that as teacher, and then only if they are willing to learn and grow.

Ms. Eden

< Message edited by MaitresseEden -- 10/3/2004 9:56:27 AM >

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 11:19:57 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		At first glance I believe what you are describing is typically a case of what is commonly referred to as HNG's just calling themselves "Doms" or "Masters" attempting to get a little something. I don't do the chatroom scene. I've been in one or two in the last year, long enough to say hello at the invitation of a friend. That's it. I simply don't have the patience or the time for them. I don't even do im much...I do email or phone. At one time, I did get quite a few emails from Doms who wanted to explore their "submissive" side. I also got emails from submissive males (with sub profiles), who also had profiles as Doms.

As a rule I will tell them I'm not interested and wish them success as they continue their search. However I made an exception with Tom. I have to tell you that on more than one occasion I took pause to wonder if I should rethink that decision. Over the course of several months it was very similar to having to take an aggressive male dog down during training, to make it unmistakably clear to him Who is in control. In this situation it was a case of "natural" vs "learned". I am naturally Dominant, and I am naturally a Woman. I have learned social behaviors and personalized them to suit me and my life/style. When he realized this, and that it wasn't a game where the rules were negotiable, he had to make a decision.

He wrote me to say he missed me. I told him to say it with roses, but that I didn't want flowers...I wanted the rose bush.

My Celtic Pride Heirloom Rose bush arrived a week ago from England with a card from him. It said, " i miss you Humbly, tommy"

I think the majority of them are looking for a score, but once in awhile there is that one who is truly seeking that connection and balance with a strong Domme. You have the energy, and they are drawn to it.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 11:40:13 AM   
Chaos


Posts: 30
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett

At first glance I believe what you are describing is typically a case of what is commonly referred to as HNG's just calling themselves "Doms" or "Masters" attempting to get a little something. I don't do the chatroom scene. I've been in one or two in the last year, long enough to say hello at the invitation of a friend. That's it. I simply don't have the patience or the time for them. I don't even do im much...I do email or phone. At one time, I did get quite a few emails from Doms who wanted to explore their "submissive" side. I also got emails from submissive males (with sub profiles), who also had profiles as Doms.


IMHO, I think you hit the nail on the head. I personally have an almost physical rejection to submitting in ANY form (which as you can probably guess has caused me no end of trouble IRL). I am not in any way an experienced Dom, but I have learned enough to be totally confident in my "top" tendencies, and to appreciate others, both male and female, who are the same.

As far as the HNG's, I am afraid they will always be with us. Here, in every chat room, in every game I see (I do a lot of Gaming, both on and offline) and on just about every "singles" site of ANY kind. They will wear any mask, don any costume, adopt any line in the outside chance of finding free sex. These are the same guys (mostly) who used to troll the Discos in the 70's, LOL. All the internet did for them is make it a lot easier to be ass clowns in disguise.

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 12:04:25 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

(I do a lot of Gaming, both on and offline)


Hey Chaos do you play pogo games? I practically live there.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to Chaos)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 12:42:40 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I appreciate all posts to date. And yes the HNGs will always be around. But I’m wondering about the ones that aren’t HNGs… the ones that are confused.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaitresseEden]
Hence, men are socialized to be "dominant" Often time this is not in sync with thier inner self, and so they maintain a facade of dominance. In my experience it is easy to determine if it is a facade or if they are so highly socialized that they are firmly entrenched in the dominant role.


I appreciate your perspective Eden. I agree with it on many levels. I told one “I think the first step for you is to change your profile to switch, write something meaningful in your description about who you are and what you are looking for. If you can't figure out what you want, you'll never get it.”

Since I made the original post, he responded: “I don't want to do that because i'm not sure if I would enjoy being a switch as of yet but I would be interested to try it once, and see if I like it. I am serious about trying it that's for sure but if I changed it now it would be too premature and than I get home and if I don't enjoy it have to change it back. You seem understanding and that's great, maybe we can chat on msn?”

Exactly what you said Eden…

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett
Over the course of several months it was very similar to having to take an aggressive male dog down during training, to make it unmistakably clear to him Who is in control. In this situation it was a case of "natural" vs "learned". I am naturally Dominant, and I am naturally a Woman. I have learned social behaviors and personalized them to suit me and my life/style. When he realized this, and that it wasn't a game where the rules were negotiable, he had to make a decision.


Oh so true! Which is one of the reasons I’m not usually into the tug of war involved in training a savage beast… err Domly one rather ;)

And ms proud… too cute in your first post. Now stay on topic! :p

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/3/2004 9:59:57 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Long, long ago I took IRC relationships seriously. I had a Dom and I was his sub, one of them. A few evenings into the relationship we were cybering and he asked me to top him. I did. I liked it. I never really respected him or any Dom on IRC again. Since then I've had contact with many other Doms who wanted me to Dom them. It doesn't seem to matter if I am a sub at the time. Though it does throw me off when I'm feeling sub. It's like being asked to stop on a dime and swim upriver. I wondered if it was just something about me.

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Bait & Switch - Adult column

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/6/2004 2:54:41 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I also have received emails from many who list themselves as Doms and Switches. In many instances they humbly ask for training and to serve Me. In a few instances, they are quite rude and suggest that they can show Me what I am missing, and they would love to Dom Me. And it is not just on this site, it is also in other arenas that this occurs. In the case of those asking to serve, I might reply asking their motivation and questioning their listing. The others I simply ignore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett


As a rule I will tell them I'm not interested and wish them success as they continue their search. However I made an exception with Tom. I have to tell you that on more than one occasion I took pause to wonder if I should rethink that decision. Over the course of several months it was very similar to having to take an aggressive male dog down during training, to make it unmistakably clear to him Who is in control. In this situation it was a case of "natural" vs "learned". I am naturally Dominant, and I am naturally a Woman. I have learned social behaviors and personalized them to suit me and my life/style. When he realized this, and that it wasn't a game where the rules were negotiable, he had to make a decision.

I think the majority of them are looking for a score, but once in awhile there is that one who is truly seeking that connection and balance with a strong Domme. You have the energy, and they are drawn to it.


I am not an Amazon, and I do not enjoy that type of play, so I am not up for the constant fight, and the Dom's or switch's constant tendency to fight and question everything and try to turn the tables. It is just not worth My time and energy.
I am glad to hear that I am not the only one. I wondered if there was a reason I was getting these types of emails. I almost feel like I am being challenged!

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/7/2004 2:58:36 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am not an Amazon, and I do not enjoy that type of play, so I am not up for the constant fight, and the Dom's or switch's constant tendency to fight and question everything and try to turn the tables. It is just not worth My time and energy.


Dusty,

That is exactly what it boils down to. I have no issues playing with a Dom as long as it’s clear that he is Dom and he doesn’t try to make me submit to him. “Be real” is all I have to say. But those head games have got to go!

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I wondered if there was a reason I was getting these types of emails. I almost feel like I am being challenged!


It is a challenge. I started this thread with some excerpts from an exchange. Let me update you. The “Doms” didn’t cut it. They got frustrated when they realised they couldn’t keep even an ounce of the control. And it was important for me to take all their control away otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to completely experience the abandon.

So I got called a bitch, which I am, and I got told in unpleasant ways to get lost, which gave me just enough incentive to block them. ;) Enough time wasted!

_____________________

On an interesting note, there has not been one response by a Male Dominant who has experienced this phenomenon with a Domme. I guess this just reinforces Eden’s theory…

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/7/2004 5:13:05 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		They came to you. If there's getting lost to be done it's on their part, not yours.

Would you do it again? Or next time a Dom male asks you to Dom him will you just tell him no?

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Bait & Switch - Adult column

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/7/2004 5:33:35 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Laura
They came to you. If there's getting lost to be done it's on their part, not yours.


I'm not sure what you are saying here... I really didn't give their irrational words any weight.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laura
Would you do it again? Or next time a Dom male asks you to Dom him will you just tell him no?


I'm not that systematic in my process. I take every situation very differently.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 7:59:42 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is no different than the weekly topic about subs getting bombarded by e-mails. People are stupid, thats a fact. People troll. As I said in another section here today. You keep trying and someone is going to bite.
I have had my fill of, "oh please dominate me e-mails " as well. My e-mails come in three types.
The alledged Doms who cannot read. The subs who want me to Dominate them. Also, the so called sister subs who just want you to be friends with their Doms so you can join their relationship.

About one in a hundred you actually get someone who has taken the time to read the profile and realizes you are only seeking like minded friends. Even half of them though think you're just saying that. Make plays on you.

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 10:49:58 AM   
Erusvi


Posts: 49
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		Disclaimer: Consider the following after pruning the HNG factor from the topic.

To my experience, this particular curiosity spans gender. I've had the pleasure of receiving the submission of more than a few dommes in my tenure in this lifestyle. I salute that kind of surrender. I think it is a very admirable thing, that someone acclimated to a position of dominance, who has an unsated curiosity for 'the other side', is able to be that true to themselves.

I'd say that it's a credit to them and a credit to your 'presence' that they would trust that submission to you. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them...

_____________________________

Schno
ErusVI
Los Angeles
Owner of dahanala
www.esenem.net
[image]http://www.esenem.net/Gallery/albums/2005_08_Savage/SM_1.thumb.jpg[/image]

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 1:31:31 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaitresseEden
The Men's movement is just now begining it's first wave...

An off-topic aside: I wish that were true, but I'm afraid that it's mostly been under your (and most people's) radar for a long time. I first started hearing about a men's movement, and men's groups, about 20 years ago. Here's a good article (now 10 years old, but still relevent) by someone who'd belonged to men's groups since the early '80s: http://www.achillesheel.freeuk.com/article15_4.html

His conclusion mirrors what I've seen -- that while some men's groups may have positive effects on members, most of them accomplish little or nothing outside of their own small circle. The scope of the movement seems very limited, and lack of agreement about even what the issues are has resulted in a fragmented movement which fights itself. The men's movement started as an offshoot of the women's movement, and had very similar beliefs and goals, but by the early '90s there were groups ranging from the Mythopoetic faction -- think Robert Bly, drumming and rituals -- to the militant Father's Rights and antifeminist groups, to the religious groups like Promise Keepers. It's hard to even say that there is a men's movement anymore, there are more like 5-8 of them, which, taken as a whole, have no uniting principles or coherent direction. The feminist men's groups still exist, but not on much of a scale. The Mythopoetics got to be huge in the mid-to-late '90s, but now seem to be in stagnation and decline -- after you give yourselves a belated rite of passage, what then? There aren't any issues to motivate guys. Circumcision? Battered men? Gimme a break. Rape of men in prisons, and the relatively high level of male homelessness are real issues, but involve expensive changes which are out of political vogue.

Anyway, I hope nobody's got high expectations for some sort of revolution arising out of men's movements. The male feminists were the first generation, and the Mythopoetics the second, but I haven't seen any sign of a third generation showing up to fill the void, or even of an issue which might motivate a third generation. The white American male is the most privileged and complacent person in the world, and there are some good shows on cable tonight.

Usual caveat: everything above is biased and dubious.

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-- Bertrand Russell

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 1:43:14 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

On an interesting note, there has not been one response by a Male Dominant who has experienced this phenomenon with a Domme. I guess this just reinforces Eden’s theory…


Milady A.-

[oops- was that my cue?]<g>

I'd say that out of the three dominant ladies I have had romances with, their approch covered the spectrum-

M. J., who started informally as a protoge, became very submissive with me, although we never really discussed it, and I was careful not to be overtly 'dommy' with her. I have thought that simply, I was one of the only safe places in her life at that time, and it was largely backlash from trying to be queen bitch domina all day, all week.

Madame and I simply fell together like raindrops, giving and taking in equal measure, with love and respect for each other.

A. was a different story. Orginally, she came to me seeking some mentoring, but soon lauched a campaign to flip me, which didn't work very well. She has disappeared from the scene locally, but not before speaking of me with some distain. Overall, I'd have rather spent the time golfing.

That is about the extent of my interaction with Dommes, outside of normal, respectful, 'professional courtesy' sort of exchanges, and various friendships. I have had a few interactions that felt a bit like my experiance with A., but tend to aviod any such situation.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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-there is no remission without blood-

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 4:03:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erusvi
Disclaimer: Consider the following after pruning the HNG factor from the topic.


Thank you! I've been trying to get people to drop that angle for a while. HNG's is not what this post was about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erusvi
To my experience, this particular curiosity spans gender. I've had the pleasure of receiving the submission of more than a few dommes in my tenure in this lifestyle. I salute that kind of surrender. I think it is a very admirable thing, that someone acclimated to a position of dominance, who has an unsated curiosity for 'the other side', is able to be that true to themselves.

I'd say that it's a credit to them and a credit to your 'presence' that they would trust that submission to you. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them...


I agree with that statement wholeheartedly. I'm not so much discrediting them. I guess I'm just perplexed about their approach to it all. It's almost like they want to but they can't bring themselves to it. I’m simply trying to understand that “torn” mindset.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 4:10:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

topcat
Milady A.-

[oops- was that my cue?]<g>

I'd say that out of the three dominant ladies I have had romances with, their approch covered the spectrum-


Yeah it was your cue. I figured you might have a thing or two to say on the topic ;)

I can totally identify with M.J. Been there, done that. It does a body good now and then!!

"A.", which for our readers, was not this Lady A, sounds very much like the type of men I've been encountering online.

I have bottomed before and I'm sure I will again in the future but what I can't stand is that little mind game where they think they are going to turn the tables on me. I've had that happen RL as well and it's not so fun. It can even get dangerous. If I bottom to someone, it will be a conscious decision with a sadist who can keep his/her "Dommy" in check and on my terms.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: a sheep in Wolf's clothing - 10/8/2004 7:42:31 PM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

I have bottomed before and I'm sure I will again in the future but what I can't stand is that little mind game where they think they are going to turn the tables on me. I've had that happen RL as well and it's not so fun. It can even get dangerous. If I bottom to someone, it will be a conscious decision with a sadist who can keep his/her "Dommy" in check and on my terms.


Schno, as always it is such a pleasure to see you! I visited your site and enjoyed every moment.

Back on topic; I have never had the experience of actually being a bottom to anyone, however I have had intimate relationship experiences, albeit brief, with dominant males. The relationship ultimately suffers (and did fataly) when the Dom gets the notion to dominate me (those little mind games). I've never really given it any more thought than to acknowledge that a relationship with a dominant male (in a dominant position) simply doesn't work for me. After numerous conversations with that beautiful blonde maniac, and reading over a period of time about the Madame/Topcat relationship, I can at least consider how, with the right dominant partner, the experience has the potential to be very beneficial, in a maintaining optimum balance sort of way. Just a stray thought.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 20
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